If x was z..chances are not to great he would have much blood on him..ive said before forward blood splatter is usually a mist….a second
shirt..a second jacket…we shall never know..no cop would mess with a rich old man when he was looking for a suspect who just shot a guy….whats in the sfpd file..thats the question i want answered..we shall probably know in 2231

Yes there are hurdles with x…but rule out cjb an berryessa and x looks plausible…

You just cannot explain that one away.

You probably can, actually, because the time frame for PH isn’t written in stone by any stretch.

Pelissetti’s accounts of when he actually encountered the dog walker are all over the place. What we do know is that he didn’t breathe down Z’s neck. Z was roughly at the intersection (Cherry/Jackson) when Pelissetti arrived at the scene. He then spent some time talking to the kids, getting on the radio, etc. He then cautiously moved north on Cherry – on foot.

Fouke on his part never went back to the encounter point – he drove towards Arguello and round the back to the Julius K area, assuming that Z had escaped into the park.

There is nothing we know for a fact which makes it technically impossible for KQ – as Z – to get to his house, fetch his dog and reappear on the street in time for the Pelissetti encounter. KQ/Z could have ditched his shuffling lope and entered sprint mode as soon as Fouke was out of sight – and the distance from 3712 to the KQ residence isn’t great.

Is it likely? Not really. Is it impossible? Not as far as I can tell.

Holding the desktop against KQ won’t do either, IMO.

I won’t get into the tired old tirades again, it’s enough to say that we don’t know for a fact that Z had anything to do with it. It’s a contested and controversial piece of evidence.

Holding the desktop against KQ won’t do either, IMO.

I won’t get into the tired old tirades again, it’s enough to say that we don’t know for a fact that Z had anything to do with it. It’s a contested and controversial piece of evidence.

The state of CA experts think it was Z,as does SFPD, and seemingly the FBI….if one puts any weight in their opinions. If Z didn’t write the desktop, then connecting MrX to Riverside is not important, but just in case, backers of MrX as Z, are quick to point out that he was at the Riverside races that weekend

Like I said – not doing that "Shimoda versus Sherwood" dance again, it leads to nowhere.

Whether you question the desktop or not comes down to many factors – including what emphasis you put on handwriting analysis as anything resembling science.

However, I don’t have to deny that Z wrote the poem in order for my KQ point to stand – I only have to claim that it hasn’t been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Z wrote it.

SFPD say (said, at least) that Z did Riverside, the whole package. Other jurisdictions clearly disagree in various ways. Point being that from a neutral point of view, KQ could be Z without ever having set foot in the RCC library, so that particular point can’t be used against him conclusively.

I don’t think KQ was Z either – I’m just trying to be fair about this.

Watching the This is the Zodiac Speaking last night, one thing that does interest me ….. in his 911 call, the Zodiac correctly identified a Karmann-Ghia. I assume that was a rare car. IT’s not he correctly identified a Ford Mustang. How many people in California could identify a Karmann-Ghia in 1969?

Just to add, it seems to my lightly read mind that Z had a pretty decent head start on Pelisetti. And it would be possible to lay out his clothes, have the dog on a leash waiting at the door, etc. if he had planned it.

But yes, it would be a very tight time frame either way.

Watching the This is the Zodiac Speaking last night, one thing that does interest me ….. in his 911 call, the Zodiac correctly identified a Karmann-Ghia. I assume that was a rare car. IT’s not he correctly identified a Ford Mustang. How many people in California could identify a Karmann-Ghia in 1969?

Good point. I think Welsh Chappie, Mike and others have brought this up before, but it hasn’t been discussed in a while. It’s yet another Pro.

I try to figure out Z’s motives for doing what he did, and look at what ties all the crimes. Maybe I’m reading to much into it, but besides the murders themselves, and the follow-up letters, the only thing that links the crimes are that they involve cars. I know some people like to make a big deal about a water connection, and Penn got people looking up what a radian is, but they are tenuous ties.

And maybe I make too much of that letter KQ wrote to The Chronicle, but that letter manifests Z’s most plausible motives to me: to get the public in a panic and to belittle LE. It also predicts a murder in his neighborhood, and is sighned, concerned CITIZEN.

Just to add, it seems to my lightly read mind that Z had a pretty decent head start on Pelisetti. And it would be possible to lay out his clothes, have the dog on a leash waiting at the door, etc. if he had planned it.

But yes, it would be a very tight time frame either way.

Yep – that’s about it. Not technically impossible.

Might add too that how much blood he actually had on him comes into play here too, if we’re staying in hypothetical mode: If there wasn’t much blood, he could have just put on a trenchcoat (or whatever would have served the purpose), grabbed the dog and strolled back outside (I don’t think I’ve ever seen a description of what KQ was wearing that night, as per Pelissetti).

As soon as Z rounded the corner, the Kids came out and started walking towards the cab, and Palisetti intercepted them as they were a few feet from the car. He stopped them and ordered them back in and went around the corner after Z. I am thinking he was only a minute or two behind Z. Remember, along the way, Z was also witnessed by Fouke. He wasn’t running. If anything, Z probably slowed down as not to look nervous, so i think that would have made it less likely that MrX would have time to change his clothes and get his dog

Pelissetti proceeded cautiously after Z, though. And the entire Fouke episode didn’t last longer than it took Fouke to roll past Z (if we go by what Fouke himself says). We don’t know what Z did after Fouke was out of sight – but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that he didn’t keep strolling leisurly along at that point, regardless of who he was.

Assuming Z was KQ, he finds himself outside 3712 as Fouke vanishes. He then hurries (could even have made a run for it) past the intersection (Maple/Jackson) – and he’s practically home. It’s not a long distance he needs to cover. Meanwhile Pelissetti meets up with Fouke on Cherry (going by the most accepted version of events). In other words, Pelissetti is still on Cherry when Z/KQ starts on the final stretch. And Pelissetti keeps moving cautiously, north on Cherry, east on Jackson – he doesn’t rush after Z but takes time to check out the driveways along the route, not wanting to be ambushed (all this according to his own statements).

I maintain that it’s possible for KQ/Z to pull off this dog walker stunt. Whether it’s likely that he actually did so is an entirely different question.

Motive. It is hard to understand why someone who seemingly has it all and is living the American dream would put it all in jeopardy for no apparent reason.

Look at Robert Durst, a real estate heir and convicted murderer suspected of being a serial killer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Durst

Even immense wealth and privilege cannot contain an overwhelming desire to kill.

I myself believe the Zodiac killed Stine because he went past his dropoff point which put him further from the pedestrian entrance he was going to walk through into the
Presidio. This pissed him off. I think Zodiac demanded him to back up and Stine so no or ignored him. Zodiac might have been high on drugs and might have also had a
conversation during the ride about the Zodiac Killer. Zodiac would also have been irritated if he thought Stine was trying to juice his fare. After looking at Stines driver placard on the dashboard, seeing that Stines first name was ‘PAUL" this irritated him even more so he shot him. I think Paul is the Zodiac’s first name

Zodiac is proven to be attracted to "Pauls" for some reason

Respectfully

I myself believe the Zodiac killed Stine because he went past his dropoff point which put him further from the pedestrian entrance he was going to walk through into the
Presidio. This pissed him off. I think Zodiac demanded him to back up and Stine so no or ignored him. Zodiac might have been high on drugs and might have also had a
conversation during the ride about the Zodiac Killer. Zodiac would also have been irritated if he thought Stine was trying to juice his fare. After looking at Stines driver placard on the dashboard, seeing that Stines first name was ‘PAUL" this irritated him even more so he shot him. I think Paul is the Zodiac’s first name

Zodiac is proven to be attracted to "Pauls" for some reason

Respectfully

You’re saying the Zodiac had an escape route planned into the Presidio – except he wasn’t planning to commit a crime?

I have waded through the suspects and to me it is clear that KQ has the most circumstantial evidence tying him to this case. I am still open to the idea that KQ had nothing to do with it, but out of all the POIs that have been offered up over the years, he’s been the most intriguing, especially in terms of being driven by publicity.

Having just finished Mike R’s book I have to agree with this statement. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence, which is to be expected at this point in time, but it’s some of the strongest when taken as a whole. One of the most striking things in the book is the profile of Zodiac as a Power-Assertive killer – it has often been speculated why the act of killing itself seemed almost secondary to Zodiac, just a piece of the puzzle. This particular profile answers that question well: the whole game was a power play and the killing was just one element of it. I’ve always found it odd that people dismiss a suspect because he is rich and successful (the implication being that he wouldn’t risk his lifestyle) considering it is now widely accepted that psychopathy is more prominent in these people than the rest of the population, and that excessive risk-taking is a trait of both psychopaths and the wildly-successful.
I also found Mike’s theories on the Halloween symbol, related Norse links, and the bomb maps to have a lot of merit but I shall find a more appropriate thread for those discussions.
Regarding significant dates – I understand the implications of the chance elements of date confluence, but finding these links can surely only add weight to a case, at worst can be ignored. But really I would put the dates quite low down on the list of significant findings available in Mike’s book. I highly recommend it to anyone who is yet to read it.