Certainly seems possible that Thoresen may have known KQ, given his interests and the pair of them both being high society. Who would know? KQ’s kids, I guess – but I doubt they’d be inclined to give out any information at this point. Did the Chronicle or the Examiner have something like society pages back then? News about the rich and famous? A long shot – but maybe there’s an old journalist still around who would know if KQ and Thoresen traveled in the same circles.

Thoresen is a Norwegian surname, by the way. Possibly used in the other Nordic countries as well.

I didn’t know anyone named Thoresen associated with kq but anything is possible.
Qvale was 5"9′ tall 160#. Fouke told me he would allow +/- 50 lbs. due to the parka. Hartnell said he may have overestimated Z’s weight in an intervi1ew with a producer for COTC. Don’t know shoe size.

I didn’t know anyone named Thoresen associated with kq but anything is possible.
Qvale was 5"9′ tall 160#. Fouke told me he would allow +/- 50 lbs. due to the parka. Hartnell said he may have overestimated Z’s weight in an intervi1ew with a producer for COTC. Don’t know shoe size.

Thoresen and Qvale lives probably 7-8 blocks from each other and were both big car guys, so it’s possible that they knew each other. I also wonder if Xenophon Anthony knew Qvale.

Hi-

Ah, but there is something that ties all the crimes together. One of the top behavioral profilers in the world believes these are all crimes committed by a power-assertive killer. That is a person who is powerful, knows the taste of power and wants more and more of it-power that is limited only by the bounds of the killer’s own imagination. The reason it is your perception that there is nothing to ties the crimes together is that you are not (presumably) a forensic psychologist and therefore unable to see the common thread that links all the crimes together. But it is there…

Mike

So, I noticed that you do this quite a bit: the profile identifies Qvale is the Z, then you offer the profile as evidence that Qvale is Z. That is circular reasoning. Walter is not infallible. His profile is not gospel. His profile is as good as the facts and assumptions upon which it is based. You need actual facts and evidence to prove that Qvale is the killer. Pointing back to the profile proves nothing because the profile is what led you to Qvale in the first place. The closing thing to a fact that you have to identify KQ as Z is Lindsey Robbins’ sort of ID. It wasn’t a definitive ID because I recall him saying, "I am not saying that Qvale was the guy because I would never say that, but …" So, that isn’t even an identification placing KQ at Washington and Cherry at the night of the murder. Without that, the rest is pure speculation.

A better question is why does Walter think Z is a wealthy person? My understanding, correct me if I am wrong, is that he thought a wealthy person would have the time to hunt victims and the wherewithal to commit the murders. I am not sure that a wealthy person is the only type of individual that fits that bill. Anyone with a job that required lots of "in the field" travel would also qualify. I can think of a construction or building inspector or law enforcement of some kind. A surveyor would also come to mind.

Hi-

Vince is a cop and not a profiler. The one thing I wish to correct about his take on my evidence is that Richard Walter always points out (and you can find references to this on the Net) that over 70% of major cases are tried and won on the type of circumstantial evidence I have amassed against KQ. He believes that KQ fits the power-assertive profile of Z and that my evidence is strong enough to prove that KQ was Z. Of course, the police believe that blood is red, the grass is green and the sky is blue. They want DNA, prints and handwriting. Sure they do. But sometimes you can’t get what you want (especially when the police refuse to investigate KQ and refuse to treat him like they would you and me). And circumstantial evidence can be strong enough to get a conviction.

KQ looked like the sketch, lived down the street from one of the crime scenes, was spoken to by the police after the Stine murder, wrote to me on Monarch sized paper, was an attention seeker on a large scale as far back as the 1940s, and the dates of his mother’s death and father’s birth match Z murder dates. It goes on. Norse references, ties to the UK, made misleading statements to me repeatedly at out 2006 face to face meeting, etc.

It is hard for me to tell where he ends and Z begins.

Mike

"It is hard for me to tell where he ends and Z begins." This statement is quite troubling for me. First of all, I am the most critical of my own arguments because I am well aware that I can be VERY wrong. Walter is wrong if he thinks that the type of evidence that you have adduced is sufficient to support a conviction for multiple murders beyond a reasonable doubt. You can’t place Qvale at any crime scene. You can place him a few block away, but he lives there, so that is of little value. It seems to me that you count the hits but ignore the misses. Major misses include the fact that Qvale can’t be tied to one Zodiac letter, has no background in cryptography, no background in engineering, and appears to be too old to start a career as a serial killer. Where are the other bodies throughout his life? Do you expect me to believe that he embarks on a serial murder spree at 49 and quits at 50? That fits exactly no known serial killers in history. The fact that his mother and father’s birth dates match Z murder dates is probably coincidental. It assumes that Zodiac had control over the days he killed. Do we know that? He could have went out hunting on a given day but not found a victim. Let’s assume he goes to LHR on Dec. 20, 1968, but three cars are there. Does he still commit the murders? I doubt it. How many times did he need to stalk that turnout before he found a car there at the right time? We don’t know.

Monarch paper was sold throughout the state of CA. I have used Monarch paper. My dad wrote on Monarch paper. My dad lived in SF during the Zodiac crimes spree and ran a gas station where he fixed cars. My dad looks like the PH sketch. Whoa! My dad is Zodiac!!!! See what I did there? These facts don’t exclusively point to Qvale.

On a general note, for me the following is a simple but important question:

Why did Z opt to strike in Presidio Heights? Was it simply location? Good place to strike, as it was guaranteed to boost his notoriety (crazy killer on the prowl in rich part of town, etc.)?

Or did he have – in some shape or form – a definite connection to PH?

To me, trying to imagine how Z may have reasoned, it doesn’t seem like the most obvious thing to do: Get into a cab, instruct the driver to take him to a residential area, smack in the middle of who knows how many potential witnesses. No – the most obvious thing to do is to get into a cab and have the driver take you to a place which offers more privacy before you pull the trigger. His notoriety was bound to get a huge boost anyway – simply from striking in SF, moving his murderous campaign to the big city. In terms of notoriety the victim is more important than the location: Z didn’t murder a high and mighty resident of PH. Yes, it would likely be noticed that he struck in a wealthy part of town rather than the opposite, but his victim was still a cab driver, not a banker.

It’s obvious why he chose to kill a cabbie – Paul Stine was an easy target. Just like the kids he had previously attacked. But it is not so obvious why he opted to strike where he did. He could have chosen a more suitable location in my opinion, which would have made the murder easier to pull off. And I think the latter aspect was important to Z. He went for easy targets – that’s consistent throughout.

So, in my opinion it is not unreasonable to suggest that PH was chosen because it offered something specific, something a different (and otherwise better) location did not offer.

He gets out of the cab and walks north on Cherry. And then he turns east. That’s perhaps the most interesting, pardon the pun, turn of events in the whole case.

I think Zodiac killed in PH as a way to say to the population in SF, "You can’t hide from me even in your richest, most secure enclave. I will find you." I think he was trying to make a statement that his reach was infinite.

Hi-

I appreciate being called "royalty" but believe me, for years after the 2002 ABC show people did everything they could to make me feel anything but royal. MB folks trashed my research and for good measure mocked me personally in dirty little private chat rooms. Urged on by supporters like retired VPD Detective Jim Dean, I never gave up believing in my facts even in the face of the DNA because there were too many interesting things about KQ. It took years but I now have a retired Insp. from SFPD calling my work "compelling." That is a far cry from 2002, when SFPD Insp. Kelly Carroll called me a "wacko." Sometimes the tortoise wins the race…

The reason I am sensitive to unsubstantiated speculation is that for years I lived with the threat of a libel suit, so I was very careful to document everything I said.

Mike

If I had been Qvale’s lawyer, I would have advised against suing you for libel or defamation. If he is Z, the lawsuit gives you the right to discovery, the very last thing he wants. If he isn’t, then it just gives oxygen to your claims. Plus, he is arguably a public figure, which means that he would need to prove that you acted with knowledge that your claims are false or reckless disregard for the truth. I doubt he ever would have sued you.

As to whether you deserve respect or credit for your theories, I would say that your work is innovative and some of the most creative I have seen. I just don’t think that anyone could have solved this case with the evidence available. Now, if Lindsey, Rebecca, and Trevor all IDed Qvale in 2003, then maybe we have something. SFPD could have gotten a warrant for Qvale’s fingerprints. If they matched the Stine prints, I am not sure how Qvale explains that away. My guess is that if all three kids ID Qvale, the police ask him for an interview and ask him to take a polygraph. If he passes the polygraph, case is closed. If he fails, a grand jury is convened, even without a fingerprint match. Then, it comes down to whether a grand jury has faith in a 35-year-old ID. Your guess is as good as mine. I will note that many people didn’t believe Christine Blasey Ford when she said Brett Kavanaugh tried to sexually assault her. She wasn’t 50 plus feet away from him on a dark night. So…

Hi-

For the record, I’ve never contended that the mere fact that he never sued me proves anything. I have lots of other proof for my ideas, though.

Mike

No, but the fact that he cooperated with you and ABC News is compelling. He had no reason to do so. It’s not like he was going to say anything to deter you. Be honest, what could he have said that would change your mind? Other than producing a passport that shows he was out of the country for the Stine murder, what would you have accepted? The fact that he was willing to talk to you suggest to me that he was a naive, honest guy. He probably thought that his charming, warm personality would persuade you that he wasn’t a killer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujxg2Olsekc&index=1&list=UUdcMVtGcqCUtB7IKV6g70Lw

Remember, Repetto’s statements come some 12 years after KQ was supposedly "ruled out" by DNA. Repetto knows the case (since he had it in the 1990s) and told me that the 2002 DNA cannot be reproduced–reproducing your results is one of the hallmarks of good science. SFPD knows that DNA isn’t worth the paper it is printed on. Vince met with me for three hours NYC in January 2012 showed my binder to SFPD brass after that but since KQ essentially ran the police investigations with his money (i.e., going back to the Napa So in 2000, continuing with the Solano SO in 2001 and then SFPd in 2012, they apparently could not investigate him without his permission), nobody in LE ever got to ask him the same questions I did in 2006. Those are the questions in response to which he lied to me after inviting me to SF to "prove that I had the wrong person."

Mike

The most interesting this about this clip is how radically Repetto changed the subject from KQ to ‘where are you folks all from?’!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujxg2Olsekc&index=1&list=UUdcMVtGcqCUtB7IKV6g70Lw

Remember, Repetto’s statements come some 12 years after KQ was supposedly "ruled out" by DNA. Repetto knows the case (since he had it in the 1990s) and told me that the 2002 DNA cannot be reproduced–reproducing your results is one of the hallmarks of good science. SFPD knows that DNA isn’t worth the paper it is printed on. Vince met with me for three hours NYC in January 2012 showed my binder to SFPD brass after that but since KQ essentially ran the police investigations with his money (i.e., going back to the Napa So in 2000, continuing with the Solano SO in 2001 and then SFPd in 2012, they apparently could not investigate him without his permission), nobody in LE ever got to ask him the same questions I did in 2006. Those are the questions in response to which he lied to me after inviting me to SF to "prove that I had the wrong person."

Mike

The most interesting this about this clip is how radically Repetto changed the subject from KQ to ‘where are you folks all from?’!

That doesn’t surprise me. I am sure he liked his retirement check. KQ would sue his ass off if Repetto accused him without evidence. And while Mike accuses me of defending Qvale, he was a pillar of the community. You don’t accuse men of that stature with a "maybe" from an eyewitness who saw him 30 plus years ago. Whether it is fair or not, it is true that there are two very different justice systems in this country. Look at how much evidence they had against O.J.: his DNA at the scene, the victims’ DNA along with his own DNA on his clothes at his house, a witness who saw O.J. a block from the crime scene near the time of the murders, and a long, long history of O.J. terrorizing and abusing his ex wife. If that couldn’t convict him, what makes you think you could convict Qvale with a 30-year-old witness ID and some circumstantial evidence regarding Norse connections in Zodiac letters? Please!

Hi,

You can say whatever you want. My opinion is in my book. The profile fits one person that I know of the 3000 developed over time. Which other of the 3000 suspects fits it? I use the profile to say that KQ fits the profile, not that it proves he was Z. I developed KQ before there was a Richard Walter. You have no idea what you are talking about. Get your facts straight. If you want to now say, "Oh. So Walter must have tailored the profile to fit your suspect, if it came after you developed KQ." Go for it. Find Walter and duke it out with him. But before you do, check out the traits of a power-assertive. They match what people had been saying about Zodiac for years before Walter came along (aloof, condescending, superior, arrogant, needs to boast about his crimes), which is what makes me think it is accurate.

Hi,

You can say whatever you want. My opinion is in my book.

Well said. It’s your opinion. You don’t have any evidence that could be presented in court to convict Qvale. That is my point. Was he the Zodiac? Maybe. I tend to think that his efforts to cooperate with police, you, and ABC News thwart the notion of consciousness of guilt. Guilty people typically don’t offer fingerprints and DNA. I also doubt his involvement in the crimes because he seemed to have a full schedule from his businesses, a great deal of hobbies that sucked even more of his time, and appears to have been quite old to begin a career as a serial killer. But, I will admit that I could be wrong.

You don’t have any evidence that could be presented in court to convict Qvale. That is my point. Was he the Zodiac? Maybe. I tend to think that his efforts to cooperate with police, you, and ABC News thwart the notion of consciousness of guilt. Guilty people typically don’t offer fingerprints and DNA.

That’s why I’ve been skeptical of Qvale, too. Even if he thought the police probably didn’t have Z’s DNA or prints, it would have taken balls of steel to make that play. And for what? The DNA and prints came back negative, and there are still Zodiac sleuths betting on Qvale, but obviously, if they came positive it would have been all over.

That’s why I’ve been skeptical of Qvale, too. Even if he thought the police probably didn’t have Z’s DNA or prints, it would have taken balls of steel to make that play. And for what? The DNA and prints came back negative, and there are still Zodiac sleuths betting on Qvale, but obviously, if they came positive it would have been all over.

Right, he could never know what information the police didn’t release or what misinformation they might have put out.

The profile you have of Zodiac is pretty poor. As an element of his personality, outstanding. But not what you have.