In the video by Paul, there is a police officer in the film who comments to the news reporter that the suspect was around 6’2" tall, with reddish hair and a widows peak. Why are there so many dis rioting? You know who the cop was describing.

Who would that be? AFAIK the only police officer who actually saw the suspect in either the Bates or Z cases, was Don Fouke (well, apart from Zelms, but he was never interviewed) and he never had him as tall as that.

It looked like a policeman who was on scene and spoke to one of the kids that got shot. I saw it in the film uploaded by Paul A. and I had never seen this comment on film before.

Hm, no idea what that’s about – he spoke to Mageau or Hartnell?

I watched PA’s movie back when he first uploaded it but I can’t recall the details and I can’t access it now (connection trouble here, extremely slow Internet ATM).

At any rate, Fouke is the only cop who ever saw Z and described him – and I don’t recall him ever deviating much from his initial height estimate (which was well below 6’2).

Well, well – I guess someone will come along and clear it up.

Nothing like being educated by Archie Bunker!

Once and awhile you get shown the light
In the strangest places if you look at it right

It seems that some are simply assuming RPD didn’t do their job well enough, or that Ross – a very vague notion which doesn’t seem to be based on anything at all – either threatened someone into providing an alibi for him, or was shielded by his family. There’s no evidence of this, however, and the latter notion is a serious accusation which hardly – you’d think – makes his relatives more sympathetic to the cause.

Being that RPD brought in SFPD even tho they didn’t believe their guy was Z, I can’ t think we are dealing with the brightest bulbs in the universe. That still bothers me no end- WHY would you bring in a reporter, give him documents, and lessen your case against your man? If that is any indication, I can see where RPD may not have always done everything with the utmost of professionalism.

Didn’t the R.P.D. not care for Avery? I think it was professional courtesy (and responsibility) that led them to work with the S.F.P.D., but thought they didn’t open up to Avery himself. ??

Being that RPD brought in SFPD even tho they didn’t believe their guy was Z, I can’ t think we are dealing with the brightest bulbs in the universe. That still bothers me no end- WHY would you bring in a reporter, give him documents, and lessen your case against your man? If that is any indication, I can see where RPD may not have always done everything with the utmost of professionalism.

They contacted other PDs and had the Bates prints compared to the Z prints – which was professional of them, if you ask me. There was no match – and from there on they seem to have been convinced either that a) "Bob" was their man or b) generally that Z didn’t kill Bates.

Avery was tipped off by someone, he wasn’t brought in formally by the RPD – and they didn’t give him any documents either, AFAIK.

Perhaps they weren’t the brightest bulbs, as you say, but that is a matter of speculation. Plus, we have no idea what the nature of Ross’ alibi actually is. And still people seem willing to speculate that it may be no good – based on absolutely nothing.

Avery was tipped off by someone, he wasn’t brought in formally by the RPD – and they didn’t give him any documents either, AFAIK.

I know Avery was tipped off by Phil Sins,who was pestering RPD to look at Bates as being a Z crime, which is likely why they reached out to Zodiac investigators, but what’s your source about Avery NOT being given some of the materials by RPD to bring back for examination by Morrill?

Remember, Paul Avery was sent an authentic letter from Zodiac threatening him. He could be completely trusted by everybody. He wanted the Zodiac caught more than anybody else, as his life was in danger given the fact he started carrying a gun.

Remember, Paul Avery was sent an authentic letter from Zodiac threatening him. He could be completely trusted by everybody. He wanted the Zodiac caught more than anybody else, as his life was in danger given the fact he start the carrying a gun.

This may be true, but the proper method to preserve chain/custody of evidence,would be for the police to give it to other police, and not to a civilian. I am just curious what Norse’s source for the info was that Avery wasn’t given material to bring back to the bay area

Rember also, the cops weren’t as anal retentive as they are these days.

Well, that’s true. I know for a fact that some Z investigators in the ‘old days’ took some z case evidence home with them as ‘souvenirs’. That’s highly irregular and frowned upon

…but what’s your source about Avery NOT being given some of the materials by RPD to bring back for examination by Morrill?

None – I take that back.

I don’t remember the details pertaining to the whole Avery business – but I think he was given a file of some sort by the RPD (after having contacted them subsequent to getting the tip). However, this was well after the RPD had contacted other departments – and after the print comparison had come back negative from the FBI.

What I should have said was that the RPD weren’t as sappy as MM seemed to suggest: They didn’t just hand over a bunch of documents to a reporter.

As for Avery taking the exemplars back for Morrill to examine – I don’t know if that’s actually true. Seems odd to say the least. Avery had no authority to make Morrill examine anything – so in what capacity did he bring him the material? As some sort of courier for the SFPD?

…but what’s your source about Avery NOT being given some of the materials by RPD to bring back for examination by Morrill?

None – I take that back.

I don’t remember the details pertaining to the whole Avery business – but I think he was given a file of some sort by the RPD (after having contacted them subsequent to getting the tip). However, this was well after the RPD had contacted other departments – and after the print comparison had come back negative from the FBI.

What I should have said was that the RPD weren’t as sappy as MM seemed to suggest: They didn’t just hand over a bunch of documents to a reporter.

As for Avery taking the exemplars back for Morrill to examine – I don’t know if that’s actually true. Seems odd to say the least. Avery had no authority to make Morrill examine anything – so in what capacity did he bring him the material? As some sort of courier for the SFPD?

In Graysmith’s book, he is very specific that they gave the letters to Avery to bring to Sacramento, and that Morrill, actually requested and examined Avery’s writing. Could that be BS? Sure, but I haven’t seen anything anyplace that proves that was BS.

Given it’s RG I suppose it could be, say, creative license more than actual BS. I’ve always thought it was a myth myself – but who knows. It just seems plain unprofessional to let a reporter be in charge of submitting evidence to a QDE.

That Morrill requested samples of Avery’s handwriting I can easily believe, however. That would be prudent given his role in the whole affair.

Just to clarify my response to MM above (which was stupidly formulated): My point is that there is no reason to think that the RPD foolishly handed out material to Avery in a manner which could jeopardize the investigation.

The RPD may have been both this and that, but there isn’t anything in their relationship with Avery that supports that notion – in my opinion. They apparently gave him a “file” (so described) which essentially contained what we call the Riverside connection. But they didn’t do so until well after they had been in contact with other departments.

Avery didn’t connect dots nobody had connected before – on the contrary, the Riverside connection had been suggested as a possibility by RPD themselves well before Avery was tipped off.

In reading the letter from Jo Anne Bailey again, it’s interesting to note how as we learn more about Ross, things in the letter also line up as being correct.

She gives a date (11/9/67) that Ross had his records sent to UCSC. Then correctly mentions he was in a mental institution after that.

This is verified by his brother. He said Ross was in a mental hospital (Agnews) around the time of the Z crimes.

I you read between the lines, the brother says two things.
1) Ross was in the Bay Area during the time of the Z crimes.
2) The brother doesn’t know the exact dates.

The letter also mentions:

*Ross wrote a poem for a school publication. Maybe our Riverside member can dig that up from the RCC archives.

*The youngest brother’s (Jon’s) step father was the pastor at CJB’s church. Even more of a connection their.

*Ross was seen on campus the night CJB was killed.

*Ross’s job involved marking up books with WHITE INK. We have a watch found with white paint at the CJB scene, later Z uses white ink on the Halloween card.