The problem with DNA is this: There is no proof they have any. I don’t think Z licked the stamps and envelopes BUT you can never convince someone much less prove that they will NEVER get any because anything is always possible. So people keep saying that DNA will solve the case even if it will not.

If VPD has DNA, it is sure taking a long time for them to make said announcement and/or do their genealogical research. How long have they been at this? Since May 2018? Is that the correct date? And they said they’d have results by that summer? When does it become a farce? Regardless, I think that DNA on the Z letters is scarcer than hen’s teeth and this definitely supports the notion that Z did not just casually lick his stamps and flaps.

Im not really seeing this being solved by the currently existing DNA profile anymore.

No full/complete DNA profile seems to exist.

No rape, therefore, no semen.

No full fingerprint(s)left behind, therefore, there will probably never be any touch DNA.

It has to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt, and even with a partial match, I would remain skeptical. A partial match isnt proof, its still just speculation.

Its hard to believe this guy has no relatives, much less extended relatives. If an extended relative hasnt been detected yet, that may simply mean that he wasnt from here at all. Maybe they should find a way to search foreign databases.

The problem with DNA is this: There is no proof they have any. I don’t think Z licked the stamps and envelopes BUT you can never convince someone much less prove that they will NEVER get any because anything is always possible. So people keep saying that DNA will solve the case even if it will not.

If VPD has DNA, it is sure taking a long time for them to make said announcement and/or do their genealogical research. How long have they been at this? Since May 2018? Is that the correct date? And they said they’d have results by that summer? When does it become a farce? Regardless, I think that DNA on the Z letters is scarcer than hen’s teeth and this definitely supports the notion that Z did not just casually lick his stamps and flaps.

I think you’re right. But even if they have DNA, it’s an exhausting process to search genealogies to find a person who could be the Zodiac from hits of distant relatives. Then, assuming that a candidate for the Zodiac is identified, the DNA has to be confirmed. DeAngelo was still alive, so getting a sample of his DNA was just a matter of searching his trash. If Zodiac is dead, it may be quite difficult to get his DNA. Since DNA databases didn’t exist in the 60s and 70s, there is a good chance that no one has a sample of his DNA.

If a suspect is found and, they had children, couldn’t they use the child’s dna?

Yes, that is how they confirmed BTK’s DNA. They got his daughter’s DNA.

If a suspect is found and, they had children, couldn’t they use the child’s dna?

Yes, that is how they confirmed BTK’s DNA. They got his daughter’s DNA.

I initally took this to mean they confirmed Raider through his daughter, so others might, also. You can not "confirm" DNA through a relative. Its only a lead. BTK was caught because he was lead to believe he was safe to converse with law enforcement with an older style floppy disk. The meta data on the disk lead to the church he attended, where the investigation picked up pace. BTK’s DNA was "confirmed" through the DNA of the killer, and the killer only, his daughter’s DNA was only a clue after the floppy disk incident. "Yes, Rex, it’s okay." DNA was a smaller detail in this case.

If a suspect is found and, they had children, couldn’t they use the child’s dna?

Yes, that is how they confirmed BTK’s DNA. They got his daughter’s DNA.

I initally took this to mean they confirmed Raider through his daughter, so others might, also. You can not "confirm" DNA through a relative. Its only a lead. BTK was caught because he was lead to believe he was safe to converse with law enforcement with an older style floppy disk. The meta data on the disk lead to the church he attended, where the investigation picked up pace. BTK’s DNA was "confirmed" through the DNA of the killer, and the killer only, his daughter’s DNA was only a clue after the floppy disk incident. "Yes, Rex, it’s okay." DNA was a smaller detail in this case.

I feel somewhat confident that he kinda wanted to get caught.

I think your right.

I initally took this to mean they confirmed Raider through his daughter, so others might, also. You can not "confirm" DNA through a relative. Its only a lead. BTK was caught because he was lead to believe he was safe to converse with law enforcement with an older style floppy disk. The meta data on the disk lead to the church he attended, where the investigation picked up pace. BTK’s DNA was "confirmed" through the DNA of the killer, and the killer only, his daughter’s DNA was only a clue after the floppy disk incident. "Yes, Rex, it’s okay." DNA was a smaller detail in this case.

Untrue. Police wanted more evidence than just the floppy disk. Had they just arrested Rader based upon the floppy disk, all they really had was a guy writing letters. He could have been a hoaxer. So, the got a warrant for his daughter’s pap smear results and compared it to DNA from a victim’s fingernails. The results showed a close familial match, leading credence to the theory that Rader was BTK.

I initally took this to mean they confirmed Raider through his daughter, so others might, also. You can not "confirm" DNA through a relative. Its only a lead. BTK was caught because he was lead to believe he was safe to converse with law enforcement with an older style floppy disk. The meta data on the disk lead to the church he attended, where the investigation picked up pace. BTK’s DNA was "confirmed" through the DNA of the killer, and the killer only, his daughter’s DNA was only a clue after the floppy disk incident. "Yes, Rex, it’s okay." DNA was a smaller detail in this case.

Untrue. Police wanted more evidence than just the floppy disk. Had they just arrested Rader based upon the floppy disk, all they really had was a guy writing letters. He could have been a hoaxer. So, the got a warrant for his daughter’s pap smear results and compared it to DNA from a victim’s fingernails. The results showed a close familial match, leading credence to the theory that Rader was BTK.

I totally agree thats what happened. Im just clarifying that someones DNA is not "confirmed" through a relative, its confirmed by finding the actual owner of the DNA. Thats why Codis does not do familial hits. The fact that law enforcement is able to circumvent that should be, and hopefully will be deemed unconstitional. Even being publically labeled as being related to a seril killer can have bad consequences for the family member, and thats definitely wrong.

I still disagree with the tactic as a whole. I would like to see this challenged in court. Esspecially with the results of a very private medical evaulation from someone who was not even a suspect. They issued a warrant to seize property of a completely innocent person. Even if they suspected Raider, that has nothing to do with his daughter, police just like low hanging fruit. If the warrant for his daughters DNA could be ruled ill gotten evidence, it could be excluded, would Raider walk after a new trial with no DNA evidence? I feel they did not have probable cause to issue the warrant against a completely inncocent person just to find a guilty one.

Make me think of Richard Ramierez, and the first SF cop to get Richards real name from an aqaintance of his. The cop beat a /or threatend to beat a confession out of him, and that confession should be inadmissible.

I initally took this to mean they confirmed Raider through his daughter, so others might, also. You can not "confirm" DNA through a relative. Its only a lead. BTK was caught because he was lead to believe he was safe to converse with law enforcement with an older style floppy disk. The meta data on the disk lead to the church he attended, where the investigation picked up pace. BTK’s DNA was "confirmed" through the DNA of the killer, and the killer only, his daughter’s DNA was only a clue after the floppy disk incident. "Yes, Rex, it’s okay." DNA was a smaller detail in this case.

Untrue. Police wanted more evidence than just the floppy disk. Had they just arrested Rader based upon the floppy disk, all they really had was a guy writing letters. He could have been a hoaxer. So, the got a warrant for his daughter’s pap smear results and compared it to DNA from a victim’s fingernails. The results showed a close familial match, leading credence to the theory that Rader was BTK.

I totally agree thats what happened. Im just clarifying that someones DNA is not "confirmed" through a relative, its confirmed by finding the actual owner of the DNA. Thats why Codis does not do familial hits. The fact that law enforcement is able to circumvent that should be, and hopefully will be deemed unconstitional. Even being publically labeled as being related to a seril killer can have bad consequences for the family member, and thats definitely wrong.

I still disagree with the tactic as a whole. I would like to see this challenged in court. Esspecially with the results of a very private medical evaulation from someone who was not even a suspect. They issued a warrant to seize property of a completely innocent person. Even if they suspected Raider, that has nothing to do with his daughter, police just like low hanging fruit. If the warrant for his daughters DNA could be ruled ill gotten evidence, it could be excluded, would Raider walk after a new trial with no DNA evidence? I feel they did not have probable cause to issue the warrant against a completely inncocent person just to find a guilty one.

Make me think of Richard Ramierez, and the first SF cop to get Richards real name from an aqaintance of his. The cop beat a /or threatend to beat a confession out of him, and that confession should be inadmissible.

I think you might be right about the Fourth Amendment implications of such a search for a familial DNA match. Rader confessed, so the issue was moot. It’s different when someone makes their DNA public via a genealogical site. But I think seeking a warrant for the private medical information of a family member is a bridge too far. That said, law enforcement can get any living peron’s DNA pretty much anytime they want it. I mean, unless you burn your trash and never leave your house, you’re discarding DNA somewhere that is accessible to LE.

I certainly think getting his daughters DNA from the trash would have been the proper avenue. I think the court should have to issue a statement saying they made an error, but like you said, they could have obtained a sample another way, and the same conclusion would have been come to. Im certainly not implying they should let a serial killer/rapist out of prison, but that Dennis Raider was a guilty person who was falsely convicted, and we need to pay more attention to our process and ensure things like this does not become a precedent/case law in any way.

The disk gave LE grounds to investigate. While doing so, they found his white Jeep Cherokee which matched the exact description of the one in the video at Home Depot or wherever it was (more evidence he wanted to be caught).

And even then, they chose not to arrest. They absolutely could have gotten an arrest warrant, I’m sure. But he’s a serial killer and rapist, so they wanted to get the whole thing in one shot.

I hear we’re talking about getting his Daughter’s DNA from the trash…why not get his DNA?

That they got his Daughter’s DNA from a medical appointment…ew, no. It happened, but totally unethical and has to be illegal. Completely ridiculous.

The disk gave LE grounds to investigate. While doing so, they found his white Jeep Cherokee which matched the exact description of the one in the video at Home Depot or wherever it was (more evidence he wanted to be caught).

And even then, they chose not to arrest. They absolutely could have gotten an arrest warrant, I’m sure. But he’s a serial killer and rapist, so they wanted to get the whole thing in one shot.

I hear we’re talking about getting his Daughter’s DNA from the trash…why not get his DNA?

That they got his Daughter’s DNA from a medical appointment…ew, no. It happened, but totally unethical and has to be illegal. Completely ridiculous.

Exactly

The disk gave LE grounds to investigate. While doing so, they found his white Jeep Cherokee which matched the exact description of the one in the video at Home Depot or wherever it was (more evidence he wanted to be caught).

And even then, they chose not to arrest. They absolutely could have gotten an arrest warrant, I’m sure. But he’s a serial killer and rapist, so they wanted to get the whole thing in one shot.

I hear we’re talking about getting his Daughter’s DNA from the trash…why not get his DNA?

That they got his Daughter’s DNA from a medical appointment…ew, no. It happened, but totally unethical and has to be illegal. Completely ridiculous.

I don’t recall why they didn’t just get his DNA. I know that they didn’t get a look at his license plate from the Home Depot surveillance footage, and the footage was too grainy for an ID. If I recall, they were surveilling him. I think they tried to get his DNA from when he ate his lunch, but he never discarded his trash in public trash cans.

BTK’s daughter had a PAP SMEAR TEST on file at the hospital and they got a court order to run a DNA test on it and entered it into CODIS for the hit on BTK and that’s what they needed for a slam dunk.

They actually had overkill on the evidence as BTK just fessed up the moment they had him in the interrogation room. Rader even said it would be DNA that would catch him.

By the way contrary to old wives tales serial killers do leave clues to their identity.

http://www.tabloidcolumn.com/btk-puzzle.html

BTK held loads of evidence in his home which completely undermines claims offenders this old dump their trophies. That guy had a filing cabinet on hits and stalking.