I can only attest to the costume that was put in my car in Napa Sept 28th or 29th 1969.
The hood was made from a paper sack and painted with something flat black, so it looked as if it was connected to the poncho part that had the Zodiac’s logo on it. All of the drawings that I nave seen are somewhat close to what I found in my car. But none were exactly like what it really looked like. It was not bumpy looking on top it was flat and had four sharp corners, it was straight up and down ( Not like material could ever do without wires holding it that way). The logo in most drawings is much larger than what I saw , the one I had was only about three inches across. Everything about the costume was pretty simply made except the logo, that would have taken the most time to do.
I have put the copy I made on a few times and I can say it was uncomfortable, it didn’t breathe, so it became very hot pretty fast! The clip on glasses is what kept it in place , so when his head turned the hood would as well. They were attached to the clear glasses underneath the hood making it very secure. I doubt he would have made another one like that to use in any other crimes.

Zodiac thrived on instilling fear , I believe he thought that by now everyone knew about Zodiac and would recognize his logo. But that was not true , because neither Bryan or Cecelia recognized it. Neither did my neighbor or myself when we saw it in my car, we both thought it was a early Halloween costume for a early party and who ever put it there was drunk and thought my car was his? The car was parked at a bar just off of the Napa/ Vallejo highway.

It was Ken Narlow’s belief that Zodiac wore the costume , because that crime was being filmed for a snuff film, or for him to watch over and over again.

It has been said that there was only one set of foot prints at the crime scene, so there could not have been someone with a camera off in the distance.

I can’t fathom that, because we know that there were many people who were at that crime scene , like all of the detectives, the couple from the resort who comforted Cecelia, the ranger Bill White, the ambulance drivers, plus Bryan and Cecelia’s foot prints. One set of prints is impossible, but only one set of wing walkers, sure.

I can only attest to the costume that was put in my car in Napa Sept 28th or 29th 1969.
The hood was made from a paper sack and painted with something flat black, so it looked as if it was connected to the poncho part that had the Zodiac’s logo on it. All of the drawings that I nave seen are somewhat close to what I found in my car. But none were exactly like what it really looked like.

Sandy, don’t you think it’s possible what was left in your car was a copy of the Zodiac mask, or perhaps a "test version" he didn’t use? I ask that because I believe Hartnell said it was one piece, made from cloth.

It was Ken Narlow’s belief that Zodiac wore the costume , because that crime was being filmed for a snuff film, or for him to watch over and over again.

It has been said that there was only one set of foot prints at the crime scene, so there could not have been someone with a camera off in the distance.

I can’t fathom that, because we know that there were many people who were at that crime scene , like all of the detectives, the couple from the resort who comforted Cecelia, the ranger Bill White, the ambulance drivers, plus Bryan and Cecelia’s foot prints. One set of prints is impossible, but only one set of wing walkers, sure.

I’ve never thought much of the idea he filmed the attack, but a couple of things have made me think it’s possible. One, I have only recently learned that what Collins said about Cecelia watching him approach was bogus. I’m not sure exactly what she saw or what she said but apparently she didn’t tell any of it to Collins, so we don’t really know what he was doing before the attack.

Another thing, the three girls at the beach said they saw that guy, if he was Zodiac, peeking at them from behind the trees. Could be he was setting up a camera with the intent of attacking them and decided against it. Some of those old cameras were pretty small, he could have placed one in the crotch of a tree or something. It’s possible he did that with Hartnell and Cecelia.

I don’t really think he did but I am open to the possibility.

Curious Cat quote:
Sandy, don’t you think it’s possible what was left in your car was a copy of the Zodiac mask, or perhaps a "test version" he didn’t use? I ask that because I believe Hartnell said it was one piece, made from cloth.

It did look like one piece when it was put together. If you read other reports given by Hartnell, he said it looked like a" paper sack". He also said he was able to see the killers jacket collar. There is no way he would be able to see the jacket collar if it were one solid piece. ( That alone proves it had to be in two parts. )

The poncho part of that costume had what I thought looked like spots of mud on it, blood on black cotton material looks like mud.( I didn’t know that at that time.)

In order for there to be blood on the costume put in my car, it had to be worn during the stabbings. There was one spot that was a unusual color on a small part of the white logo. It was as if he had eaten a hamburger or hot dog and some mixture of ketchup and mustered dropped onto the logo? It was a little smaller than the size of a dime, on the right side of the logo.

He also said he was able to see the killers jacket collar. There is no way he would be able to see the jacket collar if it were one solid piece. ( That alone proves it had to be in two parts. )

Hmmm, yeah, true.

The poncho part of that costume had what I thought looked like spots of mud on it, blood on black cotton material looks like mud.( I didn’t know that at that time.)

Yeah, dried blood gets a reddish brown look to it, even outright brown depending on the surface it’s on. I know, I’ve cleaned up plenty of it when I worked for a Veterinarian years ago.

I’ve heard somewhere that the glasses were doubled, as if it appeared Z was hearing glasses on the outside of the hood and under the hood. Was this person trying to make the glasses a identifiable part of his appearance while wanting to be able to have some vision?

I’ve heard somewhere that the glasses were doubled, as if it appeared Z was hearing glasses on the outside of the hood and under the hood. Was this person trying to make the glasses a identifiable part of his appearance while wanting to be able to have some vision?

From what I know you are correct ,they were what is called clip on glasses. When a person has prescription glasses and needs to protect their eyes from the sun ,instead of paying for two pair of glasses they get what is called clip on sunglasses, that attached to the prescription glasses. His glasses under the hood and the clip on’s on the outside, held the hood in place.
I did my own experiment with and without using the clip on’s, there is no way he could have turned his head without those holding the hood in place. Cecelia was the one who noticed that the Zodiac had regular glasses under the hood. Bryan was able to notice the brown hair under the hood and the jacket collar.

Has anyone heard the I Heart Radio Monster Pod cast episode 11 about the Zodiac case the other day? If not, it was the best of the series so far, very informative! A hand print expert spoke about the Zodiac’s prints and how she eliminated Larry Kane as the person who left prints on Hartnell’s car door. Listen carefully about one of those prints having a scar , that sounds like it is a match to one of the bloody prints left in Stine’s cab?

I believe there are 4 more episodes left, Tom V introduced himself at the end of number 11 and will continue on with the next episodes. I was sitting next to Tom and Angie, so I will be saying a few words about the case as well.

We had a good turn out at a restaurant in Vallejo for the interviews on Dec 20th, we were there mainly for the 50th anniversary of Betty Lou Jensen and David A Faraday. In spite of the death threats made to all of us going the crime scene.

Wearing clip on sunglasses tells me he wore RX glasses in the first place, or why would you even bother to have them? Just for the special occasion of dressing up at the lake? I don’t think so. I think we can establish he wore glasses, and definitely needed them to see and get around. I know without my glasses, there’s no way I could see anything.

He wore the outfit imo for multiple reasons. I’m sure one was to disguise himself. I think another was to live out a fantasy, which imo, a fantasy such as this belongs to someone who can be delusional.
Maybe just me, but I find the entire scene at LB is something right out of a comic book. Not saying it is in a comic, but definitely a comic book scenario material.

Wearing clip on sunglasses tells me he wore RX glasses in the first place, or why would you even bother to have them? Just for the special occasion of dressing up at the lake? I don’t think so. I think we can establish he wore glasses, and definitely needed them to see and get around. I know without my glasses, there’s no way I could see anything.

That is quite a small but striking observation. It would seem to support the idea that he wore glasses in everyday life. I mean whilst it’s not impossible that he wore them as part of his disguise, it would seem less likely, or somehow more oblique to include a detail as specific as a pair of clip-on shades. It seems to me that use of clip-on shades is something that is only on the periferals of most peoples awareness. I mean we’ve all seen them, but unless you really wear glasses regularly it’s just not something that would occur to you. So the chances of an individual with good eyesight assembling a disguise that included a pair of clip-ons just sounds remote.

He wore the outfit imo for multiple reasons. I’m sure one was to disguise himself. I think another was to live out a fantasy, which imo, a fantasy such as this belongs to someone who can be delusional.
Maybe just me, but I find the entire scene at LB is something right out of a comic book. Not saying it is in a comic, but definitely a comic book scenario material.

There’s a lot of theatrical flair and drama to it. It seems quite logical to me that a killer with a creative steak would engage in more creative play with his victims.

Fear was important to Zodiac, he wanted everyone to fear him. (That gave him the feeling of superiority and control he needed) I think that when he wore the costume, he thought anyone who saw his symbol, would know that the Zodiac was under that hood and to scare the heck out of the victims. But being that both Bryan and Cecelia went to a religious school that didn’t permit that sort of news , they didn’t know about the Zodiac killer or his logo.

He was probably caught off guard when they didn’t show a lot of fear of him , until they were tied up and then stabbed. Ken Narlow believed that the costume was worn to conceal the Zodiac’s face, because the murder was filmed by a partner in crime to the Zodiac. I think that is a very good possibility? Also Charles Manson took over the headlines and Zodiac wanted them back, so he escalated to a more gruesome murder using a knife like what was used in the Tate murders.

It has been mentioned that would be impossible, because there was only one set of prints found at and near the crime scene.
I say there had to be dozens of foot prints around that area. The rangers, paramedics , Napa sheriffs, Bryan and Cecelia , the Whites who comforted both victims. There may have been only one pair of military footprints , which we know were the Zodiac’s.

To illicit fear in the victims….brazen day time crime…ratchet-up his level of excitement…i think he went home after and masterbated for hours..i do think it is possible z was a sexually deprived sadistic killer

The guy who did this was a whack-job. Unless you too are a whack-job, you can’t relate.

One never really knows why someone does what they do–especially when they are capable of something like this.

The guy who did this was a whack-job. Unless you too are a whack-job, you can’t relate.

One never really knows why someone does what they do–especially when they are capable of something like this.

Absolutely! How would someone who is rational try to figure out a person who is not? We can only guess what his motive was for wearing that costume. Did he hope that Harntell would live to tell about the costume?

Or was Ken Narlow correct in thinking it was filmed for a snuff movie? ( Something Zodiac could watch over and over again.)

I think it was to hide his face and nothing more. I don’t think he cared to be a super villain or, shall I say, was his first thought. The Zodiac was successful in his first attack but only barely. In his second attack, Mageau, got a partial side view of his face. He sees at this point, fate, can play a part in success or failure. He was right. Hartnell lived. Really was no point in using the hood with Stine. He intended there to be a gun shot wound to the head and don’t think he anticipated Stine living. He didnt, obviously, but just a thought towards his thinking process.

Soze

Then why not just a ski mask? A baseball cap and dark sunglasses with a hoodie would have also sufficed. I think blood spatter and concealing his identity were two purposes. But why the symbol? He was branding himself. Why, I can’t say. There was not practical value to adding the symbol.

Since he used a knife instead of a gun, perhaps he was anticipating lots of blood and so the "Hood" was designed to keep the victims’ blood off.

That…and also, I think he made it one solid piece to remove and store it quickly. The fact that it was black would hide any blood stains.

The guy who did this was a whack-job. Unless you too are a whack-job, you can’t relate.

One never really knows why someone does what they do–especially when they are capable of something like this.

Even whack jobs are capable of rational thought and being pragmatic. I think the blood spatter protection was the most important reason. I don’t think either Hartnell or Shepherd knew him. If they did, following them to LB was going considerably out of his way to kill them. He could have ambushed them anytime. If he is hell bent on kill Hartnell and Shepherd, specifically, why follow them to a secluded location that is many mile from their homes? I think he wanted to kill someone with a knife. He preferred to do it in a secluded location. He picked LB. It was after Labor Day, when fewer persons would be at the lake. He preferred a secluded location. I think he probably was also planning for the possibility that he would need to use a gun, if things went south. The color of the hood would hide blood spatter. The hood would have concealed his identity while he walked/ran back to his car. The symbol offers some ceremonial aspect to this…his brand.