I think they have a situation like the one presented by my POI. He changed his name, but he didn’t go to a court to do it. He just stopped using his birth name and started using another one in 1970. He had a small family, biologically-speaking. So, it may be that there are too few family members in the genealogical databases. Or, they may have the right family identified; but they’re stumped because they can’t find the family member they’re looking for.

Imagine if D’Angelo had moved to Guatemala and changed his last name to Angelo. GSK might still be an unsolved case.

I think they have a situation like the one presented by my POI. He changed his name, but he didn’t go to a court to do it. He just stopped using his birth name and started using another one in 1970. He had a small family, biologically-speaking. So, it may be that there are too few family members in the genealogical databases. Or, they may have the right family identified; but they’re stumped because they can’t find the family member they’re looking for.

Imagine if D’Angelo had moved to Guatemala and changed his last name to Angelo. GSK might still be an unsolved case.

Our POI’s seem to have a lot in common. MY RH suspect was not born RH, he changed his while he was still young and going to school. I knew his birthday and his mother’s maiden name. So I found his birth certificate and saw what his birth name really was. When he got married he used RH as his name and named his son RH Jr.

His printing is a very good match to Zodiac’s, but I still believe that Honcho is the main killer.

If DeAngelo changed his name to Angelo, he still would have been traced back to DeAngelo. His fingerprints would remain the same. Many times criminals get arrested using a different name, they are found out by their fingerprints.

But if DeAngelo changed his name and stopped associating with his biological family, HOW would he have been found? What I’m talking about specifically is the confirmatory testing when they narrowed it down to one of a few people in his family and then followed each of them around to get a discarded water bottle, etc. How would they know where he was in the whole world if he moved away and changed his name non-judicially?

Or, a variation on that theme is that they may think they are dealing with an "outside child," i.e., one born outside of the family structure (usually produced by a married man with a lady to whom he is not married). That would be hard to track as well if the mother chose to use a different last name than the one used by the father. The child would be biologically a member of the family lineage that produced the suspect, but he would have very little in the public record to identify him as such.

Not sure that adds up. A name change typically won’t affect a family tree.

How would one find a person (any person, whether suspected of a crime or not) if that person changes his name and moves hundreds of miles away and you don’t start searching until 50 years after the move and informal name change?? Where would one even start to look? Without knowledge of the person’s location today, law enforcement could conceivably have a great profile and know which family the person belongs to, but not have a clue who the person is.

Ir, take this as a specific, concrete examole of the concept I’m not conveying well: New York businessman has ten children. He goes to SF for a conference. Has a one-night stand with a woman he doesn’t know. He conceives a child, but he does’t know it. He is never told about the baby. That baby is genetically part of his family. If that baby is Zodiac, how would genetic testing alone ever produce a viable lead to find his identity? Remember, knowing his identity is crucial to verification that he’s the killer because they’ll have to follow him around for the discarded water bottle or get a search warrant for his body or whatever.

I hope I’ve explained it better. I’m just saying that it’s possible they have a perfect DNA profile and even know the family to which he belongs but not know who he is at all.

There are generally only two social issues that will drastically slow a case like this down.

1, He was a dumpster baby with zero links to his biological family (this can only be solved with his own direct descendants or he himself.

2, His mother or grandmother was a dumpster baby with Zero links to her biological family. Females are critical points of reference especially when tracking males.

Of course there’s more but they would only arise as issues if either his paternal or maternal side yielded few or weak links.

My 2 cents is that something got uploaded long ago.

<I’m just saying that it’s possible they have a perfect DNA profile and even know the family to which he belongs but not know who he is at all.>

I think you’re overthinking it. If someone in a profile-matching family tree changed their name (and/or disappeared as in your example) that would be a monster red flag for LE.

<If someone in a profile-matching family tree changed their name (and/or disappeared as in your example) that would be a monster red flag for LE.

I know. But how would law enforcement know if someone changes his name if he does it without going to court? I mean, 50 years ago people could do that and get away with it. My POI sure did it and got away with it for 50 years. So, I’m genuinely asking in a brainstorming sense, how would law enforcement know? They could go to the surviving family members and ask if they know their family history, but that would raise red flags on the other side.

By the way, your response is exactly what I’m getting at. My POI moved approximately 1000 miles from the Bay Area in 1970, and he was using a new name (without going to court to get it changed) no later than January 1970. How would law enforcement know how to track him down if they know for a fact that his family is related to Z biologically?

Maybe I’m missing something, but my thought is if Law Enforcement gets into a family tree and begins paring it down–say to males of a certain age–and then comes upon one they can’t find (by name or otherwise), they will be interested. Which means querying other family members about this person, and doing old-fashioned detective work to find him.

Remember they find relatives of varying closeness and so whilst “Uncle Fred” might be José in Guatemala he will be related to so and so in USA.

As i said earlier it’s only a complete family disconnect that makes identification hard by way of there being no government records to connect the dots and if this was the circumstance it makes it all the more likely that close individuals to the target would seek the aid of gedmatch.

The idea that the target changed his name with or with out going to court and moving to Guatemala is not a problem for identification but rather apprehension.

One thing LE could do rather easily if they have a good sample, is eliminate suspects. They could compare what they have to close relatives in the family trees of known suspects. That effort would assume LE thinks the list of possible Z suspects that has been developed by LE and amateurs is a worthwhile place to start.

Start with George Saxberg’s daughter, Fred Manalli’s sister, other cooperative relatives, and then dive into whatever DNA databases they can still access.

The lab at SFPD has had a good enough sample that has been used to eliminate three top suspects back in the 1990’s. I doubt they will waste their time and money to investigate suspects that are not good enough to test.

Just because someone thinks their suspect is Zodiac isn’t good enough, detectives need some actual proof / real evidence.

Another way to do it , is get your suspects DNA tested, make copies of it and send it to the detectives working the case.

Or send the profile to me, i’ll launch it in all the right places and can facilitate any research you want.

Also that 1990’s sample i understand was of low quality and confidence due to its origins (correct me if
i am wrong) never the less the coding system in the 90’s that produced such results is not compatible nor useful and only a new test would suffice.

Or send the profile to me, i’ll launch it in all the right places and can facilitate any research you want.

Also that 1990’s sample i understand was of low quality and confidence due to its origins (correct me if
i am wrong) never the less the coding system in the 90’s that produced such results is not compatible nor useful and only a new test would suffice.

That is what we have been lead to believe. I spoke to SFPD Lab Tech Pam Hofsass in person several yrs ago at a meeting about the Zodiac case. She told me she was confidant in the partial DNA sample she had and that in time with new technology it would improve. She said it was a good enough sample to be used to eliminate suspects and that it had been used already to eliminate three suspects. That was when I asked her if she had tested the gloves? The look in her face told me that was the first time she was told about the gloves. She did finally find them and tested them to find two male DNA , one was Stines on the outside of the gloves and another DNA on the inside. That of course must be the killers DNA.

I have several articles that I would like to have tested , that were left for me by my suspect. One being a dictionary that has what looks like blood on it, that was put in my car in Napa along with the killing costume , just one or two days after the Lake Berryessa stabbings. ( Before it was announced in the paper ) So no way could a copy cat have put that there! Later letters and notes in Z like writing and other articles that would have his DNA on them. I gave SFPD a glass that my Honcho suspect drank a Bloody Mary out of, which would have not only his handprint , but his DNA. They didn’t care enough to test it or to listen to the voice recording I gave them of him saying "Sorry I missed you, don’t worry, we will get together soon". To the average person that recording means nothing, but if it is indeed from the Zodiac, it was a warning! His saying sorry he missed me was about his shot at me that missed my head by a couple of inches, through my bedroom window in broad daylight!

Or send the profile to me, i’ll launch it in all the right places and can facilitate any research you want.

Also that 1990’s sample i understand was of low quality and confidence due to its origins (correct me if
i am wrong) never the less the coding system in the 90’s that produced such results is not compatible nor useful and only a new test would suffice.

That is what we have been lead to believe. I spoke to SFPD Lab Tech Pam Hofsass in person several yrs ago at a meeting about the Zodiac case. She told me she was confidant in the partial DNA sample she had and that in time with new technology it would improve.

Great to know, Sandy. It’s over 50 years now since the canonical victims were robbed of their lives. I pray we see an arrest or identification in 2020.