Unless Ross knew how to tan hides those would be some pretty gnarly skins that this girl supposedly hung on her wall. I cannot imagine anyone wanting untanned hides on their wall. While Ross may have given someone sheep skins they were probably already tanned and maybe second goods.

Hehe, good point.

That makes the whole business even more hazy. If the girl actually had sheep skins around she had been given by Ross, I would propose this as a possible explanation: He was working for a sheep farmer, was allowed to slaughter a couple of animals for services rendered, and was also given some prepared/tanned skins by the same farmer. Which he then gave to the girl.

Serves to illustrate the main point, I’d say: Without the full picture, it’s almost meaningless to speculate about such anecdotes. It could be anything – or nothing, as the case may be. It could be based on some misconception or other which is now fifty years old.

With that in mind, another scenario. I was in an accident in April 1967 and spent almost three months in the hospital, most of that time in traction. I was given a sheepskin to lay on to lessen the chances of getting bedsores. We know that Ross had health issues and he was a big guy. It’s possible that during one or more of his stays in a mental hospital that he, too, was given a sheepskin particularly if he spent much of his time in bed while hospitalized.

Honestly, the sheepskins, if they did exist, could have come from any number of places.

Katz-

"Ross had had often hung out at Noelle’s and there were some sheep skins hanging up outside her home. Noel said that at some time earlier Ross had killed, butchered and killed some sheep. This was very unusual for anyone we knew to kill much less butcher an animal. I heard that the police had come by Noelle’s seen the skins and asked questions about Ross. Apparently they did not think that this was suspicious. Me and many friends thought it might be Ross but it was only a conjecture. Several years later I saw Tim who came down from Canada where he and Bonnie had moved during the Viet Nam war. Tim told me that he was sure his brother Ross was the Zodiac killer. Ross was a writer, poet and painter but also a psychotic whose parents had died when he was in"

Some of the more interesting points are in bold. One thing this does prove, is that Ross used a knife, as did Cheri’s Killer and Zodiac.

Katz’s account matches up with Ross’s high school friend Allan, and with Joann Bailey the Librarian as far as poetry, art, etc Got me thinking…what are the chances that the white ‘paint’ on the Avery Halloween card, could actually be the stylus paint used by Ross at RCC?

Katz’s account matches up with Ross’s high school friend Allan, and with Joann Bailey the Librarian as far as poetry, art, etc Got me thinking…what are the chances that the white ‘paint’ on the Avery Halloween card, could actually be the stylus paint used by Ross at RCC?

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2466&p=34841#p34841

Has anyone been able to compare samples of the white ink Ross Sullivan was using at the RCC library to the Halloween card?

As always I apologize if this has been covered already…

Thanks.

Apparently they did not think that this was suspicious. Me and many friends thought it might be Ross but it was only a conjecture.

For the sake of clarity…this is unclear. What’s he referring to here? They thought it might be Ross who had killed and skinned the sheep – or they thought it was Ross who killed Bates?

I’m thinking the latter, as he has already stated that the girl (Noelle) told them it was Ross who had killed the sheep – so that would hardly be conjecture on their part.

What the police did, exactly, is unclear too. They drove past her place and noticed the skins – and inquired about Ross. Doesn’t make immediate sense to me. And it makes even less sense if they didn’t think it (presumably the fact that Ross had killed and skinned the sheep) was suspicious.

All in all, it’s a bit too rambling to be highly useful – no disrespect to Katz, he was presumably just telling people about Ross back in the day, he wasn’t trying to please a pedant like myself. But this too illustrates the points above: Anecdotal evidence is problematic.

All in all, it’s a bit too rambling to be highly useful – no disrespect to Katz, he was presumably just telling people about Ross back in the day, he wasn’t trying to please a pedant like myself. But this too illustrates the points above: Anecdotal evidence is problematic.

Agree totally.

Where I live, many neighbors are deer hunters. They stalk and shoot them, gut them, and a day later, glassy-eyed deer are hanging in their garages. Nothing the least bit suspect or unusual about these people. It would be the same thing with people who raise sheep for slaughter. For that matter, look at all the normal people who work in slaughterhouses, or your local butcher. Killing and skinning animals is really rather common and the evidence is in your hands every time you pick up a hamburger, or put on a pair of work gloves.

Norse, as you point out, way too many unknowns with the details of the sheep story. But if the basic, high-level account is accurate – that Ross did kill and/or skin sheep, it might be safe to assume he would’ve known that kind of work required a knife much larger than the one used to kill Cheri.

I’ve always thought the killer of Cheri wanted to talk with her, and that had the conversation gone in a satisfactory direction, she may not have been attacked at all. In other words, the killer wasn’t 100% prepared to commit murder. Not saying that points to Ross – just suggesting, if her killer was Ross, and if murder was the sole objective, he would’ve realized he needed a larger knife, IMO.

I’ve been a hunter for 30yrs. Some of the guys from those days brag about how small a knife they use to gut and skin a deer.

No Hugh Beaumont didn’t die that young. He was just dead before they made the Leave It To Beaver movie, in the 1980’s. All the other actors were still alive, even Lumpy and Eddie.

I bet that guy skinned those sheep alive.

I bet that guy skinned those sheep alive.

And then downed a 6 pack of hamms beer (HAMMS WAS MADE IN SAN FRAN) yep Z liked the hamms beer..personally i would only like to know who rpd cleared and why..that is all…god speed

Sheep skins were very popular back in the day..still are to some degree today..if you drove a convertible you could drive top down in cold weather and they kept you warm.(vinyl interior in those days 110 degrees at the beach and in the mountains your nuts froze to the seat..been there done that)…..you can still today buy hides that any good upholestry shops could turn into anything you wanted to cover..Z was lonely..so he thought he should at least be comfy while running between crime scenea…z an sheepskins..well whatever works i guess

I bet that guy skinned those sheep alive.

And then downed a 6 pack of hamms beer (HAMMS WAS MADE IN SAN FRAN) yep Z liked the hamms beer..personally i would only like to know who rpd cleared and why..that is all…god speed

Sheep skins were very popular back in the day..still are to some degree today..if you drove a convertible you could drive top down in cold weather and they kept you warm.(vinyl interior in those days 110 degrees at the beach and in the mountains your nuts froze to the seat..been there done that)…..you can still today buy hides that any good upholestry shops could turn into anything you wanted to cover..Z was lonely..so he thought he should at least be comfy while running between crime scenea…z an sheepskins..well whatever works i guess

I hope he wasn’t doing anything funny with those sheep, ewe know what I mean. As far as San Francisco beer, I have been drinking Anchor Steam for many years. That’s a good beer. Yes you can bet some answers need to be asked of RPD.

I’ve always thought the killer of Cheri wanted to talk with her, and that had the conversation gone in a satisfactory direction, she may not have been attacked at all. In other words, the killer wasn’t 100% prepared to commit murder.

I agree – that seems like the most likely scenario: A rage kill with a weapon he wouldn’t have selected if the murder had been premeditated. This is, of course, one of the clearest indicators we have that the killer actually knew her. It seems very unlikely that some psycho who had never seen her before decided to chat her up and then went into a rage when she wasn’t into it.

To me the ruse with the car isn’t what it normally would be: It was done to create an opportunity to get close to her, alone, but not necessarily to kill her. If murder was the plan, the weapon simply doesn’t make sense.

Just my take, of course.

This is another concern of mine when it comes to Ross being her killer.

Regardless of the "why", Ross was a big guy and I see there pretty much being zero struggle if he was the one behind it.

Cheri was a very petite young woman (who no doubt fought for her life) but, I don’t see the struggle that took place happening with Ross as the perp.

If we say "Ross didn’t kill her, he was just the letter writer/poem writer, and possibly Zodiac, then that should say to supporters Zodiac DID take credit for crimes he did not commit. KJ for example.

This is another concern of mine when it comes to Ross being her killer.

Regardless of the "why", Ross was a big guy and I see there pretty much being zero struggle if he was the one behind it.

Cheri was a very petite young woman (who no doubt fought for her life) but, I don’t see the struggle that took place happening with Ross as the perp.

If we say "Ross didn’t kill her, he was just the letter writer/poem writer, and possibly Zodiac, then that should say to supporters Zodiac DID take credit for crimes he did not commit. KJ for example.

While I couldn’t see Cheri fighting Ross off, I could see her or anybody fighting for their life giving somebody all that they could handle, and getting some licks in,which Cheri definitely did do. I’m on the fence as far as whether Z killed Cheri or not, but since I think it’s very possible Z only wrote letters in her case, it doesn’t matter to me one way or the other. Then again, if things really did go down as the Librarian described, and Ross suddenly vanished for a couple weeks, and returned later with new clothes, the timing would seem to have some importance. Why would he suddenly leave,and then reappear weeks later with new clothes?

Well, for me it’s been a given almost that he definitely took credit for stuff he didn’t do – so I have no problem with the "didn’t kill her but did the writing) theory in itself. It’s the particulars I have a problem with there. The timeline, the nature of the communications, etc.

But as a basic theory I don’t have a problem with the idea itself. Z was an opportunist whose main agenda was to boost his notoriety. If he could do that by taking credit for other people’s misdeeds, he’d have no problem with that. Or so I think.

Why would he suddenly leave,and then reappear weeks later with new clothes?

It’s suspicious as hell if it went down just as the librarian suggested. But there’s an "if" there which is considerable. As masootz said above, this could be a matter of how they – who were afraid of him, thought he was creepy, etc. – both remembered the events and portrayed them later. Not a question of lying or even exaggerating at all – just a question of human nature.

Anyway, if we assume for the time being that Ross was Z, but that he only did the writing – how does this tie in with the fact that he actually had some sort of connection to her (he certainly would have known her peripherally, known who she was, etc.)?

If it was someone else, who didn’t have any particular ties to her at all – but who decided to insert himself into the case because he liked the idea – that’s one thing. His behavior isn’t that hard to categorize. There have been many examples of people doing something similar – but I can’t say I know of anyone who has done this from a position where he or she knew the victim. Glad to be proven wrong – I’m always looking for precedents.

See, the thing is that a "credit taker" of this kind is usually some disturbed individual who learns about the case from reading the papers or something similar, not someone who has any sort of actual connection to the people involved. Any thoughts appreciated – especially pertaining to possible precedents or psychological theories which could account for this.