Great thread…..all of the Paul Stine scenarios are very interesting…..I have been reading about the murder for years, walked the area a couple of times and still can’t come up with a timeline scenario that I’m convinced of…..one thing I’m fairly certain of is that Zodiac was covered in blood…I just can’t see Fouke or Zelms not noticing this…I’m going to throw this out…..Z fled north possibly crossing to the west side of Cherry and had his car parked west on Jackson….he saw the encounter with the pedestrian to his right jumped in his car and got the hell out of dodge….turned south on Arguello, then west on Lake or California to HW 1……what if Z didn’t have a conversation with Fouke?…..after what he saw, he could have easily made up the encounter, trying to embarrass the police…actually, by then, he could have been miles away and not even heard the motorcycles or sirens….

I really wonder why this is even a question. The Robbins kids who were watching Z wipe down the cab, rearrange Paul’s body, and then walk away must have been able to give a good description of his clothes. Foulke, likewise, got a good look at Z. So, don’t their descriptions match up? There was obviously no time for the guy Lindsey Robbins was watching to change his clothes, with Lindsey watching him walk all the way down Cherry to Jackson.

Something else I wonder about. Did Lindsey ever describe how Z walked? If Lindsey saw him walk with some sort of shuffling lope, or limp, or some other oddity, then clearly it was the same guy Foulke saw. My guess is, Z walked "normally" up Cherry street, then broke into a semi-run when he turned on Jackson. But description of his clothing, plus the timing and location, have to make it a virtual certainty it was the same guy, especially since it was the only person Foulke and Zelms reported seeing on Jackson at that time.

Totally agree with everything written here good post Marshall

^^^This. I agree so strongly. Surely the investigators would have established to their own satisfaction if Foukes had seen the same individual as the Robbins kid. Is it maybe because Foulkes and Zelms didn’t come forward right away? Or am I thinking of the Fincher film?

So….if we think that it really was Z that talked to Fouke, then Fouke really bit hard on “he went that away” on Z describing a man waving a gun……looks even worse since he was only 3 minutes away from a murder scene regardless of the APB for a BM……

Still pondering the possibility that it wasn’t Z that Foukes talked to….at the first two Murder scenes, we know that Z left the scene quickly……Lake Berryessa….probably, although he took time to write the message on the car door….at the Presidio murder, he took time to wipe down door handles and rip off a piece of Stine’s shirt…..in all, he left the murder scenes fairly quickly….why would he not have his escape vehicle very close to the cab?…to me, I don’t see Z changing up his escapes to hide in a garden, walk to work at a hospital, walk to his barricks, take a bus, hide in an apartment, or live right by the scene of the murder….given the crime scene, I don’t see how he he was not covered in blood and would use the shadows as cover to get to his car quickly and escape….therefore, I don’t think he would have walked east unless he had to because that’s where his car was parked….if so, the question now is why didn’t he shoot Stine at Maple?

The man that Donald Fouke saw had to be Zodiac. The person who wrote the November 9th 1969 letter described "2 cops pulled a goof". This encounter was never reported in the newspapers, therefore the letter writer knew exactly what was described in Donald Fouke’s upcoming memorandum on November 12th 1969. Zodiac left the taxicab at 9:56 pm, for a 3 minute walk to near Jackson & Maple (9:59 pm). Donald Fouke got the APB at 9:58 pm approx from the intersection of Presidio Ave & Washington, for the 1 minute journey to Jackson & Maple. They were on a perfect collision course to meet at this intersection. The descriptions of the 3 teenagers, Donald Fouke and the eyewitnesses at Julius Khan playground are effectively identifying the same man. That is three virtually identical descriptions in a 5 minute window. The witnesses described a man running into the park and Zodiac agreed he was in the park. Finally, why did Donald Fouke head away from a crime scene he was supposed to be responding to. He didn’t initially turn south into Cherry, he headed away towards Arguello Boulevard. He admitted this in 1989.

He stated "We proceeded on Jackson Street towards Arguello continuing our search. As we arrived at Arguello Street the description of the suspect was changed to a white male adult, (and) believing this suspect was possibly the one involved in the shooting, we entered the Presidio of San Francisco and conducted a search on West Pacific Avenue, the opposite side of the wall and the last direction we observed the suspect going. We did not find the suspect".

All you have to do is ask yourself one question: Why does Donald Fouke head away from Washington & Cherry when he is supposedly responding to an assault and robbery, if not for the fact he was directed there by Zodiac claiming a "man who was runnig by waveing a gun". In theory, what Donald Fouke stated in 1989 should be more likely the truth than his multiple contradictory statements in 2007.

Thank you Richard!…..as usual, you helped me to understand the flow of events….so, of course, that leads to more questions from me!…..so Zodiac told Fouke that the man waving the gun was running west, away from the direction that Z was heading?….he then went into Kahn park….I wonder why?….he must have had some sort of escape route planned out….maybe he was trapped in a very convenient place for him and waited until everything died down….stayed in his car?….we will probably never know, but it would seem that Z not being found or detected, was a miracle……I am still confused as to why trained police officers didn’t get out of the vehicle and have a talk with Z, being it was within minutes of a murder and he (Z) was the only person in sight….as I stated earlier, Fouke must have bit really hard on the “he went that away” scenario instead of questioning Z further….

Yes, Zodiac likely directed Fouke in the opposite direction to his travel, up to Arguello. He obviously doesn’t want to direct him to the murder site. Donald Fouke (if he was under the impression he was looking for a NMA) probably realized that the WMA he had just passed could be the perpetrator of the crime once he got the updated description.

According to Donald Fouke he got the update to a white male approaching Arguello and in his words conducted a search on West Pacific Avenue (Julius Khan). The time period for Donald Fouke to leave Jackson & Maple, head to Arguello and turn east towards and arrive at Julius Khan playground, would match the walking time of Zodiac from Jackson & Maple to Spruce St (JKP). The sirens/and/or flashing lights of the patrol car may have caused the residents in Spruce overlooking Julius Khan to open their curtains. Once the patrol car finds nothing and heads back, Zodiac makes his move into the park. But now the residents are probably still looking out their windows and notice Zodiac running into the park. Where he went after this – take your pick – but logically he should head east or back to West Pacific Avenue to a waiting vehicle.

The officers likely didn’t get out their vehicle to question Zodiac because (according to them) they weren’t looking for a white man. In theory, if Donald Fouke was looking for a black suspect he would have said to Zodiac "have you seen a black man in the area". The Zodiac (knowing he was the killer) probably couldn’t believe it was his lucky day and capitalized by inventing a fictitious man waving a gun.

Cool…thanks again Richard….I think Z got out of the area a quickly as humanly possible….that prompted my initial brainstorming how Z could he have left the crime scene as quickly as possible……my questions in this thread in no way was being critical of anyone’s opinion or sage knowledge of the Z case….I just want to thoroughly understand and feed off of the knowledge on this board….

These are of course only my take on the events, others may have differing opinions Quicksilver.

The offender carefully orchestrated this entire crime from the where to the when to the how. His escape must have also been carefully considered by him. This offender operated from his personal vehicle at the other known crime scenes. Always before he had committed his crimes and then returned to his vehicle to flee. "Cruising" in his vehicle for victims seems to have been his MO, and he stated such.

That being the case, the strongest likelihood is that the offender did have his vehicle planted near his intended crime scene. Recall that the offender’s stated destination in the cabbie’s log was a block to the East at Washington & Maple, but the cab with both and the crime scene ended up farther down the road at Washington & Cherry. Ergo the offender’s vehicle must not have been far from the stated destination of Washington & Maple, where he intended his crime scene to stay. From his vehicle he would have been aware of the police activity as he drove away, over the SF Gate.