also that his fingerprints did not match the fingerprints left behind at the LB attacks.

No, that is not true at all. Stop spreading fake facts about the case!
See attachment below.

or Stine murder, and that RPD discounted him as a suspect years ago.

Says who?

Says the RPD. They checked him out. He had an alibi, and to this day that have a prime suspect – not Sullivan.

This is the first I’ve seen of this letter stating Ross’ prints were checked by Dave Toschi, very interesting !
Thanks for posting Chaucer !

"patton" may be in a cipher?

You are proving my point, 5’4" is out of range. But if that person was hanging around the library the night of the Bates murder, then moved to the bay area for the time-frame of Z crimes, he would get a look.

Nope – 5’4” would be 4 or 5 inches shorter than most estimates of the shooter at BRS / PH. If you’re saying 6’2” is acceptable as an outlier then 5’4” can be at the other end. Also, is 260 – 300lbs the “range” for Z in your investigative parameters?

Don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying there’s no way Ross couldn’t be involved in this case somehow but the question you asked is why people might not favour him for the Bay Area activity. There’s my answer – his sheer size compared to the guy everyone reported seeing at BRS, PH (and Kathleen Johns too if you think she met Z).

Maybe because they feel that going by most eyewitness accounts, the shooter at BRS and PH wasn’t 6’2” and 260-300lbs?

This is the second flaw that is always used to eliminate RS.

Here is a simple fact: NO ONE KNOWS THE ACTUAL HEIGHT AND WEIGHT OF Z.

LB had the best evidence to height and weight, and that EVIDENCE (a stand-in for height, and soil compaction) points to around 6′ and very heavy.

Also no one knows RS actual height and weight, we only have mentions of it being (6’2” and 260-300lbs).
But I’m sure in a few weeks or months, some new troll will make the same played out argument that have been debunked over and over……

At the risk of sounding like a troll, I think your statement above is not accurate. Bryan admitted he was not good at judging height, Cecelia saw the attacker from a distance and then up close with a hood, other people saw someone who may or may not have been the attacker, and the weight estimate from the footprints has been questioned. Meanwhile, we have an eye witness who watched Z, from ground level, for a long period of time, with Z standing next to a cab (for height reference) and this witness then actually followed Z down the street. What this witness described could not have been Ross. Now, does that mean Ross definitely wasn’t Z? Of course not. But the best witness we have describes the killer of Paul Stine such that it, if the description is accurate, could not have been him.

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtop … f=30&t=402

I have talked to the Robbins kids extensively and they are a remarkable couple of kids. …Some background… This is an upperclass neighborhood (Duh!) The Robbins father was (maybe still is) a renowned surgeon. At the time of the murder, the senior Robbins was about a block away attending a formal dinner at the Belgian Embassy. You can begin to get the status and education of the family. The kids (Lindsey and Rebecca were 16 and 13 Respectively) were having friends over for TV, Popcorn, games, etc. There was no alcohol as some have suggested.

As both Robbons kids were the oldest, their statements were the given the most weight. Also they were the least traumatized by the event. One of the kids (not sure which) noticed a cab parked outside (in that now famous spot) with the interior lights on. (I have to insert my personal experiences here.. In the late 60’s the American cars were large and roomy. I drove an identical police car many years ago and can tell you the interior dome light was very bright. It was even brighter when you removed the opaque plastic lens that covered the bulb. We (police) did it so we could more easily read/write reports in the car, and I noted that cabs also removed these lens covers for the same reasons: to be able to read/write reports, trip tickets, make change for passengers, etc.

So when Lindsey told me that the light inside the car was like a spotlight, it was so bright… I knew what he meant (even though he didn’t).

To continue…the first kid at the window sain the driver looked "sick, or something". Lindsey and Rebecca went to the window and saw the driver laying across the front seat, head toward the passenger door. His head was in the lap of another man (passenger). Rebecca saw blood and said out loud, "he’s stabbing that man." She was seeing blood on the victim and saw the glint of a knife, so she assumed a stabbing was taking place. (No shots were heard by anyone)
We know now that Z was cutting off a large piece of Stein’s shirt with the knife.

At this time, lindsey went downstairs to get a better look at what was happening, while one of the kids upstairs called the Police. Downstairs, the lights were off, so Lindsey knew he could not be seen from the outside. He got close to the window and watched his actions. He was shortly joined by Rebecca. They both watched and observed in silence as Z pushed the driver to an upright position behind the steering wheel, exited the car and walked around the rear of the car and opened the drivers door. Stein had fallen over onto the seat and Z pulled him back up into the seated position and had some difficulty keeping him upright. Once upright, he was seen to have a rag, or something like a handkerchief and began to wipe down the door area and leaning over the driver, part of the dashboard. Whe he was finished, Z calmly walked to Cherry St. and walked North.

Not many know this, but Lindsey (being 16. feeling immortal, and beleiving the susp to be armed with only a knife) ran out his door to see where Z was going. He ran to the corner of Cherry and watched as Z continued his casual pace right up to the corner of Jackson & Cherry.

he followed him? was the kid show ross picture?

Marshall,

I’m trying to figure out how Zodiac could have Stine’s head in his lap without become completely covered in blood. If so, being soaked with blood would have made him quite conspicuous as he walked the streets and possibly used public transportation. How do you account for this, and do you think it is possible that this memory of the Robbins kids was inaccurate?

Marshall,

I’m trying to figure out how Zodiac could have Stine’s head in his lap without become completely covered in blood. If so, being soaked with blood would have made him quite conspicuous as he walked the streets and possibly used public transportation. How do you account for this, and do you think it is possible that this memory of the Robbins kids was inaccurate?

If you are saying you don’t believe that Lindsey Robbins got a real good look at Z as he was walking around the taxi, wiping things down, propping Stine up, and if you further don’t believe Lindsey went outside (where he met Pellesetti) and watched Z walk away, that is up to you. For me, Lindsey is by far the best witness regarding the Zodiac.

No, I’m not saying that at all. There’s no reason to get defensive.

I’m saying that if what Lindsey is saying is true, then how do we account for all of the blood that would seemingly get all over the Zodiac’s clothes? Surely, Foulke and his partner would have seen him with blood soaked hands and clothing. And if he used public transportation after the murder (which seems likely), someone surely would have noticed a man covered in blood. How do we square these two things?

No, I’m not saying that at all. There’s no reason to get defensive.

I’m saying that if what Lindsey is saying is true, then how do we account for all of the blood that would seemingly get all over the Zodiac’s clothes? Surely, Foulke and his partner would have seen him with blood soaked hands and clothing. And if he used public transportation after the murder (which seems likely), someone surely would have noticed a man covered in blood. How do we square these two things?

I’m sorry if I sounded defensive, didn’t mean to. What I was saying is that I don’t claim to have all the answers (basically I claim to have zero answers in this case) but I do believe Lindsey Robbin’s account and description of what he saw, which was most definitely Zodiac, and he saw him for an extended period, with a taxi cab as a reference to Z’s height, while under no fear for his personal safety. So, I just wanted to remind people of Lindsey’s account and let that be the word.

I don’t know how much blood Zodiac had on him, and I personally am quite skeptical he took public transportation. The idea of Z timing his crime and initial phase of his escape to a bus schedule, then waiting for a bus, then boarding it with presumably some amount of blood on him, never sounded plausible to me. Aren’t buses fairly well-lit, and at that time, in San Francisco, wouldn’t there have likely been a lot of other passengers? So Z is going to let, potentially, a bunch of people get a good look at him, in his bloody clothes, for an extended period as they all sit there, knowing that the next day when the news of the murder hits, many of those passengers will connect the Stine murder near the Presidio with that bloody passenger who entered the bus at that same time and location?

Z wasn’t going to let a bus driver with its other passengers have control of his escape. In my opinion, no way does he make himself that vulnerable, or relinquish that much control of the situation.

No, I’m not saying that at all. There’s no reason to get defensive.

I’m saying that if what Lindsey is saying is true, then how do we account for all of the blood that would seemingly get all over the Zodiac’s clothes? Surely, Foulke and his partner would have seen him with blood soaked hands and clothing. And if he used public transportation after the murder (which seems likely), someone surely would have noticed a man covered in blood. How do we square these two things?

I seriously doubt Zodiac put Stines head on his lap, Why would he do that ?

he followed him? was the kid show ross picture?

I doubt if he was ever shown a photo of Ross.

IIRC someone on this board posted Lindsay had passed away, so it’s too late now.

Maybe because they feel that going by most eyewitness accounts, the shooter at BRS and PH wasn’t 6’2” and 260-300lbs?

This is the second flaw that is always used to eliminate RS.

Here is a simple fact: NO ONE KNOWS THE ACTUAL HEIGHT AND WEIGHT OF Z.

It falls into a range. Members are so hubris, that they eliminate a suspect based on height and weight, even when it FALLS WITHIN THE RANGE OF Z DESCRIPTIONS.
It would be as foolish as someone eliminating suspects who were 5’9" because he feels Z was taller.

LB had the best evidence to height and weight, and that EVIDENCE (a stand-in for height, and soil compaction) points to around 6′ and very heavy.

Also no one knows RS actual height and weight, we only have mentions of it being (6’2” and 260-300lbs).
But I’m sure in a few weeks or months, some new troll will make the same played out argument that have been debunked over and over……

So people are "trolls" if they have a different opinion than you do….or if they think something different about the case than you do? Odd.

The reason I enjoy reading this forum over the other popular ones is because typically people chat/discuss/debate the case in a respectful manner. The insulting, calling people trolls, passive-aggressive smart-ass comments from forum leaders….you guys should leave all that crap for the other forums.

We are all adults. People should be able to discuss a 50 year old crime case without arguing and insulting each other. Just my opinion.

No, I’m not saying that at all. There’s no reason to get defensive.

I’m saying that if what Lindsey is saying is true, then how do we account for all of the blood that would seemingly get all over the Zodiac’s clothes? Surely, Foulke and his partner would have seen him with blood soaked hands and clothing. And if he used public transportation after the murder (which seems likely), someone surely would have noticed a man covered in blood. How do we square these two things?

I seriously doubt Zodiac put Stines head on his lap, Why would he do that ?

Do you think the kids were lying about seeing that? Seems like an odd thing for them to make up.

No, I’m not saying that at all. There’s no reason to get defensive.

I’m saying that if what Lindsey is saying is true, then how do we account for all of the blood that would seemingly get all over the Zodiac’s clothes? Surely, Foulke and his partner would have seen him with blood soaked hands and clothing. And if he used public transportation after the murder (which seems likely), someone surely would have noticed a man covered in blood. How do we square these two things?

I seriously doubt Zodiac put Stines head on his lap, Why would he do that ?

Do you think the kids were lying about seeing that? Seems like an odd thing for them to make up.

No, I don’t think they were lying I just think their view inside the cab was limited or maybe they meant Stine’s head was near
Z’s lap and not directly on it.

Do you think the kids were lying about seeing that? Seems like an odd thing for them to make up.

If Paul’s body had slumped over, which it apparently did, since Z came over to the other side to try to pull it upright, and if Z was in the front seat cutting the shirt piece, then where else would Paul’s head have been, other than in Z’s lap?