Reminds me of blue rock springs to some degree…

At around 11:55 p.m. on Friday, February 22, 1946, Jimmy Hollis, age 25, and his girlfriend, Mary Jeanne Larey, age 19, were attacked while parked on a secluded road known as a lovers’ lane.[5] The attack happened on a lateral road off of Richmond Road, a mile north of the addition known as Beverly. According to a fourteen-page statement by Hollis, the attack happened about 50 feet (15 m) off Richmond Road on an unpaved street, about 100 yards from the last row of city homes.[6]

The couple arrived at the scene around 11:45 p.m. After about ten minutes, a man walked up to Hollis’ driver-side door and flashed a flashlight in his face, blinding him. Hollis, not sure if it was a prank or if he had been mistaken for someone else, told the man, "Fellow, you’ve got me mixed up with someone else. You’ve got the wrong man."[7] The man had a pistol and told him something like, "I don’t want to kill you fellow, so do what I say",[8] and ordered them to get out of the car. -Wikipedia

Do you think zodiac was aware of these crimes? Maybe taking some inspiration from them?

Mentions of, and discussions on it, in other threads over the years.

search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=texarkana

Mentions of, and discussions on it, in other threads over the years.

search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=texarkana

Thanks, I did a quick search but have difficulty navigating this site on my mobile device…

Would it be appropriate to continue this thread? Or has most of it been pretty well discussed?

From what I saw in the link provided discussion has been fairly minimal…

I don’t know much about the case yet, but again, it instantly reminded me of zodiac.

Thanks, I did a quick search but have difficulty navigating this site on my mobile device…

Would it be appropriate to continue this thread? Or has most of it been pretty well discussed?

That’s the dilemma really. To answer that you would need to search the existing mentions of it and threads pertaining to it. I checked myself and couldn’t see clear main topic on it but maybe one of the other mods night know.

Thanks, I did a quick search but have difficulty navigating this site on my mobile device…

Would it be appropriate to continue this thread? Or has most of it been pretty well discussed?

That’s the dilemma really. To answer that you would need to search the existing mentions of it and threads pertaining to it. I checked myself and couldn’t see clear main topic on in but maybe one of the other mods night know.

Hmmm…

Well, I guess I Will wait to see what the other mods say before I continue just to be safe.

Ok, 1946, so 22 years prior to zodiac, and zodiac was described as being in his thirties, so there is no real way that the phantom could be zodiac, unless zodiac lived in Texas and killed people when he was like 15 years old…Not very likely…

… there are some very striking similarities between the crimes of the phantom and the crimes of zodiac, the Jimmy Hollis and Mary Jeanne Larey attack was eerily similar to the attack at blue rock springs…

though there are also some crucial differences between these crimes…

…still, it’s hard to not at least think that zodiac must have at least known about the phantom, the phantom might have even inspired him in some way… it feels like there would be some connection, but who knows…

This happened near where I live and I remember the movie about it years back and yes, there are quite a few parallels between this and Zodiac. It’s so Zodiac like I looked into it a bit as all I knew was from the movie but I agree it is pretty certain it wasn’t Zodiac.

These crimes made quite a stir when they happened though and I believe it was "Life" magazine, or one of the more popular nationwide publications had a big story on it. I would think it’s a safe bet quite a few of the old detective magazines had stories about it as well, so it’s more than possible Zodiac was aware of this and even took some inspiration from it.

However, "lovers lane" type murders such as these and Zodiac’s have been quite common all across the US, it’s hard to pin down one and say, yeah, that’s the one that inspired Zodiac.

This happened near where I live and I remember the movie about it years back and yes, there are quite a few parallels between this and Zodiac. It’s so Zodiac like I looked into it a bit as all I knew was from the movie but I agree it is pretty certain it wasn’t Zodiac.

These crimes made quite a stir when they happened though and I believe it was "Life" magazine, or one of the more popular nationwide publications had a big story on it. I would think it’s a safe bet quite a few of the old detective magazines had stories about it as well, so it’s more than possible Zodiac was aware of this and even took some inspiration from it.

However, "lovers lane" type murders such as these and Zodiac’s have been quite common all across the US, it’s hard to pin down one and say, yeah, that’s the one that inspired Zodiac.

Zodiac was addicted to reading the news paper…

I suppose you are right about "lovers lane" attacks though…

But jeez, a masked man killing couples in lovers lane areas using similar tactics to the zodiac crimes?

They actually do a yearly showing of the movie based on the phantom killer in Texarkana, on halloween I believe, they actually screen the film in the park where Betty Jo Booker was murdered.

Quick review:
Phantom crimes (Wikipedia)

Richard L. Griffin and Polly Ann Moore
Richard L. Griffin, age 29, and his girlfriend of six weeks, Polly Ann Moore, age 17, were found dead in Griffin’s 1941 Oldsmobile sedan on Sunday, March 24, 1946 between 8:30 and 9:00 a.m. by a passing motorist.[12][13] The motorist saw the parked car on a lovers’ lane named Rich Road (now South Robison) near a railroad spur 100 yards south of US Highway 67 West close to a nightspot called Club Dallas.[6] At that time, Club Dallas was about 1 mile (1.6 km) west outside the city limits. The motorist at first thought that they were asleep. Griffin was found between the front seats on his knees with his head resting on his crossed hands, and his pockets were turned inside out. Moore was found sprawled face-down in the back seat. Griffin had been shot twice while still in the car[14] and both had been shot once in the back of the head and were fully clothed. Moore’s purse was beside her in the back seat and contained the photo of her that was used in the following morning’s paper. The motorist contacted the city police who then contacted Bowie County Sheriff W. H. Presley. According to a police report written by Arkansas State Trooper Max Tackett, one of the lead investigators of the Phantom cases, Moore was killed on a blanket in front of the vehicle before being placed back inside.

In a mix-up, Moore’s body was picked up before an examination could determine if she had been sexually assaulted. Both bodies were taken to the Texarkana Funeral Home. The couple were last seen having dinner with Griffin’s sister and her boyfriend on Saturday at around 10 p.m. in a cafe on West Seventh Street, also known as US Highway 67 West. They were also seen earlier Saturday at 2 p.m. by friends in another West Seventh Street cafe. On Monday, March 25, the front page of the morning paper read "Couple Found Shot to Death in Auto".

Paul Martin and Betty Jo Booker
On Saturday night, April 13, Betty Jo Booker, age 15, was playing her alto saxophone in her regular weekly gig with her band, The Rythmaires, at the VFW Club at W. 4th and Oak Street. She did not finish until about 1:30 a.m. Sunday. She waited for her friend since kindergarten, Paul Martin, age 16, to pick her up. Martin was in town after moving away to Kilgore two years prior. He had been with her earlier that day before the dance and was to take her to a slumber party across town. Booker’s classmates said that earlier that day she told them that she did not want to go out with Martin but felt obligated since he was an old friend.

Booker and Martin were killed early Sunday, April 14. Martin’s body was found at about 6:30 a.m. by Mr. and Mrs. G. H. Weaver and their son, who drove 200 yards to the nearest residence to contact police. Martin’s body was found lying on its left side by the northern side of North Park Road. Blood was found further down on the other side of the road by a fence. He had been shot four times—once through the nose, again through the left fourth rib from behind, a third time in the right hand, and finally through the back of the neck

Virgil and Katie Starks
On Friday, May 3, sometime before 9 p.m., Virgil Starks, age 37, a farmer and welder, was in his modest, yet modern ranch-style house on his 500-acre farm off Highway 67 East, almost 10 miles (16 km) northeast of Texarkana.[29] He turned on his favorite weekly radio show and his wife, Katie, age 36, gave him a heating pad for his sore back. He sat in his armchair in the sitting room, which was just off of the kitchen and the bedroom. While Katie was in her bedroom lying on the bed in her nightgown, she heard something from the backyard and asked Virgil to turn down the radio. Seconds later, while Virgil was reading the May 3rd edition of the Texarkana Gazette, two shots were fired into the back of his head from a closed double-window 3 feet (0.91 m) away. Katie did not hear the gunshots; instead, she heard what "sounded like the breaking of glass". She thought Virgil dropped something and went to see what happened. As she entered the doorway to the living room, she saw Virgil standing up and then suddenly slump back into his chair.[30] She saw blood then ran to him and lifted up his head. When she realized he was dead, she ran to the phone to call police.

She rang the wall-crank phone two times before being shot twice in the face from the same window. One bullet entered her right cheek and exited behind her left ear.[30] The other went in her lower jaw just below the lip, breaking it and splintering out several teeth before lodging under her tongue. She dropped to her knees but soon managed to get on her feet.[31] She ran to get a pistol from the living room, but she was blinded by her own blood.[32] She heard the killer tearing loose the rusted screen wire on the back porch. She thought she was going to be killed, so she stumbled toward her bedroom near the front of the house to leave a note. Meanwhile, the killer ran to the back of the house and made his way up the steps and into the side-screened porch through the back screen door. She heard the killer coming through the kitchen window, so she turned around and ran through the dining room, through the bedroom, down a hallway, through another bedroom, and then into the living room and out the front door, leaving behind a "virtual river of blood" and teeth throughout the house and across the street. Barefooted and still in her blood-soaked nightgown, she ran across the street to her sister and brother-in-law’s house. Since no one was home, she ran 50 yards more to A. V. Prater’s house. Prater answered her call for help. She gasped, "Virgil’s dead", then collapsed.

And of course we have this attack, which is very very similar to zodiac at BRS

Tell me that blue rock springs is not the first thing you think of here:

Jimmy Hollis and Mary Jeanne Larey
At around 11:55 p.m. on Friday, February 22, 1946, Jimmy Hollis, age 25, and his girlfriend, Mary Jeanne Larey, age 19, were attacked while parked on a secluded road known as a lovers’ lane.[5] The attack happened on a lateral road off of Richmond Road, a mile north of the addition known as Beverly. According to a fourteen-page statement by Hollis, the attack happened about 50 feet (15 m) off Richmond Road on an unpaved street, about 100 yards from the last row of city homes.[6]

The couple arrived at the scene around 11:45 p.m. After about ten minutes, a man walked up to Hollis’ driver-side door and flashed a flashlight in his face, blinding him. Hollis, not sure if it was a prank or if he had been mistaken for someone else, told the man, "Fellow, you’ve got me mixed up with someone else. You’ve got the wrong man."[7] The man had a pistol and told him something like, "I don’t want to kill you fellow, so do what I say"

I think zodiac May have been inspired by the 1946 "moonlight murders" as well as the 1947 "The Black Dahlia Murder"

One attempt at decoding one of the zodiac ciphers found the phrase "here it is" at the start, a phrase which was also used by the black dahlia murderer.

…and while many crimes seem similar to zodiac, the 1946 phantom murders, and the 1947 black dahlia murders share striking similarities…

I know there is nearly no way that zodiac could be the phantom, but good Lord…

To what extent did "true crime" and crime in the news influence zodiac? Can we derive anything useful from such assessments?

Who knows, very interesting stuff though.

I know there is nearly no way that zodiac could be the phantom, but good Lord…

Agreed, seems obvious stories like these had a big influence on Zodiac and if he read detective magazines as suspected this case was most likely in one.

To what extent did "true crime" and crime in the news influence zodiac? Can we derive anything useful from such assessments?

It could be great circumstantial evidence if we find a suspect with a collection of these old magazines.

The "the Black Dahlia murderer" and the "Texarkana phantom" both committed crimes which were very, very similar to zodiac.

1946 is 22 years prior to zodiac

So, If the phantom was 20 years old in 1946, and if the phantom was zodiac, then zodiac would have been 42 years old in 1968, so the age would be a little high, but still possible…

If the phantom was only 18 in 1946, then he would have been 40 in 1968…

Still a little too old, but still with in the range of possibility…

The "the Black Dahlia murderer" and the "Texarkana phantom" both committed crimes which were very, very similar to zodiac.

the black dahlia

·On January 21, 1947, a person claiming to be Short’s killer placed a phone call to the office of James Richardson, the editor of the Los Angeles Examiner, congratulating Richardson on the newspaper’s coverage of the case, and stated he planned on eventually turning himself in, but not before allowing police to pursue him further.[27] Additionally, the caller told Richardson to "expect some souvenirs of Beth Short in the mail -Wikipedia

·On January 24, a suspicious manila envelope was discovered by a U.S. Postal Service worker: The envelope had been addressed to "The Los Angeles Examiner and other Los Angeles papers" with individual words that had been cut-and-pasted from newspaper clippings; additionally, a large message on the face of the envelope read: "Here is Dahlia’s belongings [,] letter to follow".[27] The envelope contained Short’s birth certificate, business cards, photographs, names written on pieces of paper, and an address book with the name Mark Hansen embossed on the cover.[56] The packet had been carefully cleaned with gasoline, similarly to Short’s body, which led police to suspect the packet had been sent directly by her killer.[57] Despite the efforts to clean the packet, several partial fingerprints were lifted from the envelope and sent to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for testing; however, the prints were compromised in transit and thus could not be properly analyzed.[58] The same day the packet was received by the Examiner, a handbag and a black suede shoe were reported to have been seen on top of a garbage can in an alley a short distance from Norton Avenue, 2 miles (3.2 km) from where Short’s body had been discovered. The items were recovered by police, but they had also been wiped clean with gasoline, destroying any fingerprints. -Wikipedia

·On January 26, another letter was received by the Examiner, this time handwritten, which read: "Here it is. Turning in Wed., Jan. 29, 10 am. Had my fun at police. Black Dahlia Avenger".[62] The letter also named a location at which the supposed killer would turn himself in. Police waited at the location on the morning of January 29, but the alleged killer did not appear.[62] Instead, at 1:00pm, The Examiner offices received another cut-and-pasted letter, which read: "Have changed my mind. You would not give me a square deal. Dahlia killing was justified.

( "Dahlia killing was justified" and "bates had to die" seem to be conveying the same message… )

The "black dahlia murderer", the "Texarkana phantom", and the "zodiac killer" all seem to commit similar crimes in similar fashion, leading me to go way out on a limb and speculate "could these all be the same person? Is that even possible?"

Well, it actually is possible, just very, very, unlikely. I mean, if the phantom was very young, between 16 and 20 years old, he would have been in his late thirties or early forties when the zodiac crimes were committed, which is a reasonable age range for zodiac. So, perhaps after Texarkana the killer goes to southern California, where he commits the "black dahlia murder". Around 20 years or so goes by and the Cheri jo bates case occurs in southern California, at which point the killer moves north to the bay and the zodiac crimes commence…

I know this is all incredibly unlikely, and I am not trying to make a case here, I am simply speculating just for the fun of it, I don’t take these ideas seriously and I am not presenting them as facts or a case. This is all just for fun

The "the Black Dahlia murderer" and the "Texarkana phantom" both committed crimes which were very, very similar to zodiac.

1946 is 22 years prior to zodiac

So, If the phantom was 20 years old in 1946, and if the phantom was zodiac, then zodiac would have been 42 years old in 1968, so the age would be a little high, but still possible…

If the phantom was only 18 in 1946, then he would have been 40 in 1968…

Still a little too old, but still with in the range of possibility…

The "the Black Dahlia murderer" and the "Texarkana phantom" both committed crimes which were very, very similar to zodiac.

the black dahlia

·On January 21, 1947, a person claiming to be Short’s killer placed a phone call to the office of James Richardson, the editor of the Los Angeles Examiner, congratulating Richardson on the newspaper’s coverage of the case, and stated he planned on eventually turning himself in, but not before allowing police to pursue him further.[27] Additionally, the caller told Richardson to "expect some souvenirs of Beth Short in the mail -Wikipedia

·On January 24, a suspicious manila envelope was discovered by a U.S. Postal Service worker: The envelope had been addressed to "The Los Angeles Examiner and other Los Angeles papers" with individual words that had been cut-and-pasted from newspaper clippings; additionally, a large message on the face of the envelope read: "Here is Dahlia’s belongings [,] letter to follow".[27] The envelope contained Short’s birth certificate, business cards, photographs, names written on pieces of paper, and an address book with the name Mark Hansen embossed on the cover.[56] The packet had been carefully cleaned with gasoline, similarly to Short’s body, which led police to suspect the packet had been sent directly by her killer.[57] Despite the efforts to clean the packet, several partial fingerprints were lifted from the envelope and sent to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for testing; however, the prints were compromised in transit and thus could not be properly analyzed.[58] The same day the packet was received by the Examiner, a handbag and a black suede shoe were reported to have been seen on top of a garbage can in an alley a short distance from Norton Avenue, 2 miles (3.2 km) from where Short’s body had been discovered. The items were recovered by police, but they had also been wiped clean with gasoline, destroying any fingerprints. -Wikipedia

·On January 26, another letter was received by the Examiner, this time handwritten, which read: "Here it is. Turning in Wed., Jan. 29, 10 am. Had my fun at police. Black Dahlia Avenger".[62] The letter also named a location at which the supposed killer would turn himself in. Police waited at the location on the morning of January 29, but the alleged killer did not appear.[62] Instead, at 1:00pm, The Examiner offices received another cut-and-pasted letter, which read: "Have changed my mind. You would not give me a square deal. Dahlia killing was justified.

( "Dahlia killing was justified" and "bates had to die" seem to be conveying the same message… )

The "black dahlia murderer", the "Texarkana phantom", and the "zodiac killer" all seem to commit similar crimes in similar fashion, leading me to go way out on a limb and speculate "could these all be the same person? Is that even possible?"

Well, it actually is possible, just very, very, unlikely. I mean, if the phantom was very young, between 16 and 20 years old, he would have been in his late thirties or early forties when the zodiac crimes were committed, which is a reasonable age range for zodiac. So, perhaps after Texarkana the killer goes to southern California, where he commits the "black dahlia murder". Around 20 years or so goes by and the Cheri jo bates case occurs in southern California, at which point the killer moves north to the bay and the zodiac crimes commence…

I know this is all incredibly unlikely, and I am not trying to make a case here, I am simply speculating just for the fun of it, I don’t take these ideas seriously and I am not presenting them as facts or a case. This is all just for fun

hi z
not the zodiac, just another classic example of a thrill killer serial killer-like son of sam, monster of florence and zodiac

The signature of the Zodiac and Phantom couldn’t be more different. The only thing they have in common is victimology. If there’s any connection, it’s that Zodiac read about the Texarkana series in a detective magazine at some point and found something morbid to dwell on therein.

The "the Black Dahlia murderer" and the "Texarkana phantom" both committed crimes which were very, very similar to zodiac.

1946 is 22 years prior to zodiac

So, If the phantom was 20 years old in 1946, and if the phantom was zodiac, then zodiac would have been 42 years old in 1968, so the age would be a little high, but still possible…

If the phantom was only 18 in 1946, then he would have been 40 in 1968…

Still a little too old, but still with in the range of possibility…

The "the Black Dahlia murderer" and the "Texarkana phantom" both committed crimes which were very, very similar to zodiac.

the black dahlia

·On January 21, 1947, a person claiming to be Short’s killer placed a phone call to the office of James Richardson, the editor of the Los Angeles Examiner, congratulating Richardson on the newspaper’s coverage of the case, and stated he planned on eventually turning himself in, but not before allowing police to pursue him further.[27] Additionally, the caller told Richardson to "expect some souvenirs of Beth Short in the mail -Wikipedia

·On January 24, a suspicious manila envelope was discovered by a U.S. Postal Service worker: The envelope had been addressed to "The Los Angeles Examiner and other Los Angeles papers" with individual words that had been cut-and-pasted from newspaper clippings; additionally, a large message on the face of the envelope read: "Here is Dahlia’s belongings [,] letter to follow".[27] The envelope contained Short’s birth certificate, business cards, photographs, names written on pieces of paper, and an address book with the name Mark Hansen embossed on the cover.[56] The packet had been carefully cleaned with gasoline, similarly to Short’s body, which led police to suspect the packet had been sent directly by her killer.[57] Despite the efforts to clean the packet, several partial fingerprints were lifted from the envelope and sent to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for testing; however, the prints were compromised in transit and thus could not be properly analyzed.[58] The same day the packet was received by the Examiner, a handbag and a black suede shoe were reported to have been seen on top of a garbage can in an alley a short distance from Norton Avenue, 2 miles (3.2 km) from where Short’s body had been discovered. The items were recovered by police, but they had also been wiped clean with gasoline, destroying any fingerprints. -Wikipedia

·On January 26, another letter was received by the Examiner, this time handwritten, which read: "Here it is. Turning in Wed., Jan. 29, 10 am. Had my fun at police. Black Dahlia Avenger".[62] The letter also named a location at which the supposed killer would turn himself in. Police waited at the location on the morning of January 29, but the alleged killer did not appear.[62] Instead, at 1:00pm, The Examiner offices received another cut-and-pasted letter, which read: "Have changed my mind. You would not give me a square deal. Dahlia killing was justified.

( "Dahlia killing was justified" and "bates had to die" seem to be conveying the same message… )

The "black dahlia murderer", the "Texarkana phantom", and the "zodiac killer" all seem to commit similar crimes in similar fashion, leading me to go way out on a limb and speculate "could these all be the same person? Is that even possible?"

Well, it actually is possible, just very, very, unlikely. I mean, if the phantom was very young, between 16 and 20 years old, he would have been in his late thirties or early forties when the zodiac crimes were committed, which is a reasonable age range for zodiac. So, perhaps after Texarkana the killer goes to southern California, where he commits the "black dahlia murder". Around 20 years or so goes by and the Cheri jo bates case occurs in southern California, at which point the killer moves north to the bay and the zodiac crimes commence…

I know this is all incredibly unlikely, and I am not trying to make a case here, I am simply speculating just for the fun of it, I don’t take these ideas seriously and I am not presenting them as facts or a case. This is all just for fun

hi z
not the zodiac, just another classic example of a thrill killer serial killer-like son of sam, monster of florence and zodiac

Yeah, I am 99% certain that you are right, however, this was more of a "could it be possible? And if so what would that look like" type of conversation.

I thought I made it clear that I was not building a case or doing serious investigation here, more of speculation for conversations sake.

However, I see clear differences with the killers you mentioned, and insane similarities with the "Texarkana phantom" and the "black dahlia murderer", leading to my wanting to speculate on the topic.