On the same evening as the Kathleen Johns abduction, two men, Frederick Beaman and William Horton were traveling on Highway 132, near Highway 33 and Interstate 580 when a man passed them in a white 1959 Buick.
Very entertaining episode. I like the parts, when you and mike have conversations about what you guys think about certain aspects of the case.
You guys have 2 different personalities, know almost everything about the case and it is nice to hear the different thoughts you guys have.
That’s very interesting and a little weird, weird because it was 2 men. Very un-Z like on the surface, IMO. Pulling 2 men over would seem very risky. What was the plan there?
Re: Johns ….. the idea is that she drove 300 miles, pregnant with a newborn to set her car on fire in the middle of nowhere for insurance money. It seems like there should be an easier way. That said, I’m kind of with Morf on this …. that wouldn’t mean her abductor was the Zodiac.
OTOH: it’s odd that this attack occurs, and then a year later there’s a letter postmarked Pleasanton.
Yes, I wholly doubt the insurance money story. This could have been achieved anywhere. But if she escaped into a vineyard only a few hundred metres from her abduction site after approximately 2hrs, one has to question the story or the motives of her abductor. Her story could be genuine, however, there are discrepancies that ask the question.
https://www.zodiacciphers.com/
“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.
A few things…
*How could "Gian Quasar" possibly know where the vineyards were back in 1970? Areas get developed.
*I find nothing suspicious about the people who gave Johns a ride, not walking her in to her destination. Most likely Kathy said "You’ve already helped me so much, please go back on your way, I can take it from here."
*Why would people from Missouri back in 1970, seeing a distressed pregnant woman, be worried about a roadside ambush?
*Unless you are using maps of highway systems from 1970, trying to make time estimates is fruitless. Highways open and close. So, even if Kathy would have needed to drive an average of 80 MPH to get somewhere — using a highway — people do that all the time. And domestic cars from back in the late 1950s through the 1970s were most often built V8s which could maintain incredible speeds especially in a straightish line, even if they might otherwise be clunkers.
*Kathy told me she wasn’t surprised that her car caught fire, as she would rub a couple wires together to get it to start. No key required.
*Unless I am having a brain freeze, at the time of the Bates murder, Kathy was living only about 15 minutes away from the RCC crime scene.
As an example, a 1957 Chevy Bel Air had a top speed of 90 mph. Her vehicle was clunky. But despite this she was pregnant with a 10 month old child, so one would have thought a responsible parent wouldn’t be travelling at an average speed in excess of 80 mph for a journey of around 370 miles. Frequent urination is a common symptom of pregnancy, which only increases over 9 months. So Kathleen would have required several bathroom breaks, which would increase her average speed toward the 90 mark. If she did leave at 4 from San Bernardino, then it’s a moot point.
*Why would people from Missouri back in 1970, seeing a distressed pregnant woman, be worried about a roadside ambush?" Because firstly, people can feign distress, and secondly, these type of ruses are not unheard of. We could also ask the question: Why would a young, pregnant woman, with a 10 month old child not be worried about a man pulling her over on a deserted highway at night, bearing in mind that she had travelled about 370 miles without any apparent problems with her vehicle up to this point. But despite having a young child and another on the way, she did it anyway. The people from Missouri should have considered this possibility, just as Kathleen Johns should have considered pulling over was equally risky. This is why some benevolent and trusting people end up dead.
*I find nothing suspicious about the people who gave Johns a ride, not walking her in to her destination. Most likely Kathy said "You’ve already helped me so much, please go back on your way, I can take it from here." There may be nothing suspicious about the people from Missouri not escorting Kathleen Johns into the police station, but the question was: what would you have done in those circumstances. I know I would have taken the few minutes required to assist the pregnant woman and her young child, who no doubt was extremely distressed, those final few yards. Everything has to be considered when evaluating the veracity of any story.
*Kathy told me she wasn’t surprised that her car caught fire, as she would rub a couple wires together to get it to start. No key required". Whether any key was required, this was the story told in the Graysmith book – and therefore it is reasonable to examine the claim.
https://www.zodiacciphers.com/
“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.
"*How could ‘Gian Quasar’ possibly know where the vineyards were back in 1970?
Areas get developed."
‘Gian Quasar’ didn’t cite any sources relevant to that time, so it’s uncertain
he did know where the vineyards were circa 1970.
Kathleen Johns probably was too hysterical to be sure just where she got
out of the man’s car. Possibly an area with road construction works going on
circa 1970, such as the additional roadworks trucks tracks about South Bird
Road or the additional laneworks resulting from the added bridges built over
the Delta Mendoza Canal or the added rampworks resulting from the construction
of the I-5 cloverleaf where it intersects SR 132;
https://historicaerials.com/location/37 … 32/1967/16
https://historicaerials.com/location/37 … 32/1971/16
"*Why would people from Missouri back in 1970, seeing a distressed pregnant
woman, be worried about a roadside ambush?"
The Manson ‘Family’ murders and their ongoing trial antics were a thing with
national coverage – I imagine by October 1970, even hicks from Mis-soura knew
to be wary of the crazies you might encounter in California.
Ted Bundy described a trademark ruse in which he outfitted himself with crutches or a sling or cast, then asked young women for help in carrying books or other items to his car, where he knocked them unconscious and drove away to murder them. OK, he was a man, but helpless people in discomfort or distress can allay the fears of decent and considerate people.
https://www.zodiacciphers.com/
“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.
Not that it is evidence of anything, but the "couple from Missouri" always struck me as the "girlfriend in Canada" meme from childhood. Fabrications that give enough distance from the truth to never be able to be corroborated.
“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer
I also lack confidence in Gian Quasar’s assessment of where Kathleen John’s escape point was. I do not think his conclusion is supportable in this instance.
On the flip: great episode!
That was too much!
Why would a non-hippie, clean-cut polite man with polished shoes & geeky glasses, wear the bell-bottoms that Kathleen described?
Bell-bottoms were worn by hipsters which the abductor was not. But sailors do indeed wear bell bottoms – since long before they became hippie fashionable.
That was too much!
Why would a non-hippie, clean-cut polite man with polished shoes & geeky glasses, wear the bell-bottoms that Kathleen described?
Bell-bottoms were worn by hipsters which the abductor was not. But sailors do indeed wear bell bottoms – since long before they became hippie fashionable.
Sailors wore them as part of their uniform, not as casual dress. Johns did not describe the man as wearing any uniform.
“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer
The Sacramento Valley is mostly flat. Not many spots to hide especially at roadside. Good luck planning an ambush in that environment. Besides, for all we know everyone in that Missouri car was armed to the hilt.
Nobody wore seat belts back then and everyone drove fast. I was there. Your kid is fussy at bedtime? Put some vodka in his formula. A drunk driver is asleep at the wheel in the interstate? A cop would probably drive him home. It was a different time.
And again, maybe Kathy’s helpers did indeed offer help getting her into the police department and she refused. Or someone from the department came outside and helped her. Who knows. Not everything has to be suspicious.
Bell-bottoms were worn by hipsters
No.
As an example, a 1957 Chevy Bel Air had a top speed of 90 mph.
Maybe as it came from the factory but it was common practice to customize those cars to make them faster. And the "clunky" part might have simply been her ignition for all we know.
Nobody wore seat belts back then and everyone drove fast. I was there. Your kid is fussy at bedtime? Put some vodka in his formula. A drunk driver is asleep at the wheel in the interstate? A cop would probably drive him home. It was a different time.
No.
That was too much!
