BTK’s daughter had a PAP SMEAR TEST on file at the hospital and they got a court order to run a DNA test on it and entered it into CODIS for the hit on BTK and that’s what they needed for a slam dunk.

They actually had overkill on the evidence as BTK just fessed up the moment they had him in the interrogation room. Rader even said it would be DNA that would catch him.

By the way contrary to old wives tales serial killers do leave clues to their identity.

http://www.tabloidcolumn.com/btk-puzzle.html

BTK held loads of evidence in his home which completely undermines claims offenders this old dump their trophies. That guy had a filing cabinet on hits and stalking.

Codis can not do familial hits.

BTK’s daughter had a PAP SMEAR TEST on file at the hospital and they got a court order to run a DNA test on it and entered it into CODIS for the hit on BTK and that’s what they needed for a slam dunk.

They actually had overkill on the evidence as BTK just fessed up the moment they had him in the interrogation room. Rader even said it would be DNA that would catch him.

By the way contrary to old wives tales serial killers do leave clues to their identity.

http://www.tabloidcolumn.com/btk-puzzle.html

BTK held loads of evidence in his home which completely undermines claims offenders this old dump their trophies. That guy had a filing cabinet on hits and stalking.

Codis can not do familial hits.

It has been doing familial hits since at least mid-2000. It can highlight close relatives. That is how they caught the Grim Sleeper. His son entered CODIS.

The disk gave LE grounds to investigate. While doing so, they found his white Jeep Cherokee which matched the exact description of the one in the video at Home Depot or wherever it was (more evidence he wanted to be caught).

And even then, they chose not to arrest. They absolutely could have gotten an arrest warrant, I’m sure. But he’s a serial killer and rapist, so they wanted to get the whole thing in one shot.

I hear we’re talking about getting his Daughter’s DNA from the trash…why not get his DNA?

That they got his Daughter’s DNA from a medical appointment…ew, no. It happened, but totally unethical and has to be illegal. Completely ridiculous.

The disk could not tell the police that the person writing the letters was actually the killer. The letter writer could have been a hoaxer. Could the police have gotten an arrest warrant simply from the disk alone? Maybe. It depends on judge. Had they succeeded in getting an arrest warrant, they would have his DNA. But…if the validity of that warrant was later challenged and determined to lack probable cause, the DNA match could also be suppressed. So, going after his daughter’s DNA was smart. She has stated that she would have willingly cooperated. But I also understand why the police went the route they did.

The disk gave LE grounds to investigate. While doing so, they found his white Jeep Cherokee which matched the exact description of the one in the video at Home Depot or wherever it was (more evidence he wanted to be caught).

And even then, they chose not to arrest. They absolutely could have gotten an arrest warrant, I’m sure. But he’s a serial killer and rapist, so they wanted to get the whole thing in one shot.

I hear we’re talking about getting his Daughter’s DNA from the trash…why not get his DNA?

That they got his Daughter’s DNA from a medical appointment…ew, no. It happened, but totally unethical and has to be illegal. Completely ridiculous.

The disk could not tell the police that the person writing the letters was actually the killer. The letter writer could have been a hoaxer. Could the police have gotten an arrest warrant simply from the disk alone? Maybe. It depends on judge. Had they succeeded in getting an arrest warrant, they would have his DNA. But…if the validity of that warrant was later challenged and determined to lack probable cause, the DNA match could also be suppressed. So, going after his daughter’s DNA was smart. She has stated that she would have willingly cooperated. But I also understand why the police went the route they did.

From what I recall he was sending them evidence in the mail. Victim’s IDs and photographs of the bodies (Vicki Wegerle maybe??) along with photos of himself wearing the victims clothes in bondage positions. I think they were fairly certain it was BTK also because they had held back that he was signing his communications. That was not public knowledge. However your point is taken.

BTK’s daughter had a PAP SMEAR TEST on file at the hospital and they got a court order to run a DNA test on it and entered it into CODIS for the hit on BTK and that’s what they needed for a slam dunk.

They actually had overkill on the evidence as BTK just fessed up the moment they had him in the interrogation room. Rader even said it would be DNA that would catch him.

By the way contrary to old wives tales serial killers do leave clues to their identity.

http://www.tabloidcolumn.com/btk-puzzle.html

BTK held loads of evidence in his home which completely undermines claims offenders this old dump their trophies. That guy had a filing cabinet on hits and stalking.

Codis can not do familial hits.

It has been doing familial hits since at least mid-2000. It can highlight close relatives. That is how they caught the Grim Sleeper. His son entered CODIS.

Have a read.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/laboratory … fact-sheet

Codis does not do familial hits. Not only is it illegal and unconstitutional, its also unethical.

Edit: Even if Codis did do familial hits, in order for Zodiac to show up, the criteria would be kinda tight.

Zodiacs partial would have to be uploaded. (The unknown)

There would have to be an acceptable partial match in Codis.

Partial matches do not link family members.

A quality DNA sample would have to be taken from the new suspect and uploaded to Codis. So either an arrest would have to be made or a warrant issued.

The family of Zodiac would of had to commit a serious crime, landing their DNA in Codis.

A familial hit would be made.

A judge would have to have probable cause to issue a warrant against the family member to release the name in Codis to the FBI, because Codis doesnt attach names to DNA sequences in the computer, that info is keep secret by the donating agency, and that may not be the FBI in all cases.

If a warrant is issued, the names can be attached to the report and sent to the FBI for further investigation. It doesnt mean there is a for sure going to be an arrest. DNA is not always a smoking gun, and to get Zodiac in court, like all other trials, they will need more than just DNA for a conviction.

From what I recall he was sending them evidence in the mail. Victim’s IDs and photographs of the bodies (Vicki Wegerle maybe??) along with photos of himself wearing the victims clothes in bondage positions. I think they were fairly certain it was BTK also because they had held back that he was signing his communications. That was not public knowledge. However your point is taken.

I need to re-watch the documentary. I think he sent doll diaramas of the way victims were posed, which entails knowledge of the crime scenes. I don’t know if he included actual photographs. You could be right about that, though, I just don’t remember. I specifically remember dolls posed the way the victims were bound.

But the bigger problem with just the disk is that the couldn’t prove that Dennis (they never got his last name from the disk) was actually Dennis Rader. They looked on the church website and found that Dennis Rader was the president of the church, but someone from the church could have used a disk on a program registered to him. This is where investigators and lawyers have very different skillsets. Yes, the most logical conclusion is that it was Dennis Rader, but proving that beyond a reasonable doubt is quite a different matter. The most logical explanation does not necessarily equal proof beyond a reasonable doubt. How many people had access to the church’s computer? Just because a program was registered to Dennis, doesn’t mean that Dennis wrote the letter that was on the disk. They needed more proof.

I feel somewhat confident that he kinda wanted to get caught.

He was asked about that in a prison interview. He said that he didn’t. I think that the thrill of the hunt was just too enticing to him. He knew he could no longer kill because he was old. But I think the thrill he got from the cat and mouse game with the cops replaced the thrill of killing.

The disk gave LE grounds to investigate. While doing so, they found his white Jeep Cherokee which matched the exact description of the one in the video at Home Depot or wherever it was (more evidence he wanted to be caught).

And even then, they chose not to arrest. They absolutely could have gotten an arrest warrant, I’m sure. But he’s a serial killer and rapist, so they wanted to get the whole thing in one shot.

I hear we’re talking about getting his Daughter’s DNA from the trash…why not get his DNA?

That they got his Daughter’s DNA from a medical appointment…ew, no. It happened, but totally unethical and has to be illegal. Completely ridiculous.

The disk could not tell the police that the person writing the letters was actually the killer. The letter writer could have been a hoaxer. Could the police have gotten an arrest warrant simply from the disk alone? Maybe. It depends on judge. Had they succeeded in getting an arrest warrant, they would have his DNA. But…if the validity of that warrant was later challenged and determined to lack probable cause, the DNA match could also be suppressed. So, going after his daughter’s DNA was smart. She has stated that she would have willingly cooperated. But I also understand why the police went the route they did.

I know, I’m saying they could have arrested him after finding the Jeep. Of that I’m fairly certain. Going after his Daughter’s DNA, obtaining from a doctor’s appointment…that doesn’t sit well with me.

As far as the other point you responded to…I see what you’re saying, but I’m compelled to think that, at the least, he had made his peace about it happening.

The disk gave LE grounds to investigate. While doing so, they found his white Jeep Cherokee which matched the exact description of the one in the video at Home Depot or wherever it was (more evidence he wanted to be caught).

And even then, they chose not to arrest. They absolutely could have gotten an arrest warrant, I’m sure. But he’s a serial killer and rapist, so they wanted to get the whole thing in one shot.

I hear we’re talking about getting his Daughter’s DNA from the trash…why not get his DNA?

That they got his Daughter’s DNA from a medical appointment…ew, no. It happened, but totally unethical and has to be illegal. Completely ridiculous.

The disk could not tell the police that the person writing the letters was actually the killer. The letter writer could have been a hoaxer. Could the police have gotten an arrest warrant simply from the disk alone? Maybe. It depends on judge. Had they succeeded in getting an arrest warrant, they would have his DNA. But…if the validity of that warrant was later challenged and determined to lack probable cause, the DNA match could also be suppressed. So, going after his daughter’s DNA was smart. She has stated that she would have willingly cooperated. But I also understand why the police went the route they did.

I know, I’m saying they could have arrested him after finding the Jeep. Of that I’m fairly certain. Going after his Daughter’s DNA, obtaining from a doctor’s appointment…that doesn’t sit well with me.

As far as the other point you responded to…I see what you’re saying, but I’m compelled to think that, at the least, he had made his peace about it happening.

I don’t know if they could identify the Jeep from the surveillance footage. They didn’t have a license plate and the footage was very grainy. They had the make, model, and color, but that’s not enough to say it was definitely the same guy. As for the warrant for the daughter’s pap smear results, I think it was an exception to HIPAA. Would that hold up under appeal? I don’t know. Luckily, Rader confessed.

Have a read.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/laboratory … fact-sheet

Codis does not do familial hits. Not only is it illegal and unconstitutional, its also unethical.

Okay I get what you mean. On it’s own it doesn’t do familial DNA testing automatically. However back in 2010 California law allows LE to familial test for offenders at large deemed a threat. They took a Grim Sleeper crime scene DNA profile with the projected possible relatives and they ran those against CODIS and got the hit with his son. They in fact did this 10 times in total over years it seems until his son was in the system and then it worked.

If I was to guess what is going on with DNA, I would say that it makes no sense to me that there is no DNA. The Zodiac crime scene evidence has to be some of the most DNA contaminated evidence around being handled long before the days of on-scene forensics. Back then detectives sometimes did the evidence collection. So there must be literally tangles of profiles including the factory worker who made the bag that stored the evidence item. We are dealing with touch DNA. It should be pulling all sorts of profiles. So my guess is that the problem is not a lack of DNA but an overabundance of it, possibly fragmented and so producing many permutations or possible combinations to a full profile. Meaning the search is still on to find profiles from two different pieces of Zodiac evidence that match up. I think we would at least have known that much by now if that had happened.

The two places I would look for a full profile are behind the stickers in the Halloween card and the bloody fingerprint stuck to evidence tape (tape holds DNA well). By eliminating Stine’s DNA, what remains could be Zodiacs.

A really nice one would be to find a Zodiac letter that has never been opened but sitting in a pile lost somewhere until noticed. Sloughed off skin cells (dust DNA) on the inside for touch DNA processing.

Have a read.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/laboratory … fact-sheet

Codis does not do familial hits. Not only is it illegal and unconstitutional, its also unethical.

Okay I get what you mean. On it’s own it doesn’t do familial DNA testing automatically. However back in 2010 California law allows LE to familial test for offenders at large deemed a threat. They took a Grim Sleeper crime scene DNA profile with the projected possible relatives and they ran those against CODIS and got the hit with his son. They in fact did this 10 times in total over years it seems until his son was in the system and then it worked.

So, some states do familial matching, its a "states rights" issue, which I respect, however, pretty much all state constitutions give right to no be searched without a warrant, and this is where some of the controversy comes into play, an offender can kill in one state but live in another, or, a relative of the killer may live in an entirely different state than victim and the killer, so states start to seriously conflict, or other times agree on what to do. (sort of like concealed carry laws) This data sheet does list California as a familial testing state, Its going to be interesting to watch how this unfolds over time in respect to peoples constitional rights, im sure it will continue to be a mess though