Hello doranchak do you think that z May have not really known how hard this was cipher was going to be to crack or maybe that law-enforcement did receive other keys to it considering he had kind of talked about current topics The TV show and what was talked about on the TV show with the gas chamber ? Thank you

Hello doranchak do you think that z May have not really known how hard this was cipher was going to be to crack or maybe that law-enforcement did receive other keys to it considering he had kind of talked about current topics The TV show and what was talked about on the TV show with the gas chamber ? Thank you

People solved extremely hard codes during WWII, such as Enigma, so I can imagine Z would have thought "well if they can crack something like that, surely they can crack something like this!"
The difference may have been that his code didn’t get attacked using anywhere near the same amount of resources that were devoted to breaking WWII era codes.
Perhaps if Zodiac had invaded Poland, the code would have been defeated sooner…

People solved extremely hard codes during WWII, such as Enigma, so I can imagine Z would have thought "well if they can crack something like that, surely they can crack something like this! "The difference may have been that his code didn’t get attacked using anywhere near the same amount of resources that were devoted to breaking WWII era codes. Perhaps if Zodiac had invaded Poland, the code would have been defeated sooner…

I agree that maybe great resources were not thrown at the 340 cipher. Zodiac was on his way out as a killer and his threat seemed to be diminishing except for his threatening letters. Zodiac was not the only violent game in 1969, in the bay area. Lots of crime, police shootings, Weather Underground and more. To quote a phrase from the Zodiac, the police had lots of "busy work’.

I also notice the FBI acknowledged your team had solved the cipher. I also wonder if the FBI had already solved the cipher but was holding back this information in case the creator came forward with the solution.

Vallejo Detective Poyser stated a few years ago he was amazed how many of the Zodiac police reports were already online and how all this information being known publicly can hinder solving a case.

The FBI crypto unit was just as surprised as we were by the solution being discovered.

The FBI crypto unit was just as surprised as we were by the solution being discovered.

I guess they never solved it.

Look below. It seems the Zodiac was able to formulate the cipher in a way to make the pivots important. Sl(a)ves intersecting with the pivot point of the first Pivot and extending through the second pivot.

Reminds of of the LAV and where Paradice and Slaves intersection at the A on the Halloween card.

Makes me wonder if the construction started as the cipher symbol layout as we have known it and built a solution with the pivots in mind.

I wonder what apparatus the Zodiac used to move plaintext to ciphertext? Did he create a matrix of columns of paper and horizontal strips of paper and slide them up and down and left to right? Or did he just overlay ciphertext in the chess pattern onto the sheet. Which ever way he used, this type of cipher requires a decent amount of concentration. Someone knocks on your door half way through and you’re in a mess when you return. Can’t have been easy unless he had an adjustable matrix of ciphertext.

Good question nav and what time Frame did he have from the date the TV show aired to when the 340 was mailed out ?

Perhaps if Zodiac had invaded Poland, the code would have been defeated sooner…

To be fair, Enigma and other WWII codes were broken by both sides not only because of massive effort, but also because of 1) volume of use and 2) non-compliance of some operators with basic security protocols. The 340 is an example of the strength of low volume use, combined with good security protocols and/or unintentional errors.

Good question nav and what time Frame did he have from the date the TV show aired to when the 340 was mailed out ?

Good questions. The Jim Dunbar show aired October 22, 1969. The 340 was mailed out with postmark of November 8th.

That is 17 days after the Dunbar show aired. 17 is the number of columns in the 340 cipher.

Hello doranchak do you think that z May have not really known how hard this was cipher was going to be to crack or maybe that law-enforcement did receive other keys to it considering he had kind of talked about current topics The TV show and what was talked about on the TV show with the gas chamber ? Thank you

People solved extremely hard codes during WWII, such as Enigma, so I can imagine Z would have thought "well if they can crack something like that, surely they can crack something like this!"
The difference may have been that his code didn’t get attacked using anywhere near the same amount of resources that were devoted to breaking WWII era codes.
Perhaps if Zodiac had invaded Poland, the code would have been defeated sooner…

You also have to add to the fact that if certain individuals hadn’t been present such as Alan Turing as well as others then the process would have taken a lot longer. Turing shortened the process with artificial intelligence which saved thousands of man hours which brings me to the point:- You need the right tools for the job coupled with the right people who are persistently and consistently motivated in the right direction.
Why did the 340 take so long? Because the right people for the job were born in the wrong era. That’s how life is sometimes.

You also have to add to the fact that if certain individuals hadn’t been present such as Alan Turing as well as others then the process would have taken a lot longer. Turing shortened the process with artificial intelligence which saved thousands of man hours which brings me to the point:- You need the right tools for the job coupled with the right people who are persistently and consistently motivated in the right direction.
Why did the 340 take so long? Because the right people for the job were born in the wrong era. That’s how life is sometimes.

Absolutely. And in the same vein, for all the people who ask "Why didn’t the FBI/NSA/CIA (etc..) solve the 340?"

Because they weren’t really trying to. None of those agencies care very much about a 50 year old cipher, they spend their paid hours working on current crimes and investigations.

Now sure, there are certainly some people there who have taken a ‘crack’ at it from time to time, Dan Olsen comes to mind, but they sure weren’t putting tons of years of efforts into it like Dave and team. I spent a good 10 years of my life on the dang thing myself. Amateur and hobby cryptographers are almost always the ones who solve old historical codes simply because they are the only ones that are even trying.

Yeah, the reality of it is that the crypto unit of the FBI has plenty of work to do already with their current case load. And not all of those ciphers have been solved. So any number of them could be the next "time sink" if they really let it.

Hey Glurk !! It’s great to see you here

Without a doubt, you are one of the most productive veteran ciphers in the communities, I believe that many of your things have inspired experts and the very (but very amateurs) like me.
I learned a lot from your program. I am grateful for that.

OBRIGADO!!!
Marcelo

You also have to add to the fact that if certain individuals hadn’t been present such as Alan Turing as well as others then the process would have taken a lot longer. Turing shortened the process with artificial intelligence which saved thousands of man hours which brings me to the point:- You need the right tools for the job coupled with the right people who are persistently and consistently motivated in the right direction.
Why did the 340 take so long? Because the right people for the job were born in the wrong era. That’s how life is sometimes.

Absolutely. And in the same vein, for all the people who ask "Why didn’t the FBI/NSA/CIA (etc..) solve the 340?"

Because they weren’t really trying to. None of those agencies care very much about a 50 year old cipher, they spend their paid hours working on current crimes and investigations.

Now sure, there are certainly some people there who have taken a ‘crack’ at it from time to time, Dan Olsen comes to mind, but they sure weren’t putting tons of years of efforts into it like Dave and team. I spent a good 10 years of my life on the dang thing myself. Amateur and hobby cryptographers are almost always the ones who solve old historical codes simply because they are the only ones that are even trying.

Code breaking can destroy the best of men, it’s laborious, painstaking work which takes thousands of hours in some cases. Dave has done well to stick with it until he won and his team. Imagine an FBI agent coming to work week after week doing this soul destroying work? Not gonna happen especially if you’re not into it.
The only people that were ever going to solve this are the people who accepted it as a challenge and not a chore. You have to be motivated and not everyone is, that’s for sure.

I would be a terrible FBI cryptanalyst.
My solve rate is shit.