One of the bloody prints from Paul Stine’s cab, shows a deep vertical scar. Not sure but I thought it was the right middle finger of the killer?

Source?

I have heard that the print included a scar, but this is first time I have heard it described as "deep" and "vertical".

I know I am going to receive heavy criticism for this statement Sandy, but have the authorities in Vallejo or San Francisco ever considered outsourcing the Zodiac letters from the USA to countries where DNA testing is not only far quicker, but far less expensive, particularly considering the horrendous backlog of DNA related rape and murder cases experienced by many police forces throughout the USA. There are a possible 20+ letters available for testing, and it appears to me that focusing on just a select few letters is limiting the chances of success. One and a half years to swab letters, secure a DNA fingerprint and run it through a familial genealogy platform is excessive by any reasonable standard – and leads me to believe there has been little, if any progress.

Agreed Richard, excellent thought, and at the very least we need more of these in the States:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states … a-test-lab

If the trail of blood in the Riverside alleyway was from a cut hand, then short of stemming the blood in some way, the end of the trail at Terracina Drive or somewhere close to it, may indicate his vehicle was parked very close to the alleyway and therefore the premeditation of this crime at this particular location. This may be extremely telling when we consider the vacant properties either side of the crime scene. The perpetrator knew the properties were empty of occupants and therefore had some prior knowledge of the Riverside campus, either working there, being a student there, or possibly through Cheri Jo Bates herself. But the position of his vehicle would have been strategically placed for a hasty getaway, possibly reinforced by earwitnesses stating they heard an old sounding car starting up shortly after the screams.

If the trail of blood in the Riverside alleyway was from a cut hand, then short of stemming the blood in some way, the end of the trail at Terracina Drive or somewhere close to it, may indicate his vehicle was parked very close to the alleyway and therefore the premeditation of this crime at this particular location. This may be extremely telling when we consider the vacant properties either side of the crime scene. The perpetrator knew the properties were empty of occupants and therefore had some prior knowledge of the Riverside campus, either working there, being a student there, or possibly through Cheri Jo Bates herself. But the position of his vehicle would have been strategically placed for a hasty getaway, possibly reinforced by earwitnesses stating they heard an old sounding car starting up shortly after the screams.

Good point Richard and I agree it is taking way too long to get DNA results. I know that when I spoke to Napa PD in 1990, they didn’t trust the near by labs and wanted to send what I had to a FBI lab. Maybe that is why the other police departments haven’t trusted any labs out of the country?

I would guess that the killer did park his car closer to the empty houses , there were more of those than just the two, I am pretty sure there were four homes that were bought by the campus and were empty. I went to Riverside recorders office and the library ,to find out who the occupants were that lived there and their occupations.( A couple were teachers)

The last time I went to Riverside was for the 50th anniversary, that was when I discovered that the address of the crime scene was the same numbers as the Church Cheri Jo went to. Ricardo and I went inside the church to light candles for her, it was very sad going in and thinking about what was done to her.

The killer wouldn’t need a tool to pull the coil wire, but to do what he did after she tried to start the car, he would need tools. He would have had to go to his car to get those.( How many people carry tools with them?) I believe that he purposely stalled working on her car, to make sure most if not all of the students had left the area. That is why he tampered with the distributor, making it seem as if he was really trying to fix her car. There was no need to do more to disable the car, pulling the coil would be enough. I am guessing he spent at least 30 or 40 minutes fumbling with the car?

I don’t think she went down that driveway / alley willingly. By then he could have used either a gun to control her or the knife. Unless his car was parked down that driveway?
Even though those homes were vacant, they were still used at times by students who had meetings there. Someone working construction would know they were empty, because they were going to be demolished and then new buildings built in their place.

If it is true that someone saw two people with flash lights looking for something, I would guess it would be the wrist watch and not a part of the so called broken knife.

Richard Grinell said;
"The perpetrator knew the properties were empty of occupants and therefore
had some prior knowledge of the Riverside campus"

Or possibly he had trailed her from her corner home to the Library, or even had
begun trailing her from earlier in the day when she was allegedly at Corona Del Mar
(Sundays reasonably having less hectic road traffic) and then whilst she was in the
Library the killer checked out the locale for the best murder site and noticed the
unlit dark houses, sunset having been about 5:00 P.M. on October 30th 1966;
https://sunrise-sunset.org/calendar?mon … 0CA,%20USA

He could have trailed her from the coffee shop where she and her dad had reportedly gone for breakfast after Mass that Sunday.

Her father had gone to Corona del Mar beach earlier in the day but I do not recall that Cheri was with him at that time.

capricorn said;
"Her father had gone to Corona del Mar beach earlier in the day but I do not
recall that Cheri was with him at that time."

(Shrug) Something close to that appears to be the conventional wisdom, according
to "regional newspapers at the time";
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1074&p=10296&hilit=father#p10296

However this individual, Michael Allport, alleges a slightly different sequence;
http://disq.us/p/1s8l89x
If anyone is on Disqus, perhaps you could ask Michael Allport what the source
of his information is. https://disqus.com/by/michael_allport/
Cheers

Do we know about which coffee shop location this would have been (source)?

Any suspects living nearby?

QT

Do we know about which coffee shop location this would have been (source)?

Any suspects living nearby?

QT

Hi QT, I remember the name of the restaurant, it was called Sandy’s and not far from the church. Ricardo and I went there, it was in a small shopping center, It is no longer called Sandy’s.

Cheri Jo was invited to go to the beach with her father, but she told him she had to do some home work, so she did not go to the beach.

One of the bloody prints from Paul Stine’s cab, shows a deep vertical scar. Not sure but I thought it was the right middle finger of the killer?

Source?

I have heard that the print included a scar, but this is first time I have heard it described as "deep" and "vertical".

It’s not verticle, it’s "" oriented.

There is no guarantee the donor of this fingerprint had a scar at all. It could be an imperfection of the surface it was lifted from, such as a scratch on the car door, dividing panel, steering wheel etc. A human hair or fibre (when he tore the shirt for example) stuck to a finger in blood, sweat or oil could also produce such a result, as could any other obstruction. It could be a scar, but not necessarily.

In order to know and have confidence in a conclusion, the examiner must be tolerant for variations in appearances of two prints, because each independent deposition of a print does not produce a perfect replication of a previously deposited print. With each independent touching of a substrate (the surface being touched), there are always variations in appearances or distortions of the source friction ridge skin.

You can touch the same surface twice at two different times and produce anomalies depending on any barrier between the fingertip and surface at that particular juncture. A fingerprint showing an imperfection, as shown on the right index finger, cannot be unequivocally determined a scar without knowing the surface it contacted and any barrier that lay between.

I wonder how they got Zodiac to come to the police station to put his prints on a fingerprint card?

I guess that is tongue in cheek. The fingerprints above are Earl Van Best Jr’s, so unless Zodiac wore his hands inside out, they are not a match to the cab with respect to any possible scar.

Hi,

That fingerprint "evidence" in his book is as useless and misleading as the handwriting. And yet they are making a movie of this crap? This stuff is part of "the most evidence ever presented against any suspect," lol.

Mike