The signature of the Zodiac and Phantom couldn’t be more different. The only thing they have in common is victimology. If there’s any connection, it’s that Zodiac read about the Texarkana series in a detective magazine at some point and found something morbid to dwell on therein.

Couldn’t be more different? I respectfully disagree, let’s compare:

·Texarkana phantom
At around 11:55 p.m. on Friday, February 22, 1946, Jimmy Hollis, age 25, and his girlfriend, Mary Jeanne Larey, age 19, were attacked while parked on a secluded road known as a lovers’ lane.[5] The attack happened on a lateral road off of Richmond Road, a mile north of the addition known as Beverly. According to a fourteen-page statement by Hollis, the attack happened about 50 feet (15 m) off Richmond Road on an unpaved street, about 100 yards from the last row of city homes.[6]

The couple arrived at the scene around 11:45 p.m. After about ten minutes, a man walked up to Hollis’ driver-side door and flashed a flashlight in his face, blinding him. Hollis, not sure if it was a prank or if he had been mistaken for someone else, told the man, "Fellow, you’ve got me mixed up with someone else. You’ve got the wrong man."[7] The man had a pistol and told him something like, "I don’t want to kill you fellow, so do what I say",[8] and ordered them to get out of the car.

·zodiac at blue rock springs
Twenty-two year-old waitress, wife and mother Darlene Ferrin was a fun-loving free spirit with many friends and male admirers. On the night of the July 4th, Darlene and her friend Mike Mageau had driven to the Blue Rock Springs Park in Vallejo, California. As they sat inside Darlene’s Corvair, another vehicle entered the parking lot and abruptly left the area. The vehicle returned a few minutes later and parked behind the Corvair. A man holding a light emerged from the car and walked toward Darlene and Mike. Without warning, the man pointed a 9mm pistol at the passenger window and opened fire.

·compare
·Both a Young man and young woman targeted as victims
·Both at "Lovers lane" areas
·both attacks occurred near midnight
·Both couples were attacked a short time after arriving in the lovers lane area
·Both attacks involved the attacker approaching the couple in a car and blinding them with a flash-light
(The phantom also wore a homemade mask, and zodiac wore a home-made mask at lake berryessa)

…and on and on.

This was kind of fun, I am going to create a detailed and in depth comparison like the one above comparing zodiac to the Texarkana phantom as well as the black dahlia murderer.

…let’s try a quick black dahlia

·The black dahlia

·On January 21, 1947, a person claiming to be Short’s killer placed a phone call to the office of James Richardson, the editor of the Los Angeles Examiner, congratulating Richardson on the newspaper’s coverage of the case, and stated he planned on eventually turning himself in, but not before allowing police to pursue him further.[27] Additionally, the caller told Richardson to "expect some souvenirs of Beth Short in the mail -Wikipedia

·Zodiac made telephone calls confessing, had an obsession with newspaper coverage, wrote to the news papers, and seemed to taunt the police and enjoy the police pursuit of him.

·Dahlia
On January 24, a suspicious manila envelope was discovered by a U.S. Postal Service worker: The envelope had been addressed to "The Los Angeles Examiner and other Los Angeles papers" with individual words that had been cut-and-pasted from newspaper clippings; additionally, a large message on the face of the envelope read: "Here is Dahlia’s belongings [,] letter to follow".[27] The envelope contained Short’s birth certificate, business cards, photographs, names written on pieces of paper, and an address book with the name Mark Hansen embossed on the cover.[56] The packet had been carefully cleaned with gasoline, similarly to Short’s body, which led police to suspect the packet had been sent directly by her killer.[57] Despite the efforts to clean the packet, several partial fingerprints were lifted from the envelope and sent to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for testing; however, the prints were compromised in transit and thus could not be properly analyzed.[58] The same day the packet was received by the Examiner, a handbag and a black suede shoe were reported to have been seen on top of a garbage can in an alley a short distance from Norton Avenue, 2 miles (3.2 km) from where Short’s body had been discovered. The items were recovered by police, but they had also been wiped clean with gasoline, destroying any fingerprints. -Wikipedia

·Zodiac
Both Mailed letters to the press, both to more than one press outlet, containing belongings or pieces of clothing from the victim. Both zodiac and the dahlia murderer seemed to be sending clews and both were mindful of not leaving fingerprints.

·Dahlia
·On January 26, another letter was received by the Examiner, this time handwritten, which read: "Here it is. Turning in Wed., Jan. 29, 10 am. Had my fun at police. Black Dahlia Avenger".[62] The letter also named a location at which the supposed killer would turn himself in. Police waited at the location on the morning of January 29, but the alleged killer did not appear.[62] Instead, at 1:00pm, The Examiner offices received another cut-and-pasted letter, which read: "Have changed my mind. You would not give me a square deal. Dahlia killing was justified

·Zodiac
Both sent further letters. Both sent letters which contained specific dates and times, both send specific locations. Both make mention of playing a game or having fun with police. When the dahlia murderer claims his murder was justified it is very similar to zodiac’s "bates had to die" letters…

And on and on…

Like I said, I will make a complete and detailed version of comparisons like this fairly soon.

The signature of the Zodiac and Phantom couldn’t be more different. The only thing they have in common is victimology. If there’s any connection, it’s that Zodiac read about the Texarkana series in a detective magazine at some point and found something morbid to dwell on therein.

Couldn’t be more different? I respectfully disagree, let’s compare:

·Texarkana phantom
At around 11:55 p.m. on Friday, February 22, 1946, Jimmy Hollis, age 25, and his girlfriend, Mary Jeanne Larey, age 19, were attacked while parked on a secluded road known as a lovers’ lane.[5] The attack happened on a lateral road off of Richmond Road, a mile north of the addition known as Beverly. According to a fourteen-page statement by Hollis, the attack happened about 50 feet (15 m) off Richmond Road on an unpaved street, about 100 yards from the last row of city homes.[6]

The couple arrived at the scene around 11:45 p.m. After about ten minutes, a man walked up to Hollis’ driver-side door and flashed a flashlight in his face, blinding him. Hollis, not sure if it was a prank or if he had been mistaken for someone else, told the man, "Fellow, you’ve got me mixed up with someone else. You’ve got the wrong man."[7] The man had a pistol and told him something like, "I don’t want to kill you fellow, so do what I say",[8] and ordered them to get out of the car.

·zodiac at blue rock springs
Twenty-two year-old waitress, wife and mother Darlene Ferrin was a fun-loving free spirit with many friends and male admirers. On the night of the July 4th, Darlene and her friend Mike Mageau had driven to the Blue Rock Springs Park in Vallejo, California. As they sat inside Darlene’s Corvair, another vehicle entered the parking lot and abruptly left the area. The vehicle returned a few minutes later and parked behind the Corvair. A man holding a light emerged from the car and walked toward Darlene and Mike. Without warning, the man pointed a 9mm pistol at the passenger window and opened fire.

·compare
·Both a Young man and young woman targeted as victims
·Both at "Lovers lane" areas
·both attacks occurred near midnight
·Both couples were attacked a short time after arriving in the lovers lane area
·Both attacks involved the attacker approaching the couple in a car and blinding them with a flash-light
(The phantom also wore a homemade mask, and zodiac wore a home-made mask at lake berryessa)

…and on and on.

This was kind of fun, I am going to create a detailed and in depth comparison like the one above comparing zodiac to the Texarkana phantom as well as the black dahlia murderer.

…let’s try a quick black dahlia

·The black dahlia

·On January 21, 1947, a person claiming to be Short’s killer placed a phone call to the office of James Richardson, the editor of the Los Angeles Examiner, congratulating Richardson on the newspaper’s coverage of the case, and stated he planned on eventually turning himself in, but not before allowing police to pursue him further.[27] Additionally, the caller told Richardson to "expect some souvenirs of Beth Short in the mail -Wikipedia

·Zodiac made telephone calls confessing, had an obsession with newspaper coverage, wrote to the news papers, and seemed to taunt the police and enjoy the police pursuit of him.

·Dahlia
On January 24, a suspicious manila envelope was discovered by a U.S. Postal Service worker: The envelope had been addressed to "The Los Angeles Examiner and other Los Angeles papers" with individual words that had been cut-and-pasted from newspaper clippings; additionally, a large message on the face of the envelope read: "Here is Dahlia’s belongings [,] letter to follow".[27] The envelope contained Short’s birth certificate, business cards, photographs, names written on pieces of paper, and an address book with the name Mark Hansen embossed on the cover.[56] The packet had been carefully cleaned with gasoline, similarly to Short’s body, which led police to suspect the packet had been sent directly by her killer.[57] Despite the efforts to clean the packet, several partial fingerprints were lifted from the envelope and sent to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for testing; however, the prints were compromised in transit and thus could not be properly analyzed.[58] The same day the packet was received by the Examiner, a handbag and a black suede shoe were reported to have been seen on top of a garbage can in an alley a short distance from Norton Avenue, 2 miles (3.2 km) from where Short’s body had been discovered. The items were recovered by police, but they had also been wiped clean with gasoline, destroying any fingerprints. -Wikipedia

·Zodiac
Both Mailed letters to the press, both to more than one press outlet, containing belongings or pieces of clothing from the victim. Both zodiac and the dahlia murderer seemed to be sending clews and both were mindful of not leaving fingerprints.

·Dahlia
·On January 26, another letter was received by the Examiner, this time handwritten, which read: "Here it is. Turning in Wed., Jan. 29, 10 am. Had my fun at police. Black Dahlia Avenger".[62] The letter also named a location at which the supposed killer would turn himself in. Police waited at the location on the morning of January 29, but the alleged killer did not appear.[62] Instead, at 1:00pm, The Examiner offices received another cut-and-pasted letter, which read: "Have changed my mind. You would not give me a square deal. Dahlia killing was justified

·Zodiac
Both sent further letters. Both sent letters which contained specific dates and times, both send specific locations. Both make mention of playing a game or having fun with police. When the dahlia murderer claims his murder was justified it is very similar to zodiac’s "bates had to die" letters…

And on and on…

Like I said, I will make a complete and detailed version of comparisons like this fairly soon.

That the Phantom wore a mask remains in question. There is only one source for this – Larey – and her companion, Hollis, was adamant that his attacker was NOT wearing a mask.

Further, the Phantom degraded the male victims by forcing them to partially disrobe. In at least one of the cases, he sexually assaulted the female victim.

In only one case did the Zodiac spend a prolonged amount of time with his victim(s), talking to them. Sexual assault was not on his mind, nor was the added attention to the male victims. (Curiously, the Phantom murders exhibited evidence of overkill against the males while two of the Zodiac’s male victims lived.) So yes, I contend that victimology aside, these cases couldn’t be more different.

Also: why are you talking about the Black Dahlia?

The signature of the Zodiac and Phantom couldn’t be more different. The only thing they have in common is victimology. If there’s any connection, it’s that Zodiac read about the Texarkana series in a detective magazine at some point and found something morbid to dwell on therein.

Couldn’t be more different? I respectfully disagree, let’s compare:

·Texarkana phantom
At around 11:55 p.m. on Friday, February 22, 1946, Jimmy Hollis, age 25, and his girlfriend, Mary Jeanne Larey, age 19, were attacked while parked on a secluded road known as a lovers’ lane.[5] The attack happened on a lateral road off of Richmond Road, a mile north of the addition known as Beverly. According to a fourteen-page statement by Hollis, the attack happened about 50 feet (15 m) off Richmond Road on an unpaved street, about 100 yards from the last row of city homes.[6]

The couple arrived at the scene around 11:45 p.m. After about ten minutes, a man walked up to Hollis’ driver-side door and flashed a flashlight in his face, blinding him. Hollis, not sure if it was a prank or if he had been mistaken for someone else, told the man, "Fellow, you’ve got me mixed up with someone else. You’ve got the wrong man."[7] The man had a pistol and told him something like, "I don’t want to kill you fellow, so do what I say",[8] and ordered them to get out of the car.

·zodiac at blue rock springs
Twenty-two year-old waitress, wife and mother Darlene Ferrin was a fun-loving free spirit with many friends and male admirers. On the night of the July 4th, Darlene and her friend Mike Mageau had driven to the Blue Rock Springs Park in Vallejo, California. As they sat inside Darlene’s Corvair, another vehicle entered the parking lot and abruptly left the area. The vehicle returned a few minutes later and parked behind the Corvair. A man holding a light emerged from the car and walked toward Darlene and Mike. Without warning, the man pointed a 9mm pistol at the passenger window and opened fire.

·compare
·Both a Young man and young woman targeted as victims
·Both at "Lovers lane" areas
·both attacks occurred near midnight
·Both couples were attacked a short time after arriving in the lovers lane area
·Both attacks involved the attacker approaching the couple in a car and blinding them with a flash-light
(The phantom also wore a homemade mask, and zodiac wore a home-made mask at lake berryessa)

…and on and on.

This was kind of fun, I am going to create a detailed and in depth comparison like the one above comparing zodiac to the Texarkana phantom as well as the black dahlia murderer.

…let’s try a quick black dahlia

·The black dahlia

·On January 21, 1947, a person claiming to be Short’s killer placed a phone call to the office of James Richardson, the editor of the Los Angeles Examiner, congratulating Richardson on the newspaper’s coverage of the case, and stated he planned on eventually turning himself in, but not before allowing police to pursue him further.[27] Additionally, the caller told Richardson to "expect some souvenirs of Beth Short in the mail -Wikipedia

·Zodiac made telephone calls confessing, had an obsession with newspaper coverage, wrote to the news papers, and seemed to taunt the police and enjoy the police pursuit of him.

·Dahlia
On January 24, a suspicious manila envelope was discovered by a U.S. Postal Service worker: The envelope had been addressed to "The Los Angeles Examiner and other Los Angeles papers" with individual words that had been cut-and-pasted from newspaper clippings; additionally, a large message on the face of the envelope read: "Here is Dahlia’s belongings [,] letter to follow".[27] The envelope contained Short’s birth certificate, business cards, photographs, names written on pieces of paper, and an address book with the name Mark Hansen embossed on the cover.[56] The packet had been carefully cleaned with gasoline, similarly to Short’s body, which led police to suspect the packet had been sent directly by her killer.[57] Despite the efforts to clean the packet, several partial fingerprints were lifted from the envelope and sent to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for testing; however, the prints were compromised in transit and thus could not be properly analyzed.[58] The same day the packet was received by the Examiner, a handbag and a black suede shoe were reported to have been seen on top of a garbage can in an alley a short distance from Norton Avenue, 2 miles (3.2 km) from where Short’s body had been discovered. The items were recovered by police, but they had also been wiped clean with gasoline, destroying any fingerprints. -Wikipedia

·Zodiac
Both Mailed letters to the press, both to more than one press outlet, containing belongings or pieces of clothing from the victim. Both zodiac and the dahlia murderer seemed to be sending clews and both were mindful of not leaving fingerprints.

·Dahlia
·On January 26, another letter was received by the Examiner, this time handwritten, which read: "Here it is. Turning in Wed., Jan. 29, 10 am. Had my fun at police. Black Dahlia Avenger".[62] The letter also named a location at which the supposed killer would turn himself in. Police waited at the location on the morning of January 29, but the alleged killer did not appear.[62] Instead, at 1:00pm, The Examiner offices received another cut-and-pasted letter, which read: "Have changed my mind. You would not give me a square deal. Dahlia killing was justified

·Zodiac
Both sent further letters. Both sent letters which contained specific dates and times, both send specific locations. Both make mention of playing a game or having fun with police. When the dahlia murderer claims his murder was justified it is very similar to zodiac’s "bates had to die" letters…

And on and on…

Like I said, I will make a complete and detailed version of comparisons like this fairly soon.

That the Phantom wore a mask remains in question. There is only one source for this – Larey – and her companion, Hollis, was adamant that his attacker was NOT wearing a mask.

Further, the Phantom degraded the male victims by forcing them to partially disrobe. In at least one of the cases, he sexually assaulted the female victim.

In only one case did the Zodiac spend a prolonged amount of time with his victim(s), talking to them. Sexual assault was not on his mind, nor was the added attention to the male victims. (Curiously, the Phantom murders exhibited evidence of overkill against the males while two of the Zodiac’s male victims lived.) So yes, I contend that victimology aside, these cases couldn’t be more different.

Also: why are you talking about the Black Dahlia?

Hi pettibon
good points..but isn’t the one female victim its disputed she was raped?

I dont think they are the same person obviously but I disagree strongly when you say they could nt be more different. They are very similar. in fact they are in the same category of serial killer. the lovers lane or thrill killer type serial killer.

Ted bundy and Zodiac couldnt be more different as SKs. Zodiac and the Texarcana phantom are very similar.

but i agree with you on the black dahlia.

It’s disputed, yes, but one victim, Larey, was raped with the barrel of a pistol. That sexual element is not present in the Zodiac crimes.

I’d also contend that "lover’s lane killer" is not really a type; Melvin Rees hunted lover’s lanes, as did Ed Edwards, and they were both rapists who spent ample time at the scene and engaged in staging. I would expect the Phantom to have more in common with either of those killers. Meanwhile, the Colonial Parkway Killer(s) abducted their victims to secondary crime scenes and also staged elements of the primary scenes. Zodiac, David Berkowitz, and the Atlanta Lover’s Lane Killer murdered their victims in-situ, did not stage, nor did they engage in any overt sexual or even physical activity with their victims.

Though the victimology is identical, we’re still looking at two, possibly three different types of offenders for all of these lover’s lane serial killings. I think the Phantom may well have been an influence on the Zodiac but I don’t think that, placed side-by-side, the crimes they committed were all that alike.

It’s disputed, yes, but one victim, Larey, was raped with the barrel of a pistol. That sexual element is not present in the Zodiac crimes.

I’d also contend that "lover’s lane killer" is not really a type; Melvin Rees hunted lover’s lanes, as did Ed Edwards, and they were both rapists who spent ample time at the scene and engaged in staging. I would expect the Phantom to have more in common with either of those killers. Meanwhile, the Colonial Parkway Killer(s) abducted their victims to secondary crime scenes and also staged elements of the primary scenes. Zodiac, David Berkowitz, and the Atlanta Lover’s Lane Killer murdered their victims in-situ, did not stage, nor did they engage in any overt sexual or even physical activity with their victims.

Though the victimology is identical, we’re still looking at two, possibly three different types of offenders for all of these lover’s lane serial killings. I think the Phantom may well have been an influence on the Zodiac but I don’t think that, placed side-by-side, the crimes they committed were all that alike.

Hi PJ
Ill respectfully disagree.

the other examples you gave where rape was a strong element of the crime, regardless of where it happened, is not related to as I call it Lovers lane/thrill killer. rape was not a motive at all in Zodiac, SoS, or the Phantom.

Maybe ill just take lovers lane out or it should be a sub category of the Thrill killer SK. The beltway sniper, which I lived through, I would place in this category of Thrill Killer. although there is some overlap with financial gain serial killer because they did write a letter trying to get money.

But there is always problems when you try to categorize or put a label on types of serial killers, because there is always going to be some variations and as I said some overlap.

so if we just take the labels off for the ease of argument and compare Zodiac and the Phantom head to head in behavior and crime scenes They are undisputably similar. And I think Zresearch has done a good job at specifically pointing out the similarities. Sure of course there are differences but IMHO the major similarities far out weight the minor differences.

The signature of the Zodiac and Phantom couldn’t be more different. The only thing they have in common is victimology. If there’s any connection, it’s that Zodiac read about the Texarkana series in a detective magazine at some point and found something morbid to dwell on therein.

Do you think that zodiac enjoyed detective comics books and paid such close attention to crime in the news papers is because he was law enforcement? I mean, the guy seems to be obsessed with detective and crime comics, and he also seems to have a pretty good idea of what the police are and are not capable of. I’m sure a good deal of cops from that time period loved all those detective stories and comics, or at least did when they were kids…

…zodiac always reminds me of a cop, from the way he behaved at blue rock springs approaching the car with a flashlight and firing, to the way he took his control of the situation and his victims at lake berryessa, at berryessa he approaches with his weapon drawn, he gives clear, short, direct commands, "don’t move!", "get on the ground!" He then restrains his victims using rope, similar to an officer handcuffing a suspect, I mean, the methods by which he was operating were very police like…

The signature of the Zodiac and Phantom couldn’t be more different. The only thing they have in common is victimology. If there’s any connection, it’s that Zodiac read about the Texarkana series in a detective magazine at some point and found something morbid to dwell on therein.

Couldn’t be more different? I respectfully disagree, let’s compare:

·Texarkana phantom
At around 11:55 p.m. on Friday, February 22, 1946, Jimmy Hollis, age 25, and his girlfriend, Mary Jeanne Larey, age 19, were attacked while parked on a secluded road known as a lovers’ lane.[5] The attack happened on a lateral road off of Richmond Road, a mile north of the addition known as Beverly. According to a fourteen-page statement by Hollis, the attack happened about 50 feet (15 m) off Richmond Road on an unpaved street, about 100 yards from the last row of city homes.[6]

The couple arrived at the scene around 11:45 p.m. After about ten minutes, a man walked up to Hollis’ driver-side door and flashed a flashlight in his face, blinding him. Hollis, not sure if it was a prank or if he had been mistaken for someone else, told the man, "Fellow, you’ve got me mixed up with someone else. You’ve got the wrong man."[7] The man had a pistol and told him something like, "I don’t want to kill you fellow, so do what I say",[8] and ordered them to get out of the car.

·zodiac at blue rock springs
Twenty-two year-old waitress, wife and mother Darlene Ferrin was a fun-loving free spirit with many friends and male admirers. On the night of the July 4th, Darlene and her friend Mike Mageau had driven to the Blue Rock Springs Park in Vallejo, California. As they sat inside Darlene’s Corvair, another vehicle entered the parking lot and abruptly left the area. The vehicle returned a few minutes later and parked behind the Corvair. A man holding a light emerged from the car and walked toward Darlene and Mike. Without warning, the man pointed a 9mm pistol at the passenger window and opened fire.

·compare
·Both a Young man and young woman targeted as victims
·Both at "Lovers lane" areas
·both attacks occurred near midnight
·Both couples were attacked a short time after arriving in the lovers lane area
·Both attacks involved the attacker approaching the couple in a car and blinding them with a flash-light
(The phantom also wore a homemade mask, and zodiac wore a home-made mask at lake berryessa)

…and on and on.

This was kind of fun, I am going to create a detailed and in depth comparison like the one above comparing zodiac to the Texarkana phantom as well as the black dahlia murderer.

…let’s try a quick black dahlia

·The black dahlia

·On January 21, 1947, a person claiming to be Short’s killer placed a phone call to the office of James Richardson, the editor of the Los Angeles Examiner, congratulating Richardson on the newspaper’s coverage of the case, and stated he planned on eventually turning himself in, but not before allowing police to pursue him further.[27] Additionally, the caller told Richardson to "expect some souvenirs of Beth Short in the mail -Wikipedia

·Zodiac made telephone calls confessing, had an obsession with newspaper coverage, wrote to the news papers, and seemed to taunt the police and enjoy the police pursuit of him.

·Dahlia
On January 24, a suspicious manila envelope was discovered by a U.S. Postal Service worker: The envelope had been addressed to "The Los Angeles Examiner and other Los Angeles papers" with individual words that had been cut-and-pasted from newspaper clippings; additionally, a large message on the face of the envelope read: "Here is Dahlia’s belongings [,] letter to follow".[27] The envelope contained Short’s birth certificate, business cards, photographs, names written on pieces of paper, and an address book with the name Mark Hansen embossed on the cover.[56] The packet had been carefully cleaned with gasoline, similarly to Short’s body, which led police to suspect the packet had been sent directly by her killer.[57] Despite the efforts to clean the packet, several partial fingerprints were lifted from the envelope and sent to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for testing; however, the prints were compromised in transit and thus could not be properly analyzed.[58] The same day the packet was received by the Examiner, a handbag and a black suede shoe were reported to have been seen on top of a garbage can in an alley a short distance from Norton Avenue, 2 miles (3.2 km) from where Short’s body had been discovered. The items were recovered by police, but they had also been wiped clean with gasoline, destroying any fingerprints. -Wikipedia

·Zodiac
Both Mailed letters to the press, both to more than one press outlet, containing belongings or pieces of clothing from the victim. Both zodiac and the dahlia murderer seemed to be sending clews and both were mindful of not leaving fingerprints.

·Dahlia
·On January 26, another letter was received by the Examiner, this time handwritten, which read: "Here it is. Turning in Wed., Jan. 29, 10 am. Had my fun at police. Black Dahlia Avenger".[62] The letter also named a location at which the supposed killer would turn himself in. Police waited at the location on the morning of January 29, but the alleged killer did not appear.[62] Instead, at 1:00pm, The Examiner offices received another cut-and-pasted letter, which read: "Have changed my mind. You would not give me a square deal. Dahlia killing was justified

·Zodiac
Both sent further letters. Both sent letters which contained specific dates and times, both send specific locations. Both make mention of playing a game or having fun with police. When the dahlia murderer claims his murder was justified it is very similar to zodiac’s "bates had to die" letters…

And on and on…

Like I said, I will make a complete and detailed version of comparisons like this fairly soon.

That the Phantom wore a mask remains in question. There is only one source for this – Larey – and her companion, Hollis, was adamant that his attacker was NOT wearing a mask.

Further, the Phantom degraded the male victims by forcing them to partially disrobe. In at least one of the cases, he sexually assaulted the female victim.

In only one case did the Zodiac spend a prolonged amount of time with his victim(s), talking to them. Sexual assault was not on his mind, nor was the added attention to the male victims. (Curiously, the Phantom murders exhibited evidence of overkill against the males while two of the Zodiac’s male victims lived.) So yes, I contend that victimology aside, these cases couldn’t be more different.

Also: why are you talking about the Black Dahlia?

Hollis did not say the man was not wearing a mask, he said he did not notice the mask because he was blinded by the flashlight before being beaten.

Larey described him as a man with a white mask over his head, with cutout places for his eyes and mouth. Because Hollis was blinded by the flashlight before being beaten, he did not notice a mask. -Wikipedia

The only survivor to get a good look at the phantom describes him as wearing a white "gunny sack" mask with circular eye-holes cut into it. Seems pretty specific, why would a witness add such a specific detail were it not true?

Onto the next note, It seems to me that the phantom probably did not make Hollis take off his pants to "degrade" or "embarrass" him, he probably did it because he didn’t want Hollis to be able to quickly chase after him if the blows to the head failed to knock him unconscious…it’s hard to run or fight back with your pants around your ankles.

Ok, next point:

First, every crime is unique, and even a killer with a fairly set modus operandi will make deviations from crime to crime, there will.always be differences, while its the similarities which are key.

You can not say that only the victimology was the only similarity, because it wasn’t, i’ll name a few:
·1: lovers lane
·2: blinded with flash light
·3: near midnight
·4: mask
· :Etc…

Then there are little details like ·The phantom and zodiac are both 6 feet tall

…You can actually read the reports of the phantom, fully knowing the details of the reports from the zodiac case and don’t see any similarities?

there were actually more similarities than differences.

If you compared Paul stine to lake berryessa and did not know that the same individual was responsible, you could probably talk all day about how the crimes must have been committed by different people because of all of the differences, There are going to be differences, it’s the similarities which say a lot more.

Ok onto the next note:

The black dahlia was brought up because the point of the thread after the initial "important stuff" had been gone over was to speculate if the phantom, the black dahlia murderer, and zodiac could have been the same person.

All three of these cases share striking similarities, and the phantom and the black dahlia share a time frame. Yes, these crimes were probably committed by three different people, but the point was to ask "could all three cases have been the same individual, would that be possible?" And "if possible what would that look like?"

Also, the phantom didn’t spend any more time with his victims than he had to, and neither did zodiac, so saying the phantom spent more time with his victims is not accurate, you have to look at the specifics of every phantom attack as well as every zodiac attack.

The signature of the Zodiac and Phantom couldn’t be more different. The only thing they have in common is victimology. If there’s any connection, it’s that Zodiac read about the Texarkana series in a detective magazine at some point and found something morbid to dwell on therein.

Do you think that zodiac enjoyed detective comics books and paid such close attention to crime in the news papers is because he was law enforcement? I mean, the guy seems to be obsessed with detective and crime comics, and he also seems to have a pretty good idea of what the police are and are not capable of. I’m sure a good deal of cops from that time period loved all those detective stories and comics, or at least did when they were kids…

…zodiac always reminds me of a cop, from the way he behaved at blue rock springs approaching the car with a flashlight and firing, to the way he took his control of the situation and his victims at lake berryessa, at berryessa he approaches with his weapon drawn, he gives clear, short, direct commands, "don’t move!", "get on the ground!" He then restrains his victims using rope, similar to an officer handcuffing a suspect, I mean, the methods by which he was operating were very police like…

I do. I think he was most certainly a comics and detective mag junkie and probably had a bit of familiarity with police tactics through these media as well as popular movies and television of the day. I don’t think he was a cop – he was far too sloppy for that – but I think he perhaps at one point wanted to be and was jealous of the authority and power society grants to police officers when his reality was likely far more ineffectual.

The signature of the Zodiac and Phantom couldn’t be more different. The only thing they have in common is victimology. If there’s any connection, it’s that Zodiac read about the Texarkana series in a detective magazine at some point and found something morbid to dwell on therein.

Do you think that zodiac enjoyed detective comics books and paid such close attention to crime in the news papers is because he was law enforcement? I mean, the guy seems to be obsessed with detective and crime comics, and he also seems to have a pretty good idea of what the police are and are not capable of. I’m sure a good deal of cops from that time period loved all those detective stories and comics, or at least did when they were kids…

…zodiac always reminds me of a cop, from the way he behaved at blue rock springs approaching the car with a flashlight and firing, to the way he took his control of the situation and his victims at lake berryessa, at berryessa he approaches with his weapon drawn, he gives clear, short, direct commands, "don’t move!", "get on the ground!" He then restrains his victims using rope, similar to an officer handcuffing a suspect, I mean, the methods by which he was operating were very police like…

I do. I think he was most certainly a comics and detective mag junkie and probably had a bit of familiarity with police tactics through these media as well as popular movies and television of the day. I don’t think he was a cop – he was far too sloppy for that – but I think he perhaps at one point wanted to be and was jealous of the authority and power society grants to police officers when his reality was likely far more ineffectual.

Hi PJ
agree with this post.I think he was most definitely military or ex military-probably navy

The signature of the Zodiac and Phantom couldn’t be more different. The only thing they have in common is victimology. If there’s any connection, it’s that Zodiac read about the Texarkana series in a detective magazine at some point and found something morbid to dwell on therein.

Do you think that zodiac enjoyed detective comics books and paid such close attention to crime in the news papers is because he was law enforcement? I mean, the guy seems to be obsessed with detective and crime comics, and he also seems to have a pretty good idea of what the police are and are not capable of. I’m sure a good deal of cops from that time period loved all those detective stories and comics, or at least did when they were kids…

…zodiac always reminds me of a cop, from the way he behaved at blue rock springs approaching the car with a flashlight and firing, to the way he took his control of the situation and his victims at lake berryessa, at berryessa he approaches with his weapon drawn, he gives clear, short, direct commands, "don’t move!", "get on the ground!" He then restrains his victims using rope, similar to an officer handcuffing a suspect, I mean, the methods by which he was operating were very police like…

I do. I think he was most certainly a comics and detective mag junkie and probably had a bit of familiarity with police tactics through these media as well as popular movies and television of the day. I don’t think he was a cop – he was far too sloppy for that – but I think he perhaps at one point wanted to be and was jealous of the authority and power society grants to police officers when his reality was likely far more ineffectual.

Interesting.

I could see a "police enthusiast" or "police wanna-be" being just as likely.

The signature of the Zodiac and Phantom couldn’t be more different. The only thing they have in common is victimology. If there’s any connection, it’s that Zodiac read about the Texarkana series in a detective magazine at some point and found something morbid to dwell on therein.

Do you think that zodiac enjoyed detective comics books and paid such close attention to crime in the news papers is because he was law enforcement? I mean, the guy seems to be obsessed with detective and crime comics, and he also seems to have a pretty good idea of what the police are and are not capable of. I’m sure a good deal of cops from that time period loved all those detective stories and comics, or at least did when they were kids…

…zodiac always reminds me of a cop, from the way he behaved at blue rock springs approaching the car with a flashlight and firing, to the way he took his control of the situation and his victims at lake berryessa, at berryessa he approaches with his weapon drawn, he gives clear, short, direct commands, "don’t move!", "get on the ground!" He then restrains his victims using rope, similar to an officer handcuffing a suspect, I mean, the methods by which he was operating were very police like…

I do. I think he was most certainly a comics and detective mag junkie and probably had a bit of familiarity with police tactics through these media as well as popular movies and television of the day. I don’t think he was a cop – he was far too sloppy for that – but I think he perhaps at one point wanted to be and was jealous of the authority and power society grants to police officers when his reality was likely far more ineffectual.

Hi PJ
agree with this post.I think he was most definitely military or ex military-probably navy

I have thought about that as well.

Though where do most ex-military seek employment when they are done serving? Law enforcement is Pretty common.

He could have been a law enforcement officer, or ex-military as well as a law enforcement officer, or he could have been a law enforcement and military enthusiast who was neither, but it does seem to be a clear influence.

Did you know the FBI released the files this year?

https://vault.fbi.gov/texarkana-phantom … ht-murders

There is a full hand print. https://www.texarkanagazette.com/news/t … 5514/#void

Like fingers, palm, the whole lot. I believe this was recovered from the Starks home invasion.

Left hand

EDIT:

Added right hand.

Did you know the FBI released the files this year?

https://vault.fbi.gov/texarkana-phantom … ht-murders

There is a full hand print. https://www.texarkanagazette.com/news/t … 5514/#void

Like fingers, palm, the whole lot. I believe this was recovered from the Starks home invasion.

Oh wow, I never knew they released files this year I will have to check them out. Thanks.

More than welcome. I was always wondering why no one was ever charged with the murders given how viable the suspects Swinney and Tennison seemed. I went digging more and it looks like this print would be one good reason why it isn’t them. Maybe investigators felt the Starks case might have been someone else but that print is as good as it gets.

There is also an alleged communication on that gazette link.

I have not read the whole documents. I would like to get the time but Lord of Rings size again. Span some months covering that one.

I see they even got a profile I was interested in and followed up on it.

I speculated that after returning from WWII the killer found that his girlfriend, fiancee, wife, had gone out with another man and they would go to these lover’s lane spots. That the killer took revenge on the town because of this and that somehow the Starks were involved and everything led up to this point.

That’s pretty good profiling for 1946 and I think they would do well to stick with it.

Page 29 has a chord loop for a hat the killer maybe left behind. They call it a ‘wind chord’. You know you tie it around your head so the hat doesn’t blow off.

Did you know Virgil Starks was a Deputy Sheriff? Page 13.