As most of us know, Paul Stine was murdered on Oct. 11, 1969. But I want to start a discussion on the Challenge Joe Stine (Paul’s Brother) issued directly to Zodiac, and also the encounter reported by Carol (Paul & Joe’s sister).
Shortly after Zodiac’s letter arrived, along with a portion of Paul Stine’s bloody shirt, announcing he was responsible for murdering the cab driver ‘over by Washington & Maple St last night’, Paul’s Brother , Joe Stine, challenged Zodiac directly using the Chronicle. Joe made the following statement…
"Come and get me! I don’t carry weapons. I don’t feel I need any. I was very close to Paul, and now I want a chance at his killer." Joe also stated his place of employment in the paper.
Zodiac does not take Joe up on his challenge. In fact, he doesn’t even acknowledge it by responding in print. But Carol, the sister of Paul & Joe, did have an unnerving encounter with a man on Highway 132 the same day that Kathy Johns was abducted! Carol reported that she was driving the lonely stretch of Highway 132 when her attention was drawn to her rear view mirror due to the vehicle behind her (the only other one on that road with her) flashing it’s headlights on and off. The vehicle then sped up and pulled alongside Carol’s and was now honking it’s horn. Carol said that the driver seemed to be pointing to her tyre, and trying to say something to her. Carol was suspicious of this vehicle and did not slow down but rather sped up and pulled away from the man and his vehicle.
Zodiac, it seems, may have taken up Joe’s Challenge, after all. But decided that it wouldn’t be Joe he’d target directly (too risky), but he’d respond to Joe’s Challenge by taking another of his siblings away from him?
And also, is it just me, or does the challenge itself pose a question? I would have thought that Law Enforcement, or the Editor of the S.F Chronicle, would seriously have concerns about doing this. They are allowing a member of the public to issue a direct challenge to a serial killer who is at large and that is, obviously, highly dangerous. Joe does not have any idea what Zodiac looks like, but Zodiac knows exactly what Joe looks like. Zodiac could have walked up to him and asked the time and Joe wouldn’t be any wiser. I can only think this challenge was issued with Law Enforcement being very aware of it.
(Ps. If any of the above information is inaccurate, please let me know and i’ll edit it. I have only read one source that states the Carol Stine/Kathy Johns incidents took place on the same day so I am relying on that being correct.)
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
For all we know, Joe may have been working in concert with law-enforcement as the bait for a sting.
For all we know, Joe may have been working in concert with law-enforcement as the bait for a sting.
Very Possible. The remarks Joe made could have been done so after being briefed by Law Enforcement in order to try and provoke Z into reacting, or they could simply be what they seem, the words of a man who’s angry at losing his brother.
Either way, the comments are extremely risky and I don’t think Law Enforcement would advise that Joe do something like that because Law Enforcement would likely be too concerned because Zodiac knows who Joe is, what he looks like, where he works, and what his routine is while Joe has no idea what the Zodiac looks like, who he is etc. And Joe was a Service Station Employee. I wouldn’t mind betting that Zodiac did go into Joe’s Service Station and purchase something just because he knew Joe worked there and may have got another perverse kick out of it? Who knows?
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
There is just no way to prove what happened to Carol happened the same night/weekend as Kathleen Johns. Even Carol was unsure.
The interview wasn’t only in the newspaper…it was on television too: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=612
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
There is just no way to prove what happened to Carol happened the same night/weekend as Kathleen Johns. Even Carol was unsure.
The interview wasn’t only in the newspaper…it was on television too: http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtop … f=30&t=612
Fair point. However, I don’t think the question of when it happened is all that significant. What is significant, to me anyway, is the fact that a man tried to coerce Carol into pulling her vehicle over using the exact same tactics that Kathy Johns claimed her abductor used. Plus, both reported their incidents happened on Highway 132.
Now I know some will argue that this could have been two independent incidents with two different men, and they would be correct as far as evidence goes. There is no way of proving that the man who accosted Kathy, was the same man who tried to get Carol to stop. But, in my opinion, with both incidents occurring on the same stretch of highway and the MO of the male driver being identical in both cases, i’d be highly surprised if the two incidents were not related.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
There is just no way to prove what happened to Carol happened the same night/weekend as Kathleen Johns. Even Carol was unsure.
The interview wasn’t only in the newspaper…it was on television too: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=612
Fair point. However, I don’t think the question of when it happened is all that significant. What is significant, to me anyway, is the fact that a man tried to coerce Carol into pulling her vehicle over using the exact same tactics that Kathy Johns claimed her abductor used. Plus, both reported their incidents happened on Highway 132.
Now I know some will argue that this could have been two independent incidents with two different men, and they would be correct as far as evidence goes. There is no way of proving that the man who accosted Kathy, was the same man who tried to get Carol to stop. But, in my opinion, with both incidents occurring on the same stretch of highway and the MO of the male driver being identical in both cases, i’d be highly surprised if the two incidents were not related.
For those who believe that, one might take into consideration the man lived in the proximity. Two different cars.
I think the attack on that girl by that Singleton creep happened on the same stretch of hwy and that is why he came up too. A long, lonely road…
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
