Hi,

Was the hair found in her hand brown or blond? I remember years ago someone saying it was blond but now that I think about it, it was brown, right?

Mike

It was whatever color that their suspect had until the day that the FBI pointedly corrected them.

Jesus people let’s just hope that LE are making progress on the case, hopefully, finally the poor victims and their families will get some answers if not justice. Surely that is what we all strive for ?

Jesus people let’s just hope that LE are making progress on the case, hopefully, finally the poor victims and their families will get some answers if not justice. Surely that is what we all strive for ?

Not everybody, not by a long shot.

I had an answer to my question which is very important to me: the absolute silence at this time of the investigation for and by the LE, also behind the threat of suspension in case of.

To me, this mean only a thing: progress (serious) in the investigation.

Thanks again!

In my opinion there are four possible hypotheticals with the DNA:

1) The sample was inadequate to do anything but rule out suspects,

2) A full profile was created and entered into GedMatch and leads are being followed up,

3) A full profile was created and no matches were found,

4) A full profile was created and generated a match of a party already on death row and who will never get out and Riverside PD is sitting on it waiting for the suspect to die so they will not have to have an expensive and time-consuming trial with uncertain results in a case were no interested family member remains.

I believe option 1 is most probable but point out option four as the other options have been discussed at length on the forums.

Nick/Nora,

I do not know what the heck your reply meant I have a feeling it was sarcastic. So I’ll reiterate the fact that regardless of the color of the Riverside hair, I do not believe Zodiac killed Bates. I also don’t think that he was the Monster of Florence despite the fact that one of my suspect’s relatives threw out the possibility that my suspect was both. So even if the hair in Riverside was brown, I don’t think KQ was the actor down there.

There would be no possible reason for Riverside PD to refuse to close this case out in order to duck a trial. They have no say in whether any suspect would face a jury trial as that is the sole responsibility of the Riverside County District Attorney’s Office. In the case of someone in the stated death row situation, the DA could decide to forego prosecution, yes. Not RPD though. And something tells me that RPD would be delighted to arrest anyone they thought they had adequate probable cause on. This case probably burns them to no end they weren’t able to solve it, even all these years later.

Your first three options make quite a bit of sense. I can’t see the fourth one, though.

There would be no possible reason for Riverside PD to refuse to close this case out in order to duck a trial. They have no say in whether any suspect would face a jury trial as that is the sole responsibility of the Riverside County District Attorney’s Office. In the case of someone in the stated death row situation, the DA could decide to forego prosecution, yes. Not RPD though. And something tells me that RPD would be delighted to arrest anyone they thought they had adequate probable cause on. This case probably burns them to no end they weren’t able to solve it, even all these years later.

Your first three options make quite a bit of sense. I can’t see the fourth one, though.

Wouldn’t happen in my jurisdiction, but I am not familiar with California. Also they could just take their sweet time doing there due diligence and see what happens.

Hi,

Was the hair found in her hand brown or blond? I remember years ago someone saying it was blonde but now that I think about it, it was brown, right?

Mike

It was whatever color that their suspect had until the day that the FBI pointedly corrected them.

AK Wilks: You are both correct. For years RPD stated that the hair found in a blood clump in Cheri Bates hand was "sandy blonde", matching their favored local suspect Barnett. In fact the FBI report clearly states the hairs found in Bates hand were "brown".

Even more importantly, thanks to the FBI reports uncovered by Morf, we know that the FBI mtDNA comparison clearly showed that RPD favored suspect Barnett was eliminated as the source of the four hairs found in Cheri Bates hand in a blood clump, which were surely from her killer.

For years Riverside PD passed along info that the hair found in Cheri’s hand was "sandy BLONDE", which was the hair color of the "local suspect" RPD favored. Thanks to Morf we now know the hairs were described by the FBI as "BROWN."

I have heard some argue this, and it must also be the position of Riverside PD, that the hairs may not be from the killer. Perhaps they came from a police officer or evidence tech, or perhaps were already on the ground. But this FBI report states that the hairs were on a blood clot in her hand. That IMO makes it more likely they were indeed from the killer and were pulled off in the struggle.

Also the report indicates FOUR hairs found on the blood clot in Cheri’s hand. IMO there could be a very small chance that it is possible ONE hair came from a police officer, lab tech, reporter or was present on the ground prior to the crime. But not FOUR hairs on a BLOOD CLOT. IMO these hairs are surely from the killer, and the killer was almost certainly Zodiac. Based on public posts from Tom V. and Morf, apparently it may be the case that new (2021) DNA info provides even stronger links between the Bates murder and Zodiac.

I see that a person claiming the whole Zodiac case is a hoax says the mtDNA used to compare to RPD local suspect ‘Barnett was "aged and faulty". These reports show that is false as they show a good sample was obtained and Barnett was conclusively cleared as a non-match. Also for those who say the hair in Cheri’s hand could have come from a cop that seems highly unlikely as these reports show it was actually FOUR hairs in a blood clot.

Given that hair color changes over time, and with exposure to sunlight, and given the problems of subjective perceptions of color and word meanings, one can perhaps give a little slack to RPD for saying the hair was "sandy blonde", which happens to match local suspect "Barnett", while the FBI report says it is "brown." It is still wrong, but if one is so inclined, giving them the benefit of the doubt perhaps it was just a mistake.

Far more troubling is that even after the mtDNA comparison which decisively excludes Barnett, the RPD still kept the focus on him as a suspect, and refused to pursue the possible Zodiac connection to the case. I can personally state that in 2009 and 2010 Detective Steve Shumway of the RPD refused to look at or even consider evidence pointing to the Zodiac as the killer of Cheri. They were relying on a jailhouse informant, who are notoriously unreliable as they are utterly self-interested to tell police what they want to hear in order to get time off a sentence, and disregarding the mtDNA evidence, plus all the handwriting, word usage, MO and other evidence pointing to Zodiac. I do not know if the new (2021) DNA evidence has finally changed RPD.

You can see the entire FBI report uncovered by Morf here:

<<Apparently new (2021) DNA info definitely links the Bates murder to Zodiac.>>

‘Apparently’ doesn’t count, unless you have something more, or a source.

Take a look at the way "Cheri jo Bates – Victim" is written on the 5th document, It’s a dead ringer
for Z’s handwriting in the "Exorcist letter" with the little circles dotting the I’s. (weird!)

<<Apparently new (2021) DNA info definitely links the Bates murder to Zodiac.>>

‘Apparently’ doesn’t count, unless you have something more, or a source.

IIRC at one point in February 2021 Tom V shifted Cheri Jo Bates from being listed as a "Possible" Zodiac victim to a "Definite" Zodiac victim. But now Tom Voigt’s site has Bates back to being listed as a "Possible" Zodiac victim.

Actually I corrected my post to state that "Based on public posts from Tom V. and Morf, apparently it may be the case that new (2021) DNA info provides more and even stronger links between the Bates murder and Zodiac." ".

I base that on several public posts Tom V and Morf have made, the most important ones here:

Re: Zodiac DNA Uploaded to GEDmatch (note: story was incorrect)
Postby TomVoigt » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:50 pm

MagnottaMario wrote:
Morf, Tom, a question:

As far as you know, even as rumors, are the police optimistic about the identification of Zodiac through DNA? Thank you!

Tom Voigt: My source is, yes.

And Riverside is re: Bates.

e: Zodiac DNA Uploaded to GEDmatch (note: story was incorrect
Postby morf13 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:17 pm

MagnottaMario wrote:
Morf, Tom, a question:

as far as you know, even as rumors, are the police optimistic about the identification of Zodiac through DNA? Thank you!

Morf13: I understand there is movement in both Zodiac & Bates cases, but I can not say if they have officially linked the Bates case to the Z case, or just happen to be making progress in both cases at the same time.(Law enforcement people are being tight lipped and facing the threat of being suspended if they share any info about these 2 cases right now)Based on that, I’d be shocked if one or both cases were not solved sooner rather than later

<<Apparently new (2021) DNA info definitely links the Bates murder to Zodiac.>>

‘Apparently’ doesn’t count, unless you have something more, or a source.

IIRC at one point in February 2021 Tom V shifted Cheri Jo Bates from being listed as a "Possible" Zodiac victim to a "Definite" Zodiac victim. But now Tom Voigt’s site has Bates back to being listed as a "Possible"

Perhaps Tom could shed some light on this if possible ?

For years Riverside PD passed along info that the hair found in Cheri’s hand was "sandy BLONDE", which was the hair color of the "local suspect" RPD favored. Thanks to Morf we now know the hairs were described by the FBI as "BROWN."

I have heard some argue this, and it must also be the position of Riverside PD, that the hairs may not be from the killer. Perhaps they came from a police officer or evidence tech, or perhaps were already on the ground. But this FBI report states that the hairs were on a blood clot in her hand. That IMO makes it more likely they were indeed from the killer and were pulled off in the struggle.

Also the report indicates FOUR hairs found on the blood clot in Cheri’s hand. IMO there could be a very small chance that it is possible ONE hair came from a police officer, lab tech, reporter or was present on the ground prior to the crime. But not FOUR hairs on a BLOOD CLOT. IMO these hairs are surely from the killer, and the killer was almost certainly Zodiac.

Those hairs could solve the entire case. If they were pulled out by Cheri then there is a good chance that the hairs still have their roots attached. That would mean they could get a full DNA profile of the killer.

If the police haven’t done this already, they could compare those hairs with the hair found on the back of one of Zodiac’s stamps to see if there is a match.

If they pull a profile from the stamp hair they run it through Gedmatch and figure out who the f****r is.