The one big question about Sullivan that still needs to be satisfied, for me, is how did this young man in his 20s devise codes that stumped the NSA, FBI, etc.? Do we know of any code training?

I think he’s a very interesting POI, but that’s a big question.

While it takes considerable skill and experience to crack some ciphers, it doesn’t necessarily take that much to make them.

Bottom line: If we assume that the 340 hasn’t been cracked because Z was a genius level cryptographer – then it will be very hard to come up with ANY viable suspects. And it also begs the question why he started out by creating a pretty basic one, which was cracked by a pair of amateurs.

The 340 could be uncrackable because it’s seriously flawed, either by design or accident, for all we know.

While it takes considerable skill and experience to crack some ciphers, it doesn’t necessarily take that much to make them.

Bottom line: If we assume that the 340 hasn’t been cracked because Z was a genius level cryptographer – then it will be very hard to come up with ANY viable suspects. And it also begs the question why he started out by creating a pretty basic one, which was cracked by a pair of amateurs.

The 340 could be uncrackable because it’s seriously flawed, either by design or accident, for all we know.

Agreed been my belief for years…may be get kasparov on the case

This profile has been mentioned before, but I wanted to go line by line in relation to Ross.
It’s also important to note, this is not a random profile picked to fit this suspect, it was the first profile published in Yellow Book, page 198.

——–
March 3, 1977 the FBI had requested copies of all the Zodiac letters. Even in 1977 the bureau was still poking around in the Zodiac case. The top psycholinguistics expert in the country, Dr. Murray S. Miron, working from nineteen of the killer’s letters, came to these conclusions about Zodiac in a secret Syracuse Research Institute report:

Zodiac has had some exposure to our training in elementary cryptography"
CON: No evidence Ross was into cryptography. (a library book is all he needed)

is a Caucasian unmarried male in his twenties.
PRO: Ross turned 28 in 1969. Never married

He is no more than high school educated,
PRO: Ross never got very far in College

reads little,
CON: No way to know. But he did work in a library.

is isolated, withdrawn, and unrelated in his habits,
PRO: From what we know it sounds true. Ross would write alone in the YMCA.

quiet and unprepossessing in disposition"
PRO: He was not a popular guy. He would sit alone like a statue on the library wall.

Miron felt the killer had good eyesight
No information.

and was " a discretionary illiterate, " someone who prefers " the passiveness of pictures, T V, and the movies" and does not even have a library of " cheap pocket books."
PRO: From what Allen says, Ross was into movies.

Zodiac, in Miron’s opinion, "would have spent much time in movie houses specializing in sado-masochistic and occult eroticism"
No information.

and was " a borderline psychotic…
PRO: He was in and out of mental hospitals.

His communications display the characteristic signs of magical thinking, and narcissistic infantilism typical of the schizophrenic.
PRO: Ross is believed to have been a schizophrenic.

"Zodiac rather well fits the pattern of what might be called pseudoreactive schizophrenia…Such individuals engage in their bizarre behavior as sort of a cover up for their underlying and more hidden psychosis. They can be expected to display wide swings of emotion from intense euphoria to deepest depression.

"He lives the secret life of seclusion and presents to the world a mask of containment, pleasantness and ordinariness."
PRO: Jon S. said Ross was a gentle soul and would never harm anyone.

Miron thought thee December 1969 letter to Melvin Belli contained hints of the depression that " frequently overtakes him… It is not unlikely that in one of those virulent depressions, such individuals could commit suicide."
PRO: It is believed Ross died because he was grossly obese by 1977. Over eating is linked to depression.

Because of Zodiac’s concern with control, Miron felt he would shun the "disinhibiting effects of alcohol," and would avoid norman sexual contacts with women."
PRO: Allen talked about how Ross could not have a real relationship with a woman.

Another profiler saying Z was likely a paranoid schizophrenic-

"Another psychological assessment of the killer’s personality appeared in the October 21, 1969 edition of The San Francisco Examiner. The headline read, “Zodiac’s Graph: Impotent, Shrewd and Paranoid,” and the accompanying article presented a portrait painted by William F. Baker, a handwriting expert armed with thirty five years of experience and master’s degrees in psychology and abnormal psychology."

"In an interview with reporter Sam Blumenfeld, Baker offered his insights after what he called an “exhaustive” study of the Zodiac’s writings. “He feels suspended between heaven and hell, not sure of himself and feels caught in a trap of merely existing.” Baker explained how certain characteristics in the killer’s writing revealed more about his state of mind. “The strong slant to the left of the lower letters denotes a ‘mother hostility’ and an unhappy childhood. Carry that trait further and you find the man who is afraid of women and hates them. Carry that to a further extreme and you have a man who is capable of killing women to get even with his mother.” Like others before him, Baker speculated about the Zodiac’s possible feelings of inadequacy and his psycho-sexual compulsions. “The probability is that he is impotent and a watcher rather than a participant in sex.” Baker told Blumenfeld that the killer was most likely not a homosexual but that he was unquestionably paranoid and schizophrenic"

This further makes Ross a very interesting Suspect

The profiles seem to make the case for tk and not ross…but that is not completly fair as we need to learn more about ross…i like ross and gaik both but so little is actually known as fact it makes me question the validity of why they both are pushed as primary poi’s and not secondary..i am not one to rail on anybody who has a poi..those that have pushed there guy deserve credit for there effort…all i care about is getting some justice for victims and closure for the family…all my take…god speed

These profiles are certainly interesting (to anyone who studies the Z case), but they’re bound to be somewhat outdated. A modern expert might reach different conclusions and place Z in different categories.

Actually, you could probably swap "might" for "will".

These profiles are certainly interesting (to anyone who studies the Z case), but they’re bound to be somewhat outdated. A modern expert might reach different conclusions and place Z in different categories.

Actually, you could probably swap "might" for "will".

very nice way of saying it. I find there’s a lot of grasping at straws like that in this thread. Granted Sullivan had a widow’s peak and was overweight, and granted his tie to possible victim, CJB, but other than that the arguments become tenuous at best. Show me where, in the correspondence or in the crimes themselves, where it points to Z being a paranoid schizophrenic. Even the collecting slaves part doesn’t seem that delusional, compared to some of the belief systems out there. Have you heard what scientologists and Mormons believe in?

Have you heard what scientologists and Mormons believe in?

Now THAT is schizo!! ……"not that there is anything wrong with it"

Even the collecting slaves part doesn’t seem that delusional, compared to some of the belief systems out there.

Yep – and then we might question to what extent he actually believed in this stuff too. For my money it’s very possible that the slaves-in-the-afterlife business was just as seriously meant as his threat to blow up school buses.

These profiles are certainly interesting (to anyone who studies the Z case), but they’re bound to be somewhat outdated. A modern expert might reach different conclusions and place Z in different categories.

Actually, you could probably swap "might" for "will".

very nice way of saying it. I find there’s a lot of grasping at straws like that in this thread. Granted Sullivan had a widow’s peak and was overweight, and granted his tie to possible victim, CJB, but other than that the arguments become tenuous at best. Show me where, in the correspondence or in the crimes themselves, where it points to Z being a paranoid schizophrenic. Even the collecting slaves part doesn’t seem that delusional, compared to some of the belief systems out there. Have you heard what scientologists and Mormons believe in?

It is actually very rare for a schizophrenic to be violent toward others. That has been my problem with RS the whole time. It seems like this disease hit him in the early 1960’s and by the early 1970’s it had nearly destroyed him. I just don’t know if he was mentally capable of committing the crimes. I’ve seen paranoid schizophrenia patients that went years without treatment and they are far beyond anything Z did. If anything, I would count him having schizophrenia as a con.

Tenuous at best Joe? Read or reread the quick synopsis. He’s intriguing in several ways. And WOW Tahoe! Bashing someone’s religion? I didn’t think a moderator would have to be told that’s not cool.

These profiles are certainly interesting (to anyone who studies the Z case), but they’re bound to be somewhat outdated. A modern expert might reach different conclusions and place Z in different categories.

Actually, you could probably swap "might" for "will".

very nice way of saying it. I find there’s a lot of grasping at straws like that in this thread. Granted Sullivan had a widow’s peak and was overweight, and granted his tie to possible victim, CJB, but other than that the arguments become tenuous at best. Show me where, in the correspondence or in the crimes themselves, where it points to Z being a paranoid schizophrenic. Even the collecting slaves part doesn’t seem that delusional, compared to some of the belief systems out there. Have you heard what scientologists and Mormons believe in?

It is actually very rare for a schizophrenic to be violent toward others. That has been my problem with RS the whole time. It seems like this disease hit him in the early 1960’s and by the early 1970’s it had nearly destroyed him. I just don’t know if he was mentally capable of committing the crimes. I’ve seen paranoid schizophrenia patients that went years without treatment and they are far beyond anything Z did. If anything, I would count him having schizophrenia as a con.

My sentiments exactly. On the surface, sure, a guy wearing an executioner’s getup, calling himself some comic book villain like name may smack of someone suffering from severe delusions — almost reminiscent of the Joker wannabe who went on a rampage a few years ago — but Z is a hunter, fully conscious of his actions. I honestly cannot understand how anyone could see it in any other way, putting it all in context, the ciphers, taunts, his ambush m.o.. etc.

Everybody is entitled to their opinions, but, it seems as if people are simply dismissing the opinions of these profilers about Z being possibly schizo, simply because it was 1969, and they didn’t know what they were talking about. All due respect, those guys were trained professionals dealing with mental illnesses,so I think, 1969 or not, they likely know more about mental illness more than anybody on this forum-1969 or not. Nobody knows exactly what Ross’s mental state was during 1969-74 or how lucid he was. In late 73 or 74, he had a mental conservatorship put into place, so around that time, it’s safe to say, he was not doing well, and coincidentally or not, that’s when the Z letters end.

Tenuous at best Joe? Read or reread the quick synopsis. He’s intriguing in several ways. And WOW Tahoe! Bashing someone’s religion? I didn’t think a moderator would have to be told that’s not cool.

I guess I am not cool. Scientology is whacked.

It would not surprise me in the least if ross was not confined in mental institution from late 60’s onward for any extended period of time..do a little research on the political climate in late 60’s with mental institutions..now morf i agree the mental analysis on ross then is as good as can be done today..it was done at nuremberg on the nazis and who is out disputing those findings..ok grant you the army refused release of the IQ data cause everybody thought they were dumb as dirt..my how surprising that data was on inteliggence and sanity of the resenburgs, goring, ribbentrop, goebels, keitel..etc….problem we face with ross outside of rcc is where the hell were you ross?..no he stayed at the Y is not going to suffice..

i dunno..ross right now is like believing gaik is the guy cause stine lived 2 doors down..but ross is a nice trump card..cause there is nobody else at this point that can positivly be placed in the library…gaik holds his trump card because he can be placed in SF without question..