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Atlanta Child Murders & Letters: Killer, Zodiac or Hoaxer?

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(@whymore)
Posts: 12
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

I was doing some research about Ted K’s brother David (hard to find much info on him- his book is also vague) and found this list of addresses for him.

I noticed there are several addresses in Florida— Jacksonville, Tampa, Maragte…..

I seem to remember that one of the VANPAC bombs was sent to the NAACP in Jacksonville FL.
Does anyone know if there are any other possible links to Florida for Ted K ?

Thanks!

 
Posted : July 24, 2019 2:26 am
AK Wilks
(@ak-wilks)
Posts: 1407
Noble Member
 

Generally speaking, we do not post private information, such as actual addresses of living persons. There are privacy and liability issues involved.

When you type in a name and get 5, 6, 7, 8 or 10 addresses, they very likely do not all belong to the one person you’re looking to get information on. It is likely that there are two or more people with the same name and that’s why you get so many addresses. Kaczynski is a fairly common polish name, and there are many Polish Americans who have the last name Kaczynski.

In answer to your question, no I do not know of any links between the state of Florida and Ted Kaczynski. In the case you’re referring to involving the judge Vance bomb investigation, they’re also bombs detonated in Georgia and Alabama. And I know of no links between the states of Georgia or Alabama and Ted Kaczynski either.

As you know, I investigated the theory that the person convicted in the series of bombings, which killed Alabama federal judge Robert Vance and a Georgia attorney, was that the person convicted, and very unfortunately executed, Roy Moody, was innocent of these crimes. And that the responsible party may have actually been Ted Kaczynski.

There is a whole thread here devoted to the topic, which also looks at the Oakland May 1990 car bombing of Earth First! activist, socialist and feminist and critic of the Unabomber Judi Bari. (She called the Unabomber crazy, pursued peaceful negotiations with the logging industry, Ted accused her of "emasculating" the radical environmental movement. and the exact same very rare ball trigger used to detonate the bomb in her car was found in Ted’s cabin.)I argued that there were any number of factors that should have been considered that pointed to Ted K as a suspect in the Vance case.

First and foremost of all, these include the fact that of the more than 16, 000 bombs in the ATF database, there were only nine bombs that had bolts through end caps, secured by a nut. One done by Moody in 1972, incompetently built and defective, which accidentally exploded when moved by his wife, two Vance case bombs in 1989, two bombs affixed to L.A. power towers in 1989 (which Moody could not have done) and bombs sent by Kaczynski in 1994 – 1996. And there were many other factors, all of which I outline in the topic thread on this issue.

I researched as good as I could, and I sent all the information I developed to Mr. Moody’s attorneys and the Governor of Alabama. I was excellently assisted in my research by Darla Jones and in developing a graphic presentation by Traveller1st. Someday I’ll tell the whole sad story. Part of it is that Mr. Moody’s attorneys, Federal public defenders , elected not to present the research I developed to the court. Instead they went with an idiotic argument that I told them the Trump Administration would intervene in the case and shoot down. The Trump Administration did exactly that and the other weak procedural arguments they raised were also shot down by the court.

As Federal public defenders , they are paid by the exact same federal government that I was accusing of massive incompetence and trying to execute an innocent man. They refused to pursue my argument and evidence showing actual innocence , I suspect because they work for the federal government and they didn’t want to cause a stir , and instead went with arguments that assumed Mr. Moody’s guilt and raised week procedural issues. Through FOIA requests, Darla Jones uncovered a "smoking gun" document showing that the politically ambitious federal prosecutor leading the investigation, Louis Freeh, was notified that the assertions made that only Moody used the rare bolts through end caps was false, as the LA bombs had this technique. This was a textbook Brady violation, refusal to disclose exculpatory evidence to the defendant. The incompetent and/or complicit federal defenders refused to present this to the court.

The spokesman for the governor replied to my package and stated that the governor was satisfied that the jury reached a correct verdict and that no appeals court had overturned the verdict.

When the Zodiac was seen in October of 1969 and a sketch was developed and widely circulated, that seemed to spook the Zodiac as he did no more confirmed in person crimes after that and he stated that it would no longer claim credit for his crimes. Similarly, when in 1986 the Unabomber was spotted placing a bomb in person, there was a sketch that was developed and very widely circulated, and after that for six years, from 1987 to 1993, there were no known confirmed bombs detonated and claimed by the Unabomber.

I argued that in the Vance cases, Kaczynski assumed another Persona, that of a Southern man angry at the criminal justice system, the federal government and minorities. Kaczynski deliberately picked areas that he had no known linkage to, such as Florida, Georgia and Alabama, and causes for which of the Unabomber was not identified, a specific hatred of the court system, and anger over school busing and black people committing crimes.

With the famous Unabomber sketch circulating, it was simply too hot to be the Unabomber for a while, and ihe didn’t want to give the feds a more evidence in the Unabomber case. So he adopted this fake persona, which allowed him to do more bombings, in which he could experiment with and perfect his bombing techniques, get the satisfaction of killing people and increase tensions and divisions in America. For the Judi Bari bombing, I argue he adopted the persona of a Christian Fundamentalist who sent threat letters and called himself the Lord’s Avenger.

MODERATOR

 
Posted : July 24, 2019 5:48 am
(@whymore)
Posts: 12
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

AK-
thanks for letting me know about the addresses. Makes sense now that you say it. I have seen many addresses listed but now that you mention it
they are usually are not current.

Won’t do that again.

Your research about the VANPAC is very compelling– tragic that Roy Moody was executed. Thank you for sharing it here.

I also recall a note postmarked 1981 March 2nd from Cleveland OH mailed to M.B.I. regarding the Atlanta child murders which spoke of
forced bussing. This would predate the Dec.1989 VANPAC bombings but point to the fact that racial motivations were on the radar. I recall also
something about the 1981 note having a Chicago connection I think the mailer was included in a Chicago newspaper but I cant remember off hand the exact details?

There was also the zodiac letter from march 8th, 1981 postmarked Atlanta with the peachtree address which places Z in the south potentially.
And Ted’s writings as the Unabomber and after he was convicted have obsessions with race/identity in them— so not surprising he would create
a persona to enact crimes which deal with racist ideology. I realize the VANPAC bombings are also a beard to change his MO- as the Unabomber bombings were attached to
ideas of environmentalism and anti-techno rhetoric. The purpose being to narratively and geographically confuse people into not drawing a connection between the two.

Its ironic to say the least that Ted is upheld as a revolutionary thinker by some. The people who uphold him as a radical thinker would be shamed to think that the same person they idolize was also a racist, woman/couple hating psychopath who’s main concerns were not nature and philosophy but killing and the thrill it gave him to do so and get away with it.

 
Posted : July 24, 2019 4:38 pm
(@whymore)
Posts: 12
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

AK– Thanks for posting the ATKID docs and info.

I was doing some reading about the Bowen Homes Day Care explosion (I have seen some research here about it) which occurred on Oct. 13th, 1981 in Atlanta. Most news reports say the explosion was caused by the boiler exploding or possibly being tampered with —but many of the residents who were there believe it was a bomb. Reclamation pt. 5 Documentary by William Scarbrough on the Atlanta Child Murders: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpjXvZf483I —has some footage from a town hall meeting in the days after the explosion in which people mention bomb threats being made?? From reading fragments of the FBI files- they mention calls being made on these dates:

1980 July 6th calls are placed to evening watch police? – from FBI files ATKID
1980 aug 21st calls are placed to morning watch police? – from FBI files
1980 sept12th calls are placed to police? – from FBI files ATKID

Does anyone have any further info regarding these calls or bomb threats being made during the period of time that the ATKID murders were happening in Atlanta?

————

Also I was re-reading Industrial Society and Its Future
and found the word FORCED was used 4 times….. reminded me of the FORCED BUSSING note.

In many cases the new technology changes society in such a way that people eventually find themselves FORCED to use it.

All these threaten the very survival of the system. The system will therefore be FORCED to use every practical means of controlling human behavior.

If a society needs a large, powerful law enforcement establishment, then there is something gravely wrong with that society; it must be subjecting people to severe pressures if so many refuse to follow the rules, or follow them only because FORCED.

In a world in which most children are put through a program to make them enthusiastic about studying, a parent will almost be FORCED to put his kid through such a program, because if he does not, then the kid will grow up to be, comparatively speaking, an ignoramus and therefore unemployable.

——–

a few clips from the "manifesto" stood out in how they seem to be obsessed with identity politics and leftism:

11…….They are hypersensitive about the words used to designate minorities and about anything that is said concerning minorities. The terms “negro”, “oriental”, “handicapped” or “chick” for an African, an Asian, a disabled person or a woman originally had no derogatory connotation. “Broad” and “chick” were merely the feminine equivalents of “guy”, “dude” or “fellow”. The negative connotations have been attached to these terms by the activists themselves. Some animal rights activists have gone so far as to reject the word “pet” and insist on its replacement by “animal companion”. Leftish anthropologists go to great lengths to avoid saying anything about primitive peoples that could conceivably be interpreted as negative. They want to replace the word “primitive” by “non-literate”. They seem almost paranoid about anything that might suggest that any primitive culture is inferior to our own…..

12. Those who are most sensitive about “politically in-correct” terminology are not the average black ghetto- dweller, Asian immigrant, abused woman or disabled per- son, but a minority of activists, many of whom do not even belong to any “oppressed” group but come from privileged strata of society. Political correctness has its stronghold among university professors, who have secure employment with comfortable salaries, and the majority of whom are heterosexual white males from middle- to upper-middle-class families.

13. Many leftists have an intense identification with the problems of groups that have an image of being weak (women), defeated (American Indians), repellent (homo- sexuals) or otherwise inferior. The leftists themselves feel that these groups are inferior. They would never admit to themselves that they have such feelings, but it is preci- sely because they do see these groups as inferior that they identify with their problems. (We do not mean to suggest that women, Indians, etc. ARE inferior; we are only ma- king a point about leftist psychology.)

14. Feminists are desperately anxious to prove that women are as strong and as capable as men. Clearly they are nagged by a fear that women may NOT be as strong and as capable as men.

15. Leftists tend to hate anything that has an image of being strong, good and successful. They hate America, they hate Western civilization, they hate white males, they hate rationality.

28….. Generally speaking, the goals of today’s leftists are NOT in conflict with the accepted morality. On the contrary, the left takes an accepted moral principle, adopts it as its own, and then accuses mainstream society of violating that principle. Examples: racial equality, equality of the sexes, helping poor people, peace as opposed to war, nonviolence generally, freedom of expression, kindness to animals. More fundamentally, the duty of the individual to serve society and the duty of society to take care of the individual. All these have been deeply rooted values of our society (or at least of its middle and upper classes [4] for a long time. These values are explicitly or implicitly expressed or presupposed in most of the material presented to us by the mainstream communications media and the educational system. Leftists, especially those of the over-socialized type, usually do not rebel against these principles but justify their hostility to society by claiming (with some degree of truth) that society is not living up to these principles.

29….. Many leftists push for affirmative action, for moving black people into high-prestige jobs, for improved education in black schools and more money for such schools; the way of life of the black “underclass” they regard as a social disgrace. They want to integrate the black man into the system, make him a business executive, a lawyer, a scientist just like upper-middle-class white people. The leftists will reply that the last thing they want is to make the black man into a copy of the white man; instead, they want to preserve African American culture. But in what does this preservation of African American culture consist? It can hardly consist in anything more than eating black-style food, listening to black-style music, wearing black-style clothing and going to a black-style church or mosque. In other words, it can express itself only in superficial matters. In all ESSENTIAL respects most leftists of the over-socialized type want to make the black man conform to white, middle-class ideals. They want to make him study technical subjects, become an executive or a scientist, spend his life climbing the status ladder to prove that black people are as good as white. They want to make black fathers “responsible,” they want black gangs to be- come nonviolent, etc. But these are exactly the values of the industrial- technological system. The system couldn’t care less what kind of music a man listens to, what kind of clothes he wears or what religion he believes in as long as he studies in school, holds a respectable job, climbs the status ladder, is a “responsible” parent, is nonviolent and so forth. In effect, however much he may deny it, the over- socialized leftist wants to integrate the black man into the system and make him adopt its values.

30. We certainly do not claim that leftists, even of the over-socialized type, NEVER rebel against the fundamental values of our society. Clearly they sometimes do. Some over-socialized leftists have gone so far as to rebel against one of modern society’s most important principles by en- gaging in physical violence. By their own account, violence is for them a form of “liberation.” In other words, by committing violence they break through the psychological restraints that have been trained into them. Because they are over-socialized these restraints have been more confining for them than for others; hence their need to break free of them. But they usually justify their rebellion in terms of mainstream values. If they engage in violence they claim to be fighting against racism or the like.

78. First, there doubtless are differences in the strength of the drive for power. Individuals with a weak drive for power may have relatively little need to go through the power process, or at least relatively little need for autonomy in the power process. These are docile types who would have been happy as plantation darkies in the Old South. (We don’t mean to sneer at the “plantation darkies” of the Old South. To their credit, most of the slaves were NOT content with their servitude. We do sneer at people who ARE content with servitude.)

147. To start with, there are the techniques of surveillance. Hidden video cameras are now used in most stores and in many other places, computers are used to collect and process vast amounts of information about individuals. Information so obtained greatly increases the effectiveness of physical coercion (i.e., law enforcement).

192. But the way to discourage ethnic conflict is NOT through militant advocacy of minority rights (see para- graphs 21, 29). Instead, the revolutionaries should emphasize that although minorities do suffer more or less disadvantage, this disadvantage is of peripheral significance. Our real enemy is the industrial- technological system, and in the struggle against the system, ethnic distinctions are of no importance.

—— lastly I wanted to post some editorials from the chicago tribune- maybe someone has already posted these but it seems writing into newspapers is a family affair.

[attachment=1]a huckster david k.jpg
[attachment=1]wanda k.jpg
[attachment=1]theodore r. kaczynski .jpg

 
Posted : July 26, 2019 10:23 am
AK Wilks
(@ak-wilks)
Posts: 1407
Noble Member
 

Thanks for posting that research. Honestly I don’t remember ever hearing about that Atlanta day care explosion. If you know of research on it, at this site or elsewhere, please post a link. It certainly catches my eye, for many reasons.

Zodiac threatened to blow up a school bus full of children and to do a sniper rifle attack to kill children getting off a disabled (by him) school bus. Here, during the height of the Atlanta Child Murders, in which there is a possible Zodiac letter and a letter like the Judge Vance bomber letter demanding an end to desegregation bussing, there is an explosion at a day care center, killing four children and one adult, injuring more.

The book The Secret Agent by Conrad, Ted based his life on, read over a dozen times and told his family to read to understand him. It features a professor who is an anarchist, a bomber and forms a terrorist group called FP. Ted was a professor, an anarchist, a bomber and starts a terrorist group named FC. The fictional professor says he must attack the "sacrosanct ideals of the modern age, science and LEARNING". From 1978, as FC,popularly known as the Unabomber, Ted attacked science. From perhaps 1966 until 1969, the Zodiac killed college students and twice threatened to kill children on school buses, once by bomb and once by sniper rifle attack. Was this partially an attack on learning?

The authorities seem to be saying a steam furnace exploded. Maybe. But killing four people and knocking down a brick wall and collapsing a building, I don’t know. At the town meeting, a military veteran stands up and says he doubts the official story, that he has seen buildings that were bombed, and that it looks like a bomb blast to him. I served in the Army as an MP, I have seen first hand bomb damage and military ordinance damage, and I have also spent a lot of time investigating bomb cases, and I agree with him.

Whymore:

I was doing some reading about the Bowen Homes Day Care explosion (I have seen some research here about it) which occurred on Oct. 13th, 1981 in Atlanta. Most news reports say the explosion was caused by the boiler exploding or possibly being tampered with —but many of the residents who were there believe it was a bomb. Reclamation pt. 5 Documentary by William Scarbrough on the Atlanta Child Murders: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpjXvZf483I —has some footage from a town hall meeting in the days after the explosion in which people mention bomb threats being made?? From reading fragments of the FBI files- they mention calls being made on these dates:

1980 July 6th calls are placed to evening watch police? – from FBI files ATKID
1980 aug 21st calls are placed to morning watch police? – from FBI files
1980 sept12th calls are placed to police? – from FBI files ATKID

AK Wilks: Could you post that document or a link to it?

Steam furnace explosions do happen by accident. But if that day care center received bomb threats in the weeks before the explosion, that creates a whole different scenario and is not likely to be a coincidence. That furnace is there for 40 years, then someone makes a bomb threat, and weeks later there is a huge explosion killing five people. That increases the odds it was either a bomb or sabotage of the furnace.

I watched that video of the town hall meeting, and there is a key sequence that reveals IMO an absolute smoking gun on the question of prior bomb threats.

3:50 A black man in the crowd speaks and states that he is a military veteran and while not totally discounting the idea of a furnace blast, the extensive loss of life and building damage he saw looks more like a bomb blast.

4:00 Atlanta Public Safety Commissioner Lee P Brown denies it was a bomb.

4:50 An audience member states that there have been rumors that the day care had received bomb threats.

5:32 Commissioner Brown asks a uniformed Atlanta Police Officer if they have any record of bomb threats. The uniformed officer whispers to Commissioner Brown that they did receive two bomb threats and kept a record of them (subtitles make their conversation clear, but you can actually hear it as well). Not wanting to make a very traumatized and angry audience even angrier, Commissioner Brown does not tell the truth he now knows, but just states he will look into it.

Ted Kaczynski made it clear that in order to bring down the modern techno – industrial system, one should use any kind of social conflict and social stresses to weaken it. Racial conflicts are one of the oldest, enduring and most powerful types of social conflict and stress. Here the 1981 Atlanta, Georgia writer, who correctly threatened and predicted three more deaths in March, demanded an end to forced bussing. The 1989 Judge Vance bomber, who also operated and struck in Atlanta,Georgia, demanded an end to desegregation of the schools by forced busing. This image for the Vance case, excellently created by Traveller1st, illustrates my points.

The Atlanta case is very interesting, and like many people I find the official story lacking. I tend to think Wayne Williams is probably guilty of the crimes he was convicted of, but those crimes did NOT involve children, but rather IIRC two mentally slow adults. Dozens of child murders remain unsolved and the FBI files have numerous reports of suspicious white men seen near child abduction or dumping sites. And there are many unresolved questions, like the letters and this explosion. I will look a little more into this, but there is a reason right now I can’t look too in depth at the moment. But it’s a good reason – that things are finally moving with a bit of positive progress elsewhere.

MODERATOR

 
Posted : July 27, 2019 1:32 am
(@whymore)
Posts: 12
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

I will look more into the Bowen home files I have- for now here is the FBI file I was wondering more about where they speak about
3 calls being made on 7-6-80, 8-21-80, 9-12-80

I have not heard that the daycare center people spoke directly of receiving threats but as you can tell from the footage there was concern.
The police and investigators called it an accident but in one article they clearly say that the boiler was rigged and that it was hard to know if it was on purpose or not.

I will try to attach a few articles I found in a Georgia news archive they might be too big.

 
Posted : July 27, 2019 3:56 am
(@whymore)
Posts: 12
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

not sure if the PDF’s are viewable but here are a few news photos of the Bowen Homes day care explosion

 
Posted : July 27, 2019 4:07 am
AK Wilks
(@ak-wilks)
Posts: 1407
Noble Member
 

AK Wilks:Whymore asked about several of the interesting letters that turned up in the Atlanta Child Murders case. One of them was signed by "Zodiac" and one demanded an end to forced busing, while threatening to kill three more boys in March. Three more boys did die in March.

Where any or all of these letters from the real Atlanta Child Killer, the real Zodiac or were they all from a hoaxer, perhaps the same hoaxer who did other fake Zodiac letters in a roughly similar time period.?

AK-
thanks for letting me know about the addresses. Makes sense now that you say it. I have seen many addresses listed but now that you mention it
they are usually are not current.

Won’t do that again.

Your research about the VANPAC is very compelling– tragic that Roy Moody was executed. Thank you for sharing it here.

I also recall a note postmarked 1981 March 2nd from Cleveland OH mailed to M.B.I. regarding the Atlanta child murders which spoke of forced bussing. This would predate the Dec.1989 VANPAC bombings but point to the fact that racial motivations were on the radar. I recall also
something about the 1981 note having a Chicago connection I think the mailer was included in a Chicago newspaper but I cant remember off hand the exact details?

[AK Wilks: Your memory is correct. See below.]

There was also the zodiac letter from march 8th, 1981 postmarked Atlanta with the peachtree address which places Z in the south potentially.
And Ted’s writings as the Unabomber and after he was convicted have obsessions with race/identity in them— so not surprising he would create
a persona to enact crimes which deal with racist ideology. I realize the VANPAC bombings are also a beard to change his MO- as the Unabomber bombings were attached to ideas of environmentalism and anti-techno rhetoric. The purpose being to narratively and geographically confuse people into not drawing a connection between the two.

[AK Wilks: Yes, the "Hello it’s me" letter. See below.]

Its ironic to say the least that Ted is upheld as a revolutionary thinker by some. The people who uphold him as a radical thinker would be shamed to think that the same person they idolize was also a racist, woman/couple hating psychopath who’s main concerns were not nature and philosophy but killing and the thrill it gave him to do so and get away with it.

AK Wilks: I moved this presentation and discussion of the Atlanta Child Killings letters you mentioned here.

Morf: Somehow, the actual image of this letter didn’t make it over to this thread(or I missed it),so here you go:

AK Wilks: EXCELLENT!!!

That IS the famous never before seen until now "Atlanta Child Murders" – "Zodiac" letter!

It was postmarked "Atlanta, GA March 8, 1981".

I wrote about it before:

I am doing a FOIA request for this letter mentioned in the FBI Atlanta Child Murders file.

It says it is from the Zodiac, and the FBI handwriting analyst could not say it was from Zodiac, but he could NOT exclude it as being from Zodiac.

All we know is it starts:

"Hello its me. Haven’t you…"


Another letter in this time frame, perhaps also from this "Zodiac", was a demand that the Washington Post classified run this ad as a secret message:

DANIEL PLEASE CALL HOME

[2019 AK Wilks: I find this fascinating. Ted Kaczynski used a system of placing ads in the classified section of newspapers, to convey secret messages to a radical environmentalist magazine, using an astrology pretext to convey the "stargazer’s lucky numbers", which were actually numbers that were a code. Even more fascinating, in the summer of 1968 in Michigan, a person with inside knowledge of the Robison murders (husband & wife couple, plus their four children), who police thought could be the actual killer, demanded that in order to get more information, police place an ad in the classified section saying "Dr. Guidini: Your prescription good. However, need additional. Zodius." The 6/25/68 Zodius Killer of the Robisons, like the 12/20/68 Zodiac Killer of Faraday and Jensen, used Winchester .22 Super X ammo fired from a gun with six lands and grooves with a right twist, identified by police as most consistent with and most likely coming from a Sears J.C. Higgins .22 pistol.]

At almost the same time, a message was sent in the same way as the Zodiac Sacramento Cancer and Leo cards – in a prepaid envelope.

This letter was treated as credible, there are 10 pages on it in the files, and 3 kids were killed that March in Atlanta.

Only three cities got this insert for classic model cars that the message came in – Harrisburg PA, Chicago IL and Long Beach FLA.

The FBI did not give Morf the ENVELOPE the Atlanta Zodiac letter "HELLO ITS ME" came in.

I just got it.

I had resubmitted my request for 4 Zodiac letters, dropping the request for analysis documents after the "hint" I got from the Justice Department Office of Information Services (and passed on to Morf). The others are the San Jose 1969 letter, the 1978 typed letter and most important the 1971 "In the woods dies April…Monticello" letter.

The envelope is addressed to 1611 W Peachtree ST NE 30308 (or maybe 30808?).

There is a NASA space shuttle sticker in the upper right, it appears to be a special collectors envelope???

Or a special machine cancel? Anyone have any idea how to find out where this machine cancel was used?

See http://spacecovers.com/cgi-bin/cimagedi … m_id=2165A

The stamp is from the Americana Series, the US Flag and the words THE LAND OF THE FREE THE HOME OF THE BRAVE.

The Unabomber (1978 – 1994), the Judge Vance bomber (1989), the Judi Bari bomber (1990) and the "Zodiac Killer" (in 1986 & 1987 letters) all used stamps with an American flag on them. Even more specifically, all of those I just mentioned used stamps from the same US flag over Monuments series. This is supposed to be four seperate criminals – did they all have a convention and decide "while were bombing and killing everybody, let’s at least be patriotic, and let’s all decide to use stamps from the great US flag over Monument series."

They even used some of the exact same stamps. Both The Vance bomber and the Bari bomber used the US flag over Yosemite stamp. Both the Unabomber and the Zodiac Killer used the US flag over the Capitol building stamp.

Now here is where it gets even more interesting …

Out of this 20 stamp AMERICANA collection, we have this Flag stamp used on the Zodiac Atlanta letter, and also the Eagle Shield and Flag stamp used on the May 1978 Possible Zodiac letter, the one sent to the LA TV station that was racist and referenced a death list and the Manson family.

ALSO…another stamp in this set was used by the Unabomber, AMERICAS LIGHT FUELED BY TRUTH AND REASON, RUSH LAMP.

See http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … e-envelope

AMERICANA SERIES

AMERICANA SERIES STAMP USED ON 1981 POSSIBLE ATLANTA ZODIAC LETTER

AMERICANA SERIES STAMP USED ON MAY 1978 POSSIBLE ZODIAC LETTER LOS ANGELES

AMERICANA SERIES STAMP USED ON FOUR UNABOMBER MAILBOMBS 1979 1980 1985 1985

MAY 1978 POSSIBLE ZODIAC LETTER LOS ANGELES ENVELOPE WITH AMERICANA SERIES STAMP EAGLE AND SHIELD

[

Text of May 1978 Possible Zodiac letter and March 1981 Possible Zodiac letter.

Both letters had a stamp from the same 4 stamp sheet from the Americana Series.

Both stamps have the red, white and blue.

Both texts are racist, taunting and mocking.

Both attempt to (mis)lead police into linking Zodiac into other crimes (Manson, Atlanta Child Murders).

Similar shaky handwriting?

Same Zodiac?

Same killer, who is not Zodiac?

Same hoaxer?


Look at the strange "S" in the Atlanta Zodiac envelope.

Now look at the similarly weird "S" on the Riverside poem, it also looks like an upside down "5". Both the Atlanta envelope and the poem have another Zodiac characteristic, a low cross on the "t".


MODERATOR

 
Posted : July 28, 2019 5:19 am
(@daxide)
Posts: 29
Eminent Member
 

How would have TK been able to travel from Montana to Atlanta? It’s extremely far and he was dead poor and I am not sure he could afford bus + lodging expenses?

 
Posted : August 3, 2019 11:07 pm
AK Wilks
(@ak-wilks)
Posts: 1407
Noble Member
 

How would have TK been able to travel from Montana to Atlanta? It’s extremely far and he was dead poor and I am not sure he could afford bus + lodging expenses?

Well, all things considered, I doubt TK went to Atlanta. But as the Unabomber he regularly traveled to San Francisco and Sacramento to mail letters and place bombs. He also traveled to Utah and Chicago for Unabomber activities.

He semi – regularly received money from his parents, worked odd jobs and sometimes would work a regular full time job for several months, and then quit. His regular living expenses were extremely cheap, as he had no rent to pay and mainly subsisted on food that he hunted or grew.

MODERATOR

 
Posted : August 3, 2019 11:57 pm
(@theforeigner)
Posts: 821
Prominent Member
 

AK Wilks:Whymore asked about several of the interesting letters that turned up in the Atlanta Child Murders case. One of them was signed by "Zodiac" and one demanded an end to forced busing, while threatening to kill three more boys in March. Three more boys did die in March.

Where any or all of these letters from the real Atlanta Child Killer, the real Zodiac or were they all from a hoaxer, perhaps the same hoaxer who did other fake Zodiac letters in a roughly similar time period.?

AK-
thanks for letting me know about the addresses. Makes sense now that you say it. I have seen many addresses listed but now that you mention it
they are usually are not current.

Won’t do that again.

Your research about the VANPAC is very compelling– tragic that Roy Moody was executed. Thank you for sharing it here.

I also recall a note postmarked 1981 March 2nd from Cleveland OH mailed to M.B.I. regarding the Atlanta child murders which spoke of forced bussing. This would predate the Dec.1989 VANPAC bombings but point to the fact that racial motivations were on the radar. I recall also
something about the 1981 note having a Chicago connection I think the mailer was included in a Chicago newspaper but I cant remember off hand the exact details?

[AK Wilks: Your memory is correct. See below.]

There was also the zodiac letter from march 8th, 1981 postmarked Atlanta with the peachtree address which places Z in the south potentially.
And Ted’s writings as the Unabomber and after he was convicted have obsessions with race/identity in them— so not surprising he would create
a persona to enact crimes which deal with racist ideology. I realize the VANPAC bombings are also a beard to change his MO- as the Unabomber bombings were attached to ideas of environmentalism and anti-techno rhetoric. The purpose being to narratively and geographically confuse people into not drawing a connection between the two.

[AK Wilks: Yes, the "Hello it’s me" letter. See below.]

Its ironic to say the least that Ted is upheld as a revolutionary thinker by some. The people who uphold him as a radical thinker would be shamed to think that the same person they idolize was also a racist, woman/couple hating psychopath who’s main concerns were not nature and philosophy but killing and the thrill it gave him to do so and get away with it.

AK Wilks: I moved this presentation and discussion of the Atlanta Child Killings letters you mentioned here.

Morf: Somehow, the actual image of this letter didn’t make it over to this thread(or I missed it),so here you go:

AK Wilks: EXCELLENT!!!

That IS the famous never before seen until now "Atlanta Child Murders" – "Zodiac" letter!

It was postmarked "Atlanta, GA March 8, 1981".

I wrote about it before:

I am doing a FOIA request for this letter mentioned in the FBI Atlanta Child Murders file.

It says it is from the Zodiac, and the FBI handwriting analyst could not say it was from Zodiac, but he could NOT exclude it as being from Zodiac.

All we know is it starts:

"Hello its me. Haven’t you…"


Another letter in this time frame, perhaps also from this "Zodiac", was a demand that the Washington Post classified run this ad as a secret message:

DANIEL PLEASE CALL HOME

[2019 AK Wilks: I find this fascinating. Ted Kaczynski used a system of placing ads in the classified section of newspapers, to convey secret messages to a radical environmentalist magazine, using an astrology pretext to convey the "stargazer’s lucky numbers", which were actually numbers that were a code. Even more fascinating, in the summer of 1968 in Michigan, a person with inside knowledge of the Robison murders (husband & wife couple, plus their four children), who police thought could be the actual killer, demanded that in order to get more information, police place an ad in the classified section saying "Dr. Guidini: Your prescription good. However, need additional. Zodius." The 6/25/68 Zodius Killer of the Robisons, like the 12/20/68 Zodiac Killer of Faraday and Jensen, used Winchester .22 Super X ammo fired from a gun with six lands and grooves with a right twist, identified by police as most consistent with and most likely coming from a Sears J.C. Higgins .22 pistol.]

At almost the same time, a message was sent in the same way as the Zodiac Sacramento Cancer and Leo cards – in a prepaid envelope.

This letter was treated as credible, there are 10 pages on it in the files, and 3 kids were killed that March in Atlanta.

Only three cities got this insert for classic model cars that the message came in – Harrisburg PA, Chicago IL and Long Beach FLA.

The FBI did not give Morf the ENVELOPE the Atlanta Zodiac letter "HELLO ITS ME" came in.

I just got it.

I had resubmitted my request for 4 Zodiac letters, dropping the request for analysis documents after the "hint" I got from the Justice Department Office of Information Services (and passed on to Morf). The others are the San Jose 1969 letter, the 1978 typed letter and most important the 1971 "In the woods dies April…Monticello" letter.

The envelope is addressed to 1611 W Peachtree ST NE 30308 (or maybe 30808?).

There is a NASA space shuttle sticker in the upper right, it appears to be a special collectors envelope???

Or a special machine cancel? Anyone have any idea how to find out where this machine cancel was used?

See http://spacecovers.com/cgi-bin/cimagedi … m_id=2165A

The stamp is from the Americana Series, the US Flag and the words THE LAND OF THE FREE THE HOME OF THE BRAVE.

The Unabomber (1978 – 1994), the Judge Vance bomber (1989), the Judi Bari bomber (1990) and the "Zodiac Killer" (in 1986 & 1987 letters) all used stamps with an American flag on them. Even more specifically, all of those I just mentioned used stamps from the same US flag over Monuments series. This is supposed to be four seperate criminals – did they all have a convention and decide "while were bombing and killing everybody, let’s at least be patriotic, and let’s all decide to use stamps from the great US flag over Monument series."

They even used some of the exact same stamps. Both The Vance bomber and the Bari bomber used the US flag over Yosemite stamp. Both the Unabomber and the Zodiac Killer used the US flag over the Capitol building stamp.

Now here is where it gets even more interesting …

Out of this 20 stamp AMERICANA collection, we have this Flag stamp used on the Zodiac Atlanta letter, and also the Eagle Shield and Flag stamp used on the May 1978 Possible Zodiac letter, the one sent to the LA TV station that was racist and referenced a death list and the Manson family.

ALSO…another stamp in this set was used by the Unabomber, AMERICAS LIGHT FUELED BY TRUTH AND REASON, RUSH LAMP.

See http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … e-envelope

AMERICANA SERIES

AMERICANA SERIES STAMP USED ON 1981 POSSIBLE ATLANTA ZODIAC LETTER

AMERICANA SERIES STAMP USED ON MAY 1978 POSSIBLE ZODIAC LETTER LOS ANGELES

AMERICANA SERIES STAMP USED ON FOUR UNABOMBER MAILBOMBS 1979 1980 1985 1985

MAY 1978 POSSIBLE ZODIAC LETTER LOS ANGELES ENVELOPE WITH AMERICANA SERIES STAMP EAGLE AND SHIELD

[

Text of May 1978 Possible Zodiac letter and March 1981 Possible Zodiac letter.

Both letters had a stamp from the same 4 stamp sheet from the Americana Series.

Both stamps have the red, white and blue.

Both texts are racist, taunting and mocking.

Both attempt to (mis)lead police into linking Zodiac into other crimes (Manson, Atlanta Child Murders).

Similar shaky handwriting?

Same Zodiac?

Same killer, who is not Zodiac?

Same hoaxer?


Look at the strange "S" in the Atlanta Zodiac envelope.

Now look at the similarly weird "S" on the Riverside poem, it also looks like an upside down "5". Both the Atlanta envelope and the poem have another Zodiac characteristic, a low cross on the "t".


TheForeigner: Hi, I can’t see any of the images, all of them just show this tiny little gren/white icon of a white cloud and a green hill :|

AK Wilks: nobody else has reported a problem seeing the images. Can you see all the images now? Does anybody else have a problem seeing the images?

Hi, english is not my first language so please bear with me :)

 
Posted : August 4, 2019 1:04 am
(@daxide)
Posts: 29
Eminent Member
 

How would have TK been able to travel from Montana to Atlanta? It’s extremely far and he was dead poor and I am not sure he could afford bus + lodging expenses?

Well, all things considered, I doubt TK went to Atlanta. But as the Unabomber he regularly traveled to San Francisco and Sacramento to mail letters and place bombs. He also traveled to Utah and Chicago for Unabomber activities.

He semi – regularly received money from his parents, worked odd jobs and sometimes would work a regular full time job for several months, and then quit. His regular living expenses were extremely cheap, as he had no rent to pay and mainly subsisted on food that he hunted or grew.

Utah.Chicago and San Francisco are much closer than Atlanta, which is on the opposite side of the country from Montana. I thought he was working odd jobs only up until 1978, then he quit. But maybe I am wrong. Chris Waits reports that he started teaching math to a child from the village, for about a year? And he also mined gold and probably sold some of it. But remember he was not 100% self-sufficient, in an interview he says he still had to buy clothes and some food (oats, milk, etc). Probably very limited expenses.Building bombs and travelling to all those places also required some money..
So it’s not impossible that he went to Atlanta, but difficult on such a tight budget. Besides financial considerations, what makes you think he didn’t go there?

 
Posted : August 4, 2019 11:28 am
(@theforeigner)
Posts: 821
Prominent Member
 

AK Wilks:Whymore asked about several of the interesting letters that turned up in the Atlanta Child Murders case. One of them was signed by "Zodiac" and one demanded an end to forced busing, while threatening to kill three more boys in March. Three more boys did die in March.

Where any or all of these letters from the real Atlanta Child Killer, the real Zodiac or were they all from a hoaxer, perhaps the same hoaxer who did other fake Zodiac letters in a roughly similar time period.?

AK-
thanks for letting me know about the addresses. Makes sense now that you say it. I have seen many addresses listed but now that you mention it
they are usually are not current.

Won’t do that again.

Your research about the VANPAC is very compelling– tragic that Roy Moody was executed. Thank you for sharing it here.

I also recall a note postmarked 1981 March 2nd from Cleveland OH mailed to M.B.I. regarding the Atlanta child murders which spoke of forced bussing. This would predate the Dec.1989 VANPAC bombings but point to the fact that racial motivations were on the radar. I recall also
something about the 1981 note having a Chicago connection I think the mailer was included in a Chicago newspaper but I cant remember off hand the exact details?

[AK Wilks: Your memory is correct. See below.]

There was also the zodiac letter from march 8th, 1981 postmarked Atlanta with the peachtree address which places Z in the south potentially.
And Ted’s writings as the Unabomber and after he was convicted have obsessions with race/identity in them— so not surprising he would create
a persona to enact crimes which deal with racist ideology. I realize the VANPAC bombings are also a beard to change his MO- as the Unabomber bombings were attached to ideas of environmentalism and anti-techno rhetoric. The purpose being to narratively and geographically confuse people into not drawing a connection between the two.

[AK Wilks: Yes, the "Hello it’s me" letter. See below.]

Its ironic to say the least that Ted is upheld as a revolutionary thinker by some. The people who uphold him as a radical thinker would be shamed to think that the same person they idolize was also a racist, woman/couple hating psychopath who’s main concerns were not nature and philosophy but killing and the thrill it gave him to do so and get away with it.

AK Wilks: I moved this presentation and discussion of the Atlanta Child Killings letters you mentioned here.

Morf: Somehow, the actual image of this letter didn’t make it over to this thread(or I missed it),so here you go:

AK Wilks: EXCELLENT!!!

That IS the famous never before seen until now "Atlanta Child Murders" – "Zodiac" letter!

It was postmarked "Atlanta, GA March 8, 1981".

I wrote about it before:

I am doing a FOIA request for this letter mentioned in the FBI Atlanta Child Murders file.

It says it is from the Zodiac, and the FBI handwriting analyst could not say it was from Zodiac, but he could NOT exclude it as being from Zodiac.

All we know is it starts:

"Hello its me. Haven’t you…"


Another letter in this time frame, perhaps also from this "Zodiac", was a demand that the Washington Post classified run this ad as a secret message:

DANIEL PLEASE CALL HOME

[2019 AK Wilks: I find this fascinating. Ted Kaczynski used a system of placing ads in the classified section of newspapers, to convey secret messages to a radical environmentalist magazine, using an astrology pretext to convey the "stargazer’s lucky numbers", which were actually numbers that were a code. Even more fascinating, in the summer of 1968 in Michigan, a person with inside knowledge of the Robison murders (husband & wife couple, plus their four children), who police thought could be the actual killer, demanded that in order to get more information, police place an ad in the classified section saying "Dr. Guidini: Your prescription good. However, need additional. Zodius." The 6/25/68 Zodius Killer of the Robisons, like the 12/20/68 Zodiac Killer of Faraday and Jensen, used Winchester .22 Super X ammo fired from a gun with six lands and grooves with a right twist, identified by police as most consistent with and most likely coming from a Sears J.C. Higgins .22 pistol.]

At almost the same time, a message was sent in the same way as the Zodiac Sacramento Cancer and Leo cards – in a prepaid envelope.

This letter was treated as credible, there are 10 pages on it in the files, and 3 kids were killed that March in Atlanta.

Only three cities got this insert for classic model cars that the message came in – Harrisburg PA, Chicago IL and Long Beach FLA.

The FBI did not give Morf the ENVELOPE the Atlanta Zodiac letter "HELLO ITS ME" came in.

I just got it.

I had resubmitted my request for 4 Zodiac letters, dropping the request for analysis documents after the "hint" I got from the Justice Department Office of Information Services (and passed on to Morf). The others are the San Jose 1969 letter, the 1978 typed letter and most important the 1971 "In the woods dies April…Monticello" letter.

The envelope is addressed to 1611 W Peachtree ST NE 30308 (or maybe 30808?).

There is a NASA space shuttle sticker in the upper right, it appears to be a special collectors envelope???

Or a special machine cancel? Anyone have any idea how to find out where this machine cancel was used?

See http://spacecovers.com/cgi-bin/cimagedi … m_id=2165A

The stamp is from the Americana Series, the US Flag and the words THE LAND OF THE FREE THE HOME OF THE BRAVE.

The Unabomber (1978 – 1994), the Judge Vance bomber (1989), the Judi Bari bomber (1990) and the "Zodiac Killer" (in 1986 & 1987 letters) all used stamps with an American flag on them. Even more specifically, all of those I just mentioned used stamps from the same US flag over Monuments series. This is supposed to be four seperate criminals – did they all have a convention and decide "while were bombing and killing everybody, let’s at least be patriotic, and let’s all decide to use stamps from the great US flag over Monument series."

They even used some of the exact same stamps. Both The Vance bomber and the Bari bomber used the US flag over Yosemite stamp. Both the Unabomber and the Zodiac Killer used the US flag over the Capitol building stamp.

Now here is where it gets even more interesting …

Out of this 20 stamp AMERICANA collection, we have this Flag stamp used on the Zodiac Atlanta letter, and also the Eagle Shield and Flag stamp used on the May 1978 Possible Zodiac letter, the one sent to the LA TV station that was racist and referenced a death list and the Manson family.

ALSO…another stamp in this set was used by the Unabomber, AMERICAS LIGHT FUELED BY TRUTH AND REASON, RUSH LAMP.

See http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … e-envelope

AMERICANA SERIES

AMERICANA SERIES STAMP USED ON 1981 POSSIBLE ATLANTA ZODIAC LETTER

AMERICANA SERIES STAMP USED ON MAY 1978 POSSIBLE ZODIAC LETTER LOS ANGELES

AMERICANA SERIES STAMP USED ON FOUR UNABOMBER MAILBOMBS 1979 1980 1985 1985

MAY 1978 POSSIBLE ZODIAC LETTER LOS ANGELES ENVELOPE WITH AMERICANA SERIES STAMP EAGLE AND SHIELD

[

Text of May 1978 Possible Zodiac letter and March 1981 Possible Zodiac letter.

Both letters had a stamp from the same 4 stamp sheet from the Americana Series.

Both stamps have the red, white and blue.

Both texts are racist, taunting and mocking.

Both attempt to (mis)lead police into linking Zodiac into other crimes (Manson, Atlanta Child Murders).

Similar shaky handwriting?

Same Zodiac?

Same killer, who is not Zodiac?

Same hoaxer?


Look at the strange "S" in the Atlanta Zodiac envelope.

Now look at the similarly weird "S" on the Riverside poem, it also looks like an upside down "5". Both the Atlanta envelope and the poem have another Zodiac characteristic, a low cross on the "t".


TheForeigner: Hi, I can’t see any of the images, all of them just show this tiny little gren/white icon of a white cloud and a green hill :|

AK Wilks: nobody else has reported a problem seeing the images. Can you see all the images now? Does anybody else have a problem seeing the images?

Hi AK Wilks, no still can’t see any of the images. I can se images on other threads so I assume it has not to do with my computer settings etc..

Hi, english is not my first language so please bear with me :)

 
Posted : August 4, 2019 4:13 pm
doranchak
(@doranchak)
Posts: 2614
Member Admin
 

What happens when you click this link?

If it doesn’t work, I’m wondering if your computer or internet service provider is blocking access to images on servimg.com.

http://zodiackillerciphers.com

 
Posted : August 4, 2019 8:29 pm
(@holmes201)
Posts: 553
Honorable Member
 

The 21A in the corner of the envelope is the Beretta model 21A Bobcat chambered in .22LR or .25ACP. There was some other involvement with Beretta 950 Jetfire .25ACP in these killings I believe. Beretta makes one hell of a nice gun.

 
Posted : August 4, 2019 8:55 pm
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