I thought the same thing Sandy, but I also have to think Zodiac (if alive–and he very well could be) would have thought about this anyway.

Be on the lookout for old dudes who commit suicide. But then again, guys like him don’t ever think they’ll get caught.

I thought the same thing Sandy, but I also have to think Zodiac (if alive–and he very well could be) would have thought about this anyway.

Be on the lookout for old dudes who commit suicide. But then again, guys like him don’t ever think they’ll get caught.

Very true Tahoe, But there has been so much said about there being absolutely no Zodiac DNA to compare to anyone ,thanks to some uninformed sleuths. He probably felt he was once again in the clear and wasn’t worried about that at all.

Now he is having different thoughts about it for sure. My suspect I have been told has moved to Los Angeles , maybe the TV stations down there won’t announce what the stations here have already. He does read these sites though, lets hope he has macular degeneration and can’t read.

Sandy if Z is still alive he was already warned when they arrested DeAngelo and announced the new methodology.

I swear his name came up in the Zodiac case at one point years ago, but I might be trippin’.

Mysteryquest 2009: "Author Michael Butterfield toured the Zodiac crimes scenes with criminalist Paul Holes"
http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/MysteryQuest.htm

Thanks RTF…and Sandy. Glad I’m not yet losin’ it.

More from the Chronicle:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/artic … 885070.php

So apparently they are re-testing the Chronicle and Examiner letters, not the Vallejo Times one.

They don’t have the envelope for the Vallejo one.

That’s a good point – though it looks like they actually are testing that one as well.

Vallejo is testing the Vallejo letters.

Tahoe, even though it states this?

<The Vallejo department has sent two envelopes, with their stamps, from letters the Zodiac mailed July 31, 1969, to the San Francisco Chronicle and the San Francisco Examiner. The stamps and adhesive areas of the envelopes were also tested about 10 years ago, but the DNA indicators were too small to be considered useful. The new hope is that improved techniques for separating glue from saliva will yield better samples.>

You are correct Xcaliber…I stand corrected.

Hi,

I want to add my two cents.

First of all, for those old enough to remember, the letters Det. Poyser is talking about have created the same excitement before– in 2002 on the ABC show in which that shameful DNA was used to "eliminate" Kjell Qvale on national TV. The letters had been received from the "private files" of one of the detectives. In other words, he had taken them home as souvenirs and out of the chain of custody. But no matter, since the DNA we want is from behind stamps and between flaps and is pretty much protected from outside contamination. It was announced in early 2003 (I think) that the DOJ was taking custody of these never before tested letters and was going to test them for DNA. An uproar of approval and anticipation went up. Then quietly, in a small article, the DOJ announced that summer that they could not obtain any DNA from these letters. So they turned out to be the same as all the other letters.

Scientific testing has shown that due to the essential or complete absence of saliva and oral epithelial cells on the Zodiac letters, testing that was done by Alan Keel in the 1990s and, from what Ray Nixon told me in 2007, ALSO by Dr. Holt in 2002, that Zodiac did not lick his stamps and envelopes. The proof of this is that the only reason Holt decided to pull the desperation move in 2002 and get DNA from the OUTSIDE of a stamp is clearly stated on Tom Voigt’s site that she couldn’t find it where it was supposed to be behind the stamps and between the flaps.

Det. Poyser, you recited the old lines from right after (Was it the day after?) Arthur Leigh Allen was eliminated by the bogus DNA sample in 2002. Immediately people came on the board and said knowingly that Allen never licked his stamps and envelopes because he did not like the taste of glue. He had his friends do it for him. But I discovered that Qvale would have known about saliva testing of race horses in the 1960s for post-race medications. So by implication he may have known not to lick his stamps. The fact that Qvale had offered a DNA sample to ABC News if he knew he did not lick the stamps and envelopes made that offer not as big a deal as everyone assumed it was at the time. What other suspect would have had such obscure knowledge in the 1960s? Probably none!

The only problem with the "Allen’s friends licked his stamps" argument is that the issue with the stamps is not that they have found twenty different DNAs from all of Allen’s legion of envelope lickers. The problem is that they cannot find ANY DNA on them. So stating that Allen had other people lick his stamps and envelopes for him runs counter to what the science says.

Qvale is a dead ringer for the SFPD Wanted Poster sketch. When we showed his photo to Lindsey Robbins in 2003, Lindsey nearly went apoplectic. When Bawart showed Allen’s photo to Lindsey, he laughed his rear end off. When Bawart showed the photo og Allen to Don Fouke, he said that Allen was not the guy he had seen and was "way out of proportion," sort of like how Ross Sullivan might be described.

Tom Voigt said the other day that he feels that Zodiac licked his stamps. And this is after Tom broke the news earlier this year that Dr. Holt had resorted to swabbing the front of a stamp. The only reason she had to do that is that Zodiac did not lick his stamps and envelopes, so his DNA was never deposited there. I’d like to remind anyone who is thinking about "degradation" of the cells and DNA on the true Zodiac letters that saliva and DNA was plentiful on both the 1978 forgery and the 19674 forgery, was easily sampled from each, and matched between those two envelopes. Why had this DNA not "degraded" over time as well? Tom of all people knows that there are issues with the letters that have prevented labs from obtaining DNA from them but he still says that Zodiac licked his stamps. Tom, what proof do you have for your statement, in that it flies in the face of the scientific testing?

I know that they are going to use the latest scientific techniques to try to get DNA from these letters. I get it. But they had PCR in 2002 and still could not find anything on them. Unless the latest technique is a time machine that goes back and forces Zodiac to lick the stamps, I don’t expect much of all this. We’ll see. It seems to just be recycled excitement from 15 years ago. Dr. Pavlov has rung the bell. I’m not salivating this time.

Mike

Hi Mike, thanks for chiming in. I may be confused by the phrasing of "essential or complete absence of saliva and oral epithelial cells", but that sounds like they did find traces of DNA, just not enough for proper testing. If they found any DNA cells at all, which it seems they did or else they wouldn’t have qualified "complete absence" with the word "essential", then what could that discovered material be if not saliva from the sender? If the sealant was an alternative to saliva then wouldn’t there be zero cells discovered?

Kind of interesting the first 3 letters are the ones they didn’t test…or, at least they didn’t show it.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/SFPDDNA.html