Many of us, myself included, have discussed the ‘final destination’ if you will of Paul Stine’s cab and asked the usual questions of why Washington & Maple/Cherry, why in such a public area, how did he escape – on foot or by vehicle? And that’s only a couple of questions, there are many more. But, I think there’s been much attention paid to the taxi’s destination that the pick up point/area has been rather overlooked.
Lets forget about that location for a moment, we know that there were several witnesses in and around Cherry/Jackson St, so what about witnesses at the pick up location? We know that the pick up area was in the heart of the theatre district in the area of Geary & Mason Streets. Considering this area was and is very popular with the public, and the time of evening Zodiac would have hailed Stine (Approx. 9:45pm), it’s risky for Zodiac to hail Stine in this area because any number of theatre goers could have witnessed him doing so. If he were a regular attendee of the theatre and his face was known to other theatre goers, this again would be quite risky. In Presidio Heights we know Zodiac exited the cab, wiped down his side of the cab’s exterior before walking around to Paul’s driver side door to wipe the exterior of that down also. This must mean that Zodiac, at some point, knows he touched the outside of Paul’s cab door. I have theorised on other threads that when Zodia hailed Paul, he pulled over and Zodiac & Paul had the initial discussion through Paul’s driver side window (For example, Paul: ‘how far are you going, as I have another fare.’ Zodiac: ‘Presidio district, W&M Streets.’ Paul: ‘Ok, I can do that, get in’) ad that Zodiac had walked up to the cab, leaned or knelt down to speak to Paul, and placed his hands on the area where the window was would fully down. If Zodiac did speak to Paul though his window when he first pulled over (I can’t think of any other reason why Z would wipe down Paul’s door) then that would suggest that Zodiac was on the left side of the street as Paul drove up it, and that Zodiac probably crossed the street to speak to Paul through his drivers window. Do we know if theatre goers and general public were ever questioned or any appeal for witnesses made?

Missed this post from WC but I think it’s a valid question. Why the heck would Z choose this location on a busy Saturday night in one of the busiest locations in downtown SF?

@37.7870486,-122.4100483,18.8z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x8085808eff67c139:0x34943a087096a468″> https://www.google.com/maps/place/Geary … 087096a468

Geary St. is one way so I think it’s a reasonable assumption that Stine was traveling west on Geary St. when Z hailed his cab and he continued west on Geary St. toward Z’s destination. Anything interesting nearby on that map? As WC mentions, Mason & Geary is in the heart of the SF theater district. Considering Z’s affinity for plays (the Mikado) and films, I honestly think the most likely scenario is that Z was attending the broadway production of HAIR at the Geary Theater (now the American Conservatory Theater) at 415 Geary St. less than 1/2 block away. The play (according to Graysmith) let out at 9:30 p.m., 15 minutes before Z hailed Stine’s cab only a couple hundred feet away. Seagull also discovered that a show called The Grand Kabuki was playing at Curran Theatre next door, which could also be an attraction for Z considering his interest in the Mikado.

Check out the Street View on the google map to get a sense of the close proximity to the Geary and Curran theaters. It would also explain the possible need to wipe down Stine’s driver side door if Zodiac spoke to him on the the southwest corner of Mason & Geary near the theater and perhaps leaned against the door or door handle there.

Just my opinion but it’s an image that kept running through my mind constantly when I stayed in a hotel a few blocks away and walked by that corner every day.

Missed this post from WC but I think it’s a valid question. Why the heck would Z choose this location on a busy Saturday night in one of the busiest locations in downtown SF?

@37.7870486,-122.4100483,18.8z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x8085808eff67c139:0x34943a087096a468″> https://www.google.com/maps/place/Geary … 087096a468

Geary St. is one way so I think it’s a reasonable assumption that Stine was traveling west on Geary St. when Z hailed his cab and he continued west on Geary St. toward Z’s destination. Anything interesting nearby on that map? As WC mentions, Mason & Geary is in the heart of the SF theater district. Considering Z’s affinity for plays (the Mikado) and films, I honestly think the most likely scenario is that Z was attending the broadway production of HAIR at the Geary Theater (now the American Conservatory Theater) at 415 Geary St. less than 1/2 block away. The play (according to Graysmith) let out at 9:30 p.m., 15 minutes before Z hailed Stine’s cab only a couple hundred feet away. Seagull also discovered that a show called The Grand Kabuki was playing at Curran Theatre next door, which could also be an attraction for Z considering his interest in the Mikado.

Check out the Street View on the google map to get a sense of the close proximity to the Geary and Curran theaters. It would also explain the possible need to wipe down Stine’s driver side door if Zodiac spoke to him on the the southwest corner of Mason & Geary near the theater and perhaps leaned against the door or door handle there.

Just my opinion but it’s an image that kept running through my mind constantly when I stayed in a hotel a few blocks away and walked by that corner every day.

I was gathering up all the necessary items I needed to make a post on Cheri Jo Bates when I came across something that reminded me of Paul Stine. The item I was looking at provided an address and, while I knew Paul Stine’s fare was in the vicinity of Mason and Geary, I do not recall ever seeing an actual address. This was the reason why I made the post above.

I did make an attempt to go over old posts both before and after I made my post above but finally just gave up. Instead, I went to Google maps and entered the address I came across. The address, 415 Geary, put me right at the corner of Mason and Geary. So, yes, I agree that 415 Geary was more than likely the location of pick up.

However, while it may be possible that the Zodiac took in a movie (certainly don’t dispute that), would seeing a movie be more important or perhaps equally important to the simple act of being at a location that played a part in his fantasy?

You mention that Geary Theater was later renamed American Conservatory Theater. The name, Geary Theater, was not the first name this theater had. It was originally named "Columbia Theater" when it was built in 1909. The reason why the theater was named Columbia Theater was because, the original "Columbia Theater" on Powell, was destroyed in the 1906 San Francisco earthquake and fire that followed.

I am thinking that the original Columbia Theater on Powell was what was important to the Zodiac and, the Geary Theater, was just the next best thing. The Geary Theater was the only thing available for him to live out his fantasy.

So, what was so important about Columbia Theater on Powell?

Certainly something I would like to know.

Soze

Interesting history, Soze, but I guess I don’t understand what the significance of Mason & Geary or the Columbia Theater would have in some sort of preplanned fantasy scenario. I’ve questioned before whether the Stine murder wasn’t actually impulsive rather than pre-planned because of the seemingly bizarre itinerary of Z driving to the area near Washington & Cherry, taking some form of public transportation to Mason & Geary and then hailing a cab to return to his original location before walking at least several blocks back to his vehicle. It was awkward, unnecessarily complicated, invited eyewitnesses to get a good look at him at two different locations and very nearly resulted in his capture. Was it really necessary for him to hail a cab at Mason & Geary on a busy Saturday night or did he merely have other business (or entertainment) to attend to there? Rhetorical question, of course…

Here are a few old pics from Zkiller.com showing the proximity of 415 Geary (the Geary Theater) to the corner of Mason & Geary.

Edited to add:

Ran across this interesting post by Fools Gold on Mike B.’s ZKFacts site that pretty much echoes my previous post in picture form and shows the obvious fingerprints on the driver’s side passenger door of Stine’s cab. It also raises the question of Z’s seemingly bizarre itinerary:

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/forum/ … f=21&t=362

After I made my latest post, I went digging further into "Columbia Theater" and a really funny thing came to light. Funny for me that is. You see, just recently I made a post regarding why the Zodiac chose Washington & Maple as an initial stop and referred back to it in his letter dated October 13, 1969.

The reason: The Russell-Haas house.

http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1110&start=30

In researching Leon B Russell and Madeleine Haas, I came across this website:

http://www.sfheritage.org/haas-lilienthal-house/

Towards the bottom of this page they discuss the architect for the Haas-Lillienthal House as being one Peter R Schmidt. Peter Schmidt was also the architect for the Stockwells Theater on Powell, later named, the Columbia Theater. What’s funny for me is, I have known about Russell and Haas for years. I have had a copy of the Haas – Lilienthal article for as long. So its pretty darn funny that I have had this for so long and just now making the connection between the two. Don’t understand how I missed it.

Anyway, its simply a connection. The area where Zodiac was picked up and, the location of his initial stop, have something in common. Perhaps this, commonality, was a reason for the change in attack site. Maybe the Zodiac thought leaving the crime scene at its original destination was just too much information. I really think this to be the case.

While i did not make the connection between the two until last night, there are quite a few little things like the above, that give an air to a "preplanned fantasy scenario". Enough to know that "Columbia Theater on Powell" would be something to consider and, as it turns out, it was.

Oh, and thanks for presenting the post by Fools Gold. I thoroughly enjoyed it and am surprised that I don’t see any of their posts here. It was very good.

Soze

Soze, interesting stuff. Z asked Stine to go to Wash & Maple, we know from the logbook. Then, for some unknown reason, he makes him go to Wash & Cherry. Later, when he refers to the attack in his letter, he again mentions Wash & Maple, NOT Cherry. He def wanted to call attention to that spot.

By the way, not sure if I missed it, but what was the thing you found leading to Mason & Geary, while researching Bates?

I wonder if Z saw a movie that night that inspired him to commit a murder. If he was in the front seat of the cab, is it possible that there was someone in the backseat? An accomplice.

I wonder if Z saw a movie that night that inspired him to commit a murder. If he was in the front seat of the cab, is it possible that there was someone in the backseat? An accomplice.

Anything is possible, I guess. I once thought about the possibility of there being more than one passenger in that cab: Stine did drop someone off at Maple/Wash. Then he proceeded, perhaps at gunpoint, to Cherry/Wash. But which scenario would make such a chain of events plausible – well, I’ve no idea. It was just a random thought at the time.

Anyway, the witnesses across the street would seemingly rule out a second passenger in the cab at the crime scene – so if anyone did ride along, he or she would have been dropped off at some point before they reached Cherry/Wash. And if that is indeed the case, what location more likely than Maple/Wash., the logged destination of the ride.

Those new (or new to me) articles Seagull posted last spring mention something confusing. According to Keith Power’s article of 17 Oct, Stine’s waybill indicated he picked up his last fare at Mason and Geary and the stated destination was Washington and Maple. That would explain Zodiac’s wrong address in his letter. But an article by Jim Wood several days later states that SFPD thought he picked up his last fare on Mason in front of the Fairmount Hotel four blocks north of Geary and that SFPD detectives were practically swarming that area. The bulletin with the sketch mentions Washington and Laurel, but not Washington and Maple.

What the heck? Didn’t SFPD have access to Stine’s waybill? How else did Power get his information about it? Or was Jim Wood just a terrible reporter?

Has anyone seen photos of the waybill? There are lots of photos of the shirt, the shirt pieces, the gloves, the street guide, poor Paul himself, but I’ve never seen a photo of the waybill. Has anyone else?

I’ve seen several pictures of his fare book – but none of the actual page where it says "Wash. and Maple". There is no doubt the cops had access to it, though – it was on the floor of the cab, "next to a pool of blood" as it says in one of the reports (if memory serves).

Norse:

If you’ve seen photos of the waybill and reports that describe it, that puts you ahead of Tom Voigt and Mike Rodelli and everybody else. There are crime scene photos of Stine’s STREET GUIDE lying in the gutter next to the cab, but that’s not the waybill or whatever you call it that he would have turned into the cab company with the money he collected.

But my question was, if Keith Power saw it, or was told about it by someone in SFPD, then why were SFPD swarming over Nob Hill? And why does their bulletin say Washington and Laurel instead of Washington and Maple?

Norse:

If you’ve seen photos of the waybill and reports that describe it, that puts you ahead of Tom Voigt and Mike Rodelli and everybody else. There are crime scene photos of Stine’s STREET GUIDE lying in the gutter next to the cab, but that’s not the waybill or whatever you call it that he would have turned into the cab company with the money he collected.

But my question was, if Keith Power saw it, or was told about it by someone in SFPD, then why were SFPD swarming over Nob Hill? And why does their bulletin say Washington and Laurel instead of Washington and Maple?

Ah, sorry – I’ve seen it described as his "fare book", but you’re right: the picture(s) I have in mind appears to be of his street guide.

I’ve always taken it as gospel that Stine was headed to Maple/Wash. and that the cops knew this for sure because they retrieved his fare book or waybill or whatever you want to call it – his log, in short, where the destination (Wash./Cherry) was recorded.

Norse:

Maybe Keith Power was right, but what confuses me is, according to Wood, SFPD didn’t know anything about Mason and Geary, even several days later.

Another weird thing is, Graysmith never mentioned Power or his verification of Zodiac’s letter in "Zodiac." Did Power just make it up? Why? Just to make Zodiac more believable? Why would he do that? Or did he somehow get the waybill before police did?

What I have gone by, when it comes to this, is that SFPD had Stine’s log – his "trip sheet" (yet another term for the same thing) – which stated clearly that he was going to Maple/Wash. The latter was an added fare he took on – clearly someone who hailed him – while en route to a specified address (can’t remember which, but this is well known – as per the records of the cab company) to pick up someone who had called (per telephone) for a cab.

So, Z hailed him, asked whether Stine could take him to Wash./Maple, Stine said alright (this being more or less on his way to wherever he was going to pick up the client who had called for a cab), Stine made a note of this fare (on his trip sheet) and then drove on – and we all know what happened next.

This is what happened as far as I know. Exactly where he picked up Z – and whether the precise location would be recorded on his trip sheet (or elsewhere) – I do not know.

Norse (and everyone else:)

What I can’t understand is, if SFPD knew what was in Stine’s waybill, then why were they looking all over Nob Hill? Jim Wood’s article doesn’t say that one detective or source told him they were. The article says every available man was scouring Nob Hill looking for potential witnesses.

Either Power made the whole thing up, which doesn’t make Zodiac look any more reliable, or he personally picked up the waybill. But even if he did, why didn’t he turn it over to SFPD after he got his "scoop?" There don’t seem to be any more Zodiac articles by Power after the brief one about the Zodiac conference. Did police come to a conclusion at that conference that got Power into hot water? He wasn’t fired. Just taken off the Zodiac story. If he got into trouble, it didn’t involve handing over the waybill. Not according to Jim Wood’s article.

Weird.