Hi-

Well, my opinion is that if you see the same guy driving around and around the neighborhood in a place where his car might stick out like a sore thumb because not many cars apparently drive around there at night you may just light him up and see what he is up to. If I had gotten away scot-free from the Stine scene and had incriminating evidence in my car, I don’t think I wold have risked ruining a good night by making myself conspicuous.

Just IMHO.

Zodiac said that motorcycles went by his location traveling "about 150 feet away" going from "south to northwest." At the end of Maple and Cherry there is no way for a car or motorcycle to enter the park. There is an entrance at the end of Spruce in the neighborhood (aside from the Arguello entrance, etc.). There is a certain property on the north side of Jackson west of Spruce Street that contains a point exactly 150 feet from the NW corner of Jackson and Spruce. So Z’s statement could be the equivalent of saying that he was standing in his front yard (which he may have been in ONE version of Pelissetti’s narrative) and saw/heard motorcycles going up Spruce Street (which, like all the streets in PH, runs slightly from south to northwest) and into the park. A possible clew?

Mike

Well the ‘Zodiac had a vehicle parked close by’ theory has long been one that many support. There is no way to know for sure but for me the idea has too many flaws. I don’t know the SFPD procedure for responding to homicide back then but I would imagine that one of the first things they would have done is set up a perimeter around the area as they did with Julius Kahn and the Presidio. I would imagine that they had roadblocks stopping anyone leaving the area without checking their identities as that is, as far as I know, standard procedure.
If you are in a vehicle, essentially a small metallic box with beaming lights fixed onto the front that are begging you to be noticed, then your a sitting duck if you drive straight into a police road block. Whereas to spot police road block while on foot, you can simply turn off the street and into a front yard for example, as a White Male appeared to do when he saw Officers Don Fouke & Eric Zelms approaching in their ‘Prowl Car’.

The Son of Sam, David Berkowitz, was undone because he had done exactly what many think Zodiac did, he had parked his car in the locality of where he would shoot his final victims. Upon returning to his vehicle, he discovered on the windshield a ticket placed their by police. When the Son of Sam struck in that neighbourhood a witness came forward to say that shortly after the time the shootings occurred, she had seen a man rushing to his vehicle who took a ticket off the windshield, got into the car and sped away. A quick search of the database for tickets given on that street for that particular night told police that only one car had received a ticket on that street on the relevant night, and the vehicle ticketed was registered to David Berkowitz.

As we have discussed many, many times, Fouke back in 1969 stated the man he saw walked into the park: "north on Maple into the Presido"

More for us to pick and choose what we want to believe. Fouke wrote this and later we hear Fouke’s account. Who is the one offering two different stories?

No doubt Zodiac threw out truths and lies, but it sure seems like disappearing into the park would be the smart thing to do, especially if cops just saw him walking down the street.

As we have discussed many, many times, Fouke back in 1969 stated the man he saw walked into the park: "north on Maple into the Presido"

More for us to pick and choose what we want to believe. Fouke wrote this and later we hear Fouke’s account. Who is the one offering two different stories?

No doubt Zodiac threw out truths and lies, but it sure seems like disappearing into the park would be the smart thing to do, especially if cops just saw him walking down the street.

Yes that’s fair enough to assume Tahoe, but as I have also said many, many times, I totally agree with what Chief Martin Lee stated in reply to Zodiac’s boast "The SFPD could have caught me last night if they had searched the park properly" when Lee states "He (Zodiac) is a liar. He was not in the park, we had seven police dogs, fire trucks with search lights that lit up the whole area, and police officers searching tree by tree and bush by bush." He finishes by stating "A mouse couldn’t have escaped our attention."

That is something I fully agree with him about. And because we know Zodiac was still close enough to either see, or at the very least hear, the search effort to the point where he could accurately describe the police bikes and police car parking arrangement, he has to have been somewhere else close by. Either that or he has a friend/accomplice in that area, or he has access to police reports of the incident and search.

SFPD believe Zodiac will return to the scene one day and try and pull another cab driver homicide. This is why thay have placed their covertly parked undercover van, sporting it’s one way tinted windows that conceal a 7 man S.W.A.T Team sitting inside/ They have been waiting there now for the past 44 years.

SFPD believe Zodiac will return to the scene one day and try and pull another cab driver homicide. This is why thay have placed their covertly parked undercover van, sporting it’s one way tinted windows that conceal a 7 man S.W.A.T Team sitting inside/ They have been waiting there now for the past 44 years.

Haha..haven’t had such a good laugh for a while..

With Z living in the small black car behind them..since 44 years..waiting for them to leave

(Sorry, no picture of Zodiac available due to obvious reasons..but you clearly can see his pink blouse behind the seat belt..)

Lol….Literally. That reply also made me laugh out lout

But that vehicle you have submitted a photograph of may only be a lookalike based on an eye witness description. This vehicle below was what he actually parked behind them in.

This is actually how he eluded capture on the night of Oct 11 in the park area. He said he was in the park, but this was obviously a play on words because he actually meant he was in park, as in, he turned the engine off, and placed the vehicle ‘in park’. This is where Zodiac was hiding on the grounds of The Presidio park. Police failed to find the huge multi-coloured van as suspicious as they say they were given information from despatch to BOTL for a White Male, not multi-coloured flower power van.

I believe he drove out from under cover to then make his way around to Washington & Cherry where he parked behind the team of Officers searching for him and where he has remained for the past 44 years.

But back to seriousness and the topic. Another possible clue that Zodiac does know that area well and was possibly in a house is the fact he tries to give the impression that he does not know the name of the street he actually ended up at in the cab. Zodiac writes "I am the murderer of the cab driver over by Washington street and Maple street last night." Either he doesn’t know the area as his letter suggests in order to name the actual location as Washington & Cherry, or he does know the name of it but just wants to give the impression that he doesn’t and is unfamiliar with that area because actually, he is local to the area and wants to distance himself from it. One thing the FBI behavioural Unit will tell you about Serial Killers is that they will always stay within their comfort zone when they kill and will feel comfortable in the area they strike. They will almost never venture into an area they are not familiar with to kill. So the odds are Zodiac struck in Presidio Heights because he knew the area well enough to be comfortable to kill and escape there. By saying "Over by Washington and Maple streets" it gives the reader the impression that he doesn’t know the actual street name of Cherry, and therefor he cannot know the area well but that goes against what we know serial killers do and always strike where they are familiar with their environment.

It’s long been a point of discussion as to why Zodiac asked to go to Washington & Maple and yet Stine’s cab was found one block further at Washington & Cherry. Maybe it’s as simple as ‘he did it deliberately so he could write that the incident happened ‘over by Washington Street’s and Maple Street’s’ to give the appearance he didn’t have a clue where he was and was unfamiliar with the area.’ Serial Killers never venture out of their comfort Zone to kill, and Zodiac certainly knew the area well enough to avoid a posse of responding units and a search effort that, as Chief Lee puts it "Even a mouse couldn’t have escaped."

Very good possibility Chappie.

I just always assumed he wrote that as another way to "prove" that he did the crime. The public only knew Washington and Cherry, but he made sure they knew the "real details" if you know what I mean.

He wanted them to know that even though the murder took place on Washington and Cherry, only HE and police knew that his ride was supposed to end on Maple. He loved showing off the "real details." Just like most thought the murder of Darlene Ferrin was on July 5th…he made sure people knew it was actually on July 4th.

Very good possibility Chappie.

I just always assumed he wrote that as another way to "prove" that he did the crime. The public only knew Washington and Cherry, but he made sure they knew the "real details" if you know what I mean.

He wanted them to know that even though the murder took place on Washington and Cherry, only HE and police knew that his ride was supposed to end on Maple. He loved showing off the "real details." Just like most thought the murder of Darlene Ferrin was on July 5th…he made sure people knew it was actually on July 4th.

Yes that’s a good point also. I went to the FBI website today and specifically their ‘Serial Murder’ page. Here’s just two paragraphs….

"For years, law enforcement investigators, academics, mental health experts, and the media have studied serial murder, from Jack the Ripper in the late 1800s to the sniper killings in 2002, and from the “Zodiac Killer” in California to the “BTK Killer” in Kansas. These diverse groups have long attempted to understand the complex issues related to serial murder investigations. Until the Serial Murder Symposium, however, there had been few attempts to reach a consensus on some of these issues.

• Itinerant individuals who move from place to place.
• Homeless individuals who are transients.
• Individuals whose employment lends itself to interstate or transnational travel, such as truck drivers or those in military service."

That’s why I say that the odds are Zodiac knew that area well, or knew someone who lived there. If Zodiac’s intent was always to ‘dash into the presidio’ then why didn’t he use the entrance at the top of Cherry Street? Why walk down Jackson Street, under street lights and in full view of any passing motorist or pedestrian, to get to Maple Street to enter the Presidio when he could have got onto West Pacific Avenue and the Presidio at Cherry Street? I think he stayed on the street because he was heading for somewhere specific and it wasn’t The Presidio and Julius Kahn.

There really isnt much discussion about the Arguello gate to Presidio Golf Course..not a bad place to hide an still(sorta) see an hear(definitely) the action IMO..

Myth: All serial murderers travel and operate interstate.

Most serial killers have very defined geographic areas of operation. They conduct their killings within comfort zones that are often defined by an anchor point (e.g. place of residence, employment, or residence of a relative). Serial murderers will, at times, spiral their activities outside of their comfort zone, when their confidence has grown through experience or to avoid detection. Very few serial murderers travel interstate to kill.

Of note, one of the very interesting things about BTK is that his activities actually spiraled INTO his "comfort zone" i.e. he began choosing victims closer to home in Park City, KS. Even his communications in 2004 seemed (in retrospect) to be moving closer to his home. Unfortunately, the victims weren’t recognized so the geographical locations were never factored in. An unconscious desire to be caught and receive his due recognition, perhaps?

Here is my theory on it and don’t think Zodiac lived near LHR , BRS or LB but think he was familiar with the areas in the past. I think they all was distractions to throw LE off while getting the attention he so wanted while living in San Fransisco.The final killing would actually be near where he lives to terrorize the big city he so wanted to do so and his main agenda. Why he changed his MO and no longer targeting couples and wanted a easy kill and what better way to do so by hailing a cab. I think he pick a wealthy section of SF as well so no one felt safe in the city period. To terrorize the city of San Fransisco was his goal to begin with and why we didn’t hear any more proven killings from him since. He finally got the attention he wanted and achieved his main goal.

I also think Zodiac possibly wanted to watch the police response this time. If he did live close, or had a friend or relative who did, he probably wagered that the police would assume that the offender, later discovered to be ‘Zodiac’, wouldn’t reside in such an affluent area of the City, and that’s exactly what the responding Don Fouke did. When Fouke was asked why he did not report seeing a white male turn onto a driveway on Jackson Street that night Fouke replied: "I didn’t think about it in the report because I assumed that he (Offender) didn’t live in the neighbourhood, A upper-middle class neighbourhood."

The FBI behavioural unit also state:

"Myth: Serial killers are all dysfunctional loners.

• Robert Yates killed seventeen prostitutes in the Spokane, Washington area, during the 1990s. He was married with five children, lived in a middle class neighbourhood, and was a decorated U.S. Army National Guard helicopter pilot. During the time period of the murders, Yates routinely patronized prostitutes, and several of his victims knew each other. Yates buried one of his victims in his yard, beneath his bedroom window. Yates was eventually arrested and pled guilty to thirteen of the murders."