sure wouldn’t have needed a car to kill Stine or CJB.
could have been riding a motorcycle at Lake Berryessa.
could have borrowed a car or even stolen one for the
other two. and, that’s not to say he didn’t have his
own car parked at a friend’s house. these are possible
ways it could have gone down?

He had a car and was not in an institution when CJB was killed. He was at the library quite frequently. Might not have needed a car for Stine, although one would think the scent dogs would’ve picked up on him if he was on foot for any distance (with Stine’s blood on his clothes, and the piece of bloody shirt he was carrying.) Also, if out for a weekend pass, unless the hospital was nearby, he would’ve had to have some sort of transportation from there to PH and back.

Motorcycle at LB is possible but I doubt it, since he had all that gear: bib, hood, gun, knife, rope (going there, that is.) A cycle with a fairly large storage compartment maybe. But whether motorcycle or car, it’s really the same question. He’d need a drivers license, have the vehicle license current, etc.

Wouldn’t it be incredibly risky to steal a car, and then drive around in it, stalking and killing victims? If we’re talking about a guy who’s insane, it’s certainly possible. But he also seemed to be a planner, and having police looking for the car he’s driving, even before he’s actually committed a Z crime, wouldn’t be very intelligent.

What I’m wondering is, was Tim in Canada at this time, or could that be where Ross could’ve acquired wheels? If so – further speculation – it could be that Tim started noticing a correlation between Z crimes and Ross borrowing a car.

sure wouldn’t have needed a car to kill Stine or CJB.
could have been riding a motorcycle at Lake Berryessa.
could have borrowed a car or even stolen one for the
other two. and, that’s not to say he didn’t have his
own car parked at a friend’s house. these are possible
ways it could have gone down?

He had a car and was not in an institution when CJB was killed. He was at the library quite frequently. Might not have needed a car for Stine, although one would think the scent dogs would’ve picked up on him if he was on foot for any distance (with Stine’s blood on his clothes, and the piece of bloody shirt he was carrying.) Also, if out for a weekend pass, unless the hospital was nearby, he would’ve had to have some sort of transportation from there to PH and back.

Motorcycle at LB is possible but I doubt it, since he had all that gear: bib, hood, gun, knife, rope (going there, that is.) A cycle with a fairly large storage compartment maybe. But whether motorcycle or car, it’s really the same question. He’d need a drivers license, have the vehicle license current, etc.

Wouldn’t it be incredibly risky to steal a car, and then drive around in it, stalking and killing victims? If we’re talking about a guy who’s insane, it’s certainly possible. But he also seemed to be a planner, and having police looking for the car he’s driving, even before he’s actually committed a Z crime, wouldn’t be very intelligent.

What I’m wondering is, was Tim in Canada at this time, or could that be where Ross could’ve acquired wheels? If so – further speculation – it could be that Tim started noticing a correlation between Z crimes and Ross borrowing a car.

Excellent point. Tim and Bonnie divorced in June 1969. Might he have returned by then?

Excellent point. Tim and Bonnie divorced in June 1969. Might he have returned by then?

If Tim went to Canada to avoid the Vietnam draft, would he have been likely to return in 1969-70? Or… did Tim have a place in or near SF that Ross could use while Tim was out of the country? If not a dwelling, maybe a car that was in storage somewhere? Those would be interesting questions for Bonnie, if she was willing to help.

Another thought, again speculating if Ross was Z, institutionalized, and out on passes or escapes for Z attacks… Where did he acquire/stash his guns?

To me, in this scenario, LB is the key, because with the others, Z could drive, kill, return, in a relatively short timeframe. All he’d need would be a vehicle, gun and ammo. But if he was institutionalized at the time of LB (9/27/69) then he would need a place, and time, to sew that costume unnoticed. It could probably be done in a day, but he’d need a place to do it. Since LB is less than 3 months after BRS and just two weeks before PH, I think Ross would look a lot better for being Z if he was out of the hospital between late September and October 12, 1969.

Marshall wrote:
Motorcycle at LB is possible but I doubt it, since he had all that gear: bib, hood, gun, knife, rope (going there, that is.) A cycle with a fairly large storage compartment maybe. But whether motorcycle or car, it’s really the same question. He’d need a drivers license, have the vehicle license current, etc.

this cat doesn’t obey laws, man. all kinds of folks driving around
without a license. he sure could have been one of them.
motorcycles sometimes have saddlebags. think about this…
car or motorcycle, all the stuff you mentioned, bib, hood, etc,
he would have had to carry quite a distance down the hill from
his vehicle to behind the tree that was close to Bryan and Cecelia.
when she first saw him, he didn’t have his little outfit on. i wonder
how he got it all down there?

Marshall wrote:
Motorcycle at LB is possible but I doubt it, since he had all that gear: bib, hood, gun, knife, rope (going there, that is.) A cycle with a fairly large storage compartment maybe. But whether motorcycle or car, it’s really the same question. He’d need a drivers license, have the vehicle license current, etc.

this cat doesn’t obey laws, man. all kinds of folks driving around
without a license. he sure could have been one of them.
motorcycles sometimes have saddlebags. think about this…
car or motorcycle, all the stuff you mentioned, bib, hood, etc,
he would have had to carry quite a distance down the hill from
his vehicle to behind the tree that was close to Bryan and Cecelia.
when she first saw him, he didn’t have his little outfit on. i wonder
how he got it all down there?

You’re missing my point. Where would he have gotten a motorcycle, if out on a weekend pass from a mental hospital?

And I’m not talking about a drivers license – I’m talking about a vehicle license. The kind of thing a cop can easily check for on your license plate, and pull you over if your plate is expired.

good question, you borrow it or you already own it. and, risky as it sounds,
murderers do steal cars. he could have also been getting some
spending money from Social Security because of his disease. 200.00 or 300.00
could buy a decent car at that time. that’s what i used to pay.
i sense that you are struggling with the notion he could be mentally ill
and do the things Z did. believe me, it’s possible. it’s called medication.
consider this, he may have felt most sane and functioned at his best during
the murders.

sure wouldn’t have needed a car to kill Stine or CJB.
could have been riding a motorcycle at Lake Berryessa.
could have borrowed a car or even stolen one for the
other two. and, that’s not to say he didn’t have his
own car parked at a friend’s house. these are possible
ways it could have gone down?

You are simply,not correct. Z was not riding a motorcycle at Lake B, whomever Z was, was driving a car. Watch at 1:09:40 into this video,they discuss that issue, and the fact that Zodiac’s car had worn,mismatched tires- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0jnsbZwys

Also, the part about Zodiac’s weight, and cops felt he was in excess of 220 pounds-

The wild speculation needs to be tempered here as far as Ross could have done this or that. Please don’t get away from the case facts,by speculating things like Z may have ridden a motorcycle at Lake Berryessa, when he didn’t.

All in all, the Lake Berryessa attack strengthens the possibility that Ross could be Z. The mismatched,worn tires on Zodiac’s car means we are dealing with a very poor individual.just like Ross. The weight shows Z in excess of 220lbs. just like Ross. The Belly,stomach.and possibility Z was wearing glasses,just like Ross. The later Stine sketch, looks just like Ross. There’s plenty to like about Ross, but please do not make wild speculation that doesn’t match the evidence. Instead, let’s see if we can verify whether or not Ross was in Napa in Sept 1969, or in Vallejo on other Z attack dates

This thread is getting a bit off topic, this is for discussion of people that knew Ross.

and, he could have also been riding in the car you’re talking about
with another person that , so to speak, kept a lookout. and, i agree,
most likely a car was used for the crime. the larger question i was
responding to was possible ways Ross could have got to the crime
scenes and back. your posting of the conversation you had has stirred
up concerns about Ross’ mental condition and his ability to carry out
the Z crimes. i think it’s "speculation" to say because of his mental illness
he couldn’t have carried out the crimes. that’s the real issue here.
and, i’ve made several good points that you have not responded to.
then you respond to this one as "wild speculation. certainly speculation,
but "wild." there was no eyewitness that saw the perp at LB driving
any vehicle. he could have lived close by for that matter and just walked
there. and, i’m well aware of the mismatched tires on the car that had
pulled up by the Karmann Ghia. it’s still speculation that was the killer’s
car. so, we’re back to speculation. not but a few weeks ago, it was
speculation he stayed at the Y or drove a car. it seems pretty likely
those 2 things happened now. one more time, Ross could have owned
a car, he could have borrowed a car, he could have stolen a car or
even walked to some of the crime scenes. and none of that
is "wild speculation."

What is the point in continuing to go around in circles like this? It’d be much better to focus all this energy on getting more testimony from people who may have known Ross or his associates, and digging up more documentation about his whereabouts.

What is the point in continuing to go around in circles like this? It’d be much better to focus all this energy on getting more testimony from people who may have known Ross or his associates, and digging up more documentation about his whereabouts.

Word.

Two days ago this thread had so much promise.

i agree….that’s my point also. i’ve been responding to posts
that speculate Ross couldn’t be Z because of his illness, or
a lack of transportation or proximity to the crimes. to that i say
leave that out for now. let’s put positive energy into this.
i believe it’s likely that Ross was Z. i just hope that something
turns up that proves it. however, let the facts lead us where they will.

What is the point in continuing to go around in circles like this? It’d be much better to focus all this energy on getting more testimony from people who may have known Ross or his associates, and digging up more documentation about his whereabouts.

Word.

Double word…

I am hoping we hear from more people that knew Ross, maybe somebody that worked at the mental hospital even. Co-workers, Friends,anybody. If anybody has ideas of who to reach out to, post em here. In the meantime, I am awaiting responses from the 6 people I wrote to that worked at Terry’s in Vallejo on the off chance Ross was there

One of the posts questioned where Ross could have made his getup. The Agnew Hospital had according to records:
The facility was a small self-contained town, including a multitude of construction trade "shops", a farm which raised pigs and vegetable crops, a steam generating power plant for heating the buildings by steam, and even a fire department.

What is the point in continuing to go around in circles like this? It’d be much better to focus all this energy on getting more testimony from people who may have known Ross or his associates, and digging up more documentation about his whereabouts.

Word.

Double word…

I am hoping we hear from more people that knew Ross, maybe somebody that worked at the mental hospital even. Co-workers, Friends,anybody. If anybody has ideas of who to reach out to, post em here. In the meantime, I am awaiting responses from the 6 people I wrote to that worked at Terry’s in Vallejo on the off chance Ross was there

I mailed out letters to 3 women & 3 men that worked at Terry’s from 69-70, and I have only heard back from one of them, a Lady who did not remember him. She also pointed out to me that there was a Terry’s restaurant & a Terry’s Waffle house, I guess same owner, but 2 distinctly different restaurants. I hope to hear back from a few more

Talked to a Guy that lived at the 512 Address that Ross lived at. This Guy is one of the names we established lived there in the same building late 60’s /early 70’s,I will not share his name.

He relayed the following:

*He said that Ross looked identical to the photos I sent of him(the ones we have from the yearbook that we have)

There’s been speculation whether Ross was part of the counter (hippie) culture during this time. But if Ross, in 1970, looked "identical" to his yearbook photos, that means he still had his crew cut and was clean-shaven.

Jo Ann Bailey said Ross seldom bathed or changed his clothes, so that the odor was so bad they’d have to open windows when he was around. Yet, from the yearbook pics through circa 1970, Ross was apparently keeping his hair short and was shaving regularly.

I have no conclusions, just find it odd that Ross’ grooming habits were virtually non-existent regarding bathing and changing clothes, while he was apparently shaving and getting hair cuts regularly.