AK WILKS: Yes if Zodiac was alluding to prior murders there is the quite amazing circumstances surrounding the 6/25/68 murders of the Robison family in Blisswood, Michigan.

In that case we have messages to the newspaper from ZODIUS, a mysterious San Francisco man named ROEBERT who underlines the EBE in his name, and murders in EMMET County.

In the 12/20/68 murders of Faraday and Jensen, followed by the San Francisco area murders of Darlene Ferrin, Celia Shepard and Paul Stine, we have messages to the newspaper from ZODIAC, and the last line in a coded message that reads:

EBEORIETEMETHHPITI

Which contains EBE, and ROEBE, and EMET.

Thanks very much Trav for taking a look at this and giving your thoughts.

"Anthropolgy Dept" seems right and Jane Britton was in fact a student in that department.

"Solomon" seems right I thought maybe the next word was "Islands", you suggest "Forde", which looks closer I admit, but what does it mean?

You suggest "Everyone Love" which is the best guess so far, and I never "saw" it until you suggested it! Unless the last part is not "Love" but something like 2056. Or 205G.

The last line looks like symbols to me, maybe code?

= – <> K ;

The prior Boston murder of Beverly Samans had coded messages at the scene, including codes done in musical notes, as Harvard student Ted Kaczynski did.

VERY INTERESTING THING TRAV MENTIONED TO ME IN A PM: There are numerous reports that Beverly Samans, killed 5/7/63 in Boston, was stabbed 18 times in a BULLSEYE pattern. Both Trav and I wondered if this could mean a patern like the Zodiac symbol. I later found the patter described as "circular" meaning a circle within a circle centered on a breast. So perhaps more like a dartboard pattern than the Zodiac + over a circle.

Yet both the Zodiac symbol and the Samans stab wound pattern have circles and both are used to designate a target.

I now don’t believe Ted had anything to do with the Percy case.

I’ve been reading Sympathy Vote by Glen Wall. http://www.amazon.com/Sympathy-Vote-Rei … B00GDIX2JY He makes a very convincing case pointing to a local suspect, William Thoresen , III who, it seems, was a complete nutjob growing up, breaking into neighbour’s houses many times. In brief, and copied from Websleuths:

In 1965, WT’s brother suffered a mysterious death which remains unsolved.
WT’s wife is quoted as saying WT admitted to her that he killed his brother.
WT, himself, died in 1970 of gunshot wounds inflicted by his wife. A jury declared the shooting self-defense
A bayonet is believed to be the weapon that killed VP. ("A discarded one was found in Lake Michigan soon after.")
WT was arrested with 70+ tons of military weapons (including bayonets) six months after VP’s murder.
VP’s mother described the man she saw leaning over VP’s bed as a dark-haired Caucasian, which fits WT.
His sources include WT’s neighbors and classmates.
He wasn’t allowed access to the full police file, and firmly believes LE is "sitting on information".
"…Glenn Wall hopes that Silent Vote is a catalyst for solving the horrible crime."
"’From what I’ve heard, readers who are into cold cases are buying the book’, he said."

There is just too much there that points to this man who, surprisingly, hadn’t surfaced in any previous mention of the Percy killing. The book is one of the better of its genre, well written and researched.

Already I don’t think Ted or Z had anything to do with the Robison murders, or that of Betsy Aardsma. Which leads me to the Bricca case.

I don’t believe for one moment that the local suspect named in Queen City Gothic (about whom the author was very sure) is guilty; it just doesn’t add up for me. But I also don’t believe that the killers of Percy and Bricca are one and the same. If it was Ted (and he didn’t commit Percy), why start in Cincinnati? He would have had to thoroughly research his victims – or know them somehow – and made lengthy plans beforehand, but that doesn’t make sense, either, so I don’t believe Ted is responsible; the evidence just isn’t there. Perhaps one day a new suspect will emerge or there will be a death-bed type confession that finally throws light on the Bricca case.

The Sims case is in the same category as Bricca – horrific and unsolved with no real suspect.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 … 60,5846339

Thanks for posting that information. I will order and read this book about Percy and the possibility of Thoresen as a suspect. He is definitely worth looking into. You outline the main reasons for looking into him. He was a gun nut with a violent temper. There are problems with him as a suspect as well.

Both Sharon Bubes and Mrs. Percy described the intruder as 5’8", 160 pounds and 17 years old. Thoresen would have been 28 years old in 1966. To me that is a major problem, as they describe the age and build of a teenager, not a man. And Thoresen does look somewhat like the skecth/not like the sketch, but very different facial structure, while Ted K matches the build and looks so much like the sketch its eerie.

Thoresen was a gun nut. He had hundreds of rifles, machine guns, cannons. He also had some daggers and bayonets. But I would have picked him as more likely to kill with a gun than a blade.

He did have a history of violence, mostly with people in random encounters who irritated him, or towards family members. No history of breaking into houses to do violence on a stranger.

There is no evidence he killed his brother or anyone, just the statement of his wife that he confessed to killing his brother, which is self serving, as she shot Thoresen and pleaded self defense.

No evidence he knew Percy or had a motive. Ted K in the weeks before her death said he was "born again" and now ready to really kill everyone he hated, including "businessmen" and "college students". Mr. Percy was a succesful businessman of a tech company, running for senate, and Valerie was a college student.

He had a house in California at the time, while his parents lived not far from the Percy estate. Was he documented as in Illinois when it happened?

I agree with you about the local suspect in the Bricca case. I don’t think he did it.

What puzzles me is that in a ONE MONTH PERIOD you have this incredible explosion of violence – home invasion of Percy estate Valerie killed, one week later Bricca family killed, one month later Sims family killed, one week later Cheri Bates killed.

Valerie Percy Illinois 9/18/66, Bricca Family Ohio 9/27/66, Robison Family Michigan 6/25/68. Murder of Dr. Sims, one of the nation’s top computer experts, and his family, in Florida on 10/22/66, probable Zodiac victim Cheri Jo Bates in California on 10/30/66, Betsy Aardsma in Pennsylvania on 11/28/69, Joan Webster 11/28/81.

There are major MO and other links between the cases.

Following up on evidence I gave them, the Ohio police seem to have found some kind of link between the Bricca case and Zodiac.

I think Zodiac in general and Ted K in particular are good suspects for some or all of these cases. I am open to other suspects, but in all these cases, until Thoresen emerged now, there were not really any good suspects.

I have tons of stuff on William Thoresen and do think he is a viable suspect in Percy’s murder. Thanks for the heads up on the book by Glenn Wall, Dreamnine. I, too, will be getting it.

AK, what makes it believable that Thoresen killed his brother is that the hitman he hired to do the job was killed by Thoresen soon after. I will go through my stuff and lay out my thoughts a bit better.

If you can find the book "It Gave Everybody Something to Do" by Louise Thoresen with EM Nathanson, get it. William’s timeline can be pretty well determined from the info in the book.

Thoresen is an interesting character – It’s such a good book, Seagull, I really do recommend it.

It is known that Chicago investigators travelled to Kenilworth in 1957 to question him about the dismemberment murder of Judith Mae Anderson – he had apparently been overheard discussing committing murders that were similar in nature.

In 1966 he was still visiting Kenilworh frequently, to try and extort money from his parents, and had formulated a murder plan to get rid of them which fell through at the last moment.

Lorraine Percy saw the killer ‘as he was bending over the bed’ and only really saw a dark outline. Thoresen could easily have been mistaken for being younger and smaller than he was.

8 months before his brother Richard’s murder in September 1965, (whom he admitted killing to his wife) there was a home invasion at the home of a family called Wacker in Lake Forest/Lake Bluff. The method of gaining entry, was said by LE to be exactly the same as Percy – unusual and identical methods of cutting and smashing glass panes. And LE believes that the Pirruccello break-in, 24 hours before Percy, was the same man.

The book also talks about the moccasin – how common were moccasins in Illinois in 1966? Not at all, apparently, but much more common in the burgeoning Haight-Ashbury scene in San Francisco. Thoresen was known to travel to this area and bring people (along with drugs and weapons) back to his house. He was a millionaire’s son and he generally bought what he wanted, so it’s reasonable to speculate that he bought a pair of mocassins a year before the Percy murder and long before they became fashionable outside the Bay Area.

There is just nothing to tie Ted to Percy/Bricca/Robison/Sims/Aardsma Nothing at all, not one iota. Apart from any other consideration, I don’t believe either Ted or Z would kill a child close up as in Bricca/Sims. I did think at one stage that Ted could have been a viable suspect, but Percy, Robison and Aardsma have been debunked – at least to me – going by what I have read.

That leaves Sims and Bricca in these Midwest/South murders, and there really are few clues in either.

The Robison killer called himself Zodius and there are three pages of evidence here. The police consider Zodiac and/or Ted K a suspect in the Percy and Bricca cases. A witness picked out a picture of Ted Kaczynski as being the person she saw at the Penn State library acting strange the day before Aardsma was killed. And Ted wore moccasins.

Every thing the wife says imo is suspect, as being totally biased and self interested. What hard evidence is there?

I will read the book.

Maybe we should start a non-zodiac crime thread on Percy and Thoresen. He is interesting.

Both Sharon Bubes and Mrs. Percy described the intruder as 5’8", 160 pounds and 17 years old. Thoresen would have been 28 years old in 1966. To me that is a major problem, as they describe the age and build of a teenager, not a man. And Thoresen does look somewhat like the skecth/not like the sketch, but very different facial structure, while Ted K matches the build and looks so much like the sketch its eerie.

Well, I don’t really buy Mrs. Percy’s description of the assailant – it was dark, she saw a dim outline then had a torch shone into her face. Mrs Percy did say that he was approximately five feet seven inches tall, between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, weighed approximately 160 pounds and had dark hair. She viewed the killer as he was bending over the bed. But her description is likely flawed.

The Bubes attack I don’t believe is related at all, except that LE showed Mrs Percy a sketch, there isn’t really anything to connect it with Percy, unlike the Wacker and Pirruccello cases where the method of entry is almost identical, down to the blue tool marks left on the screen at both Pirruccello and Percy.

There is no evidence on this thread about Ted and these killings; it’s just speculation, which is fine if you think he did it and want to connect dots. But it unravellled quickly for me after reading the Aardsma book,looking into the Robisons more, and now the Percy book.

Ted could have done them all but so could anyone else who was around at the time.

True.

Police connected the Bubes case to Percy and issued that sketch. Bubes said her attacker looked 17 years old. Both Bubes and Percy were college age females attacked with a hammer in their bedrooms. I agree with police that they are likely linked. They lived just 3 miles apart.

I will have to get the book and study these other attacks and Thoresen. He was dangerous – a millionaire psychopath gun nut. Had the money to buy his way out of trouble.

Regarding Thoresen, here is a clip from last night’s local Chicago news: http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sectio … id=9405395

Thanks. I am going to order the book and see what else it says about Thoresen. The problem so far is the same as it is with Ted and everyone else – no actual evidence to tie any one of them to the Percy murder. Both Thoresen and Kaczynski are in the same boat – odd guys with a history of violence who used to live near the Percy neighborhood.

For those interested in discussing Thoresen I have started a new thread about him. Dreamnine I would appreciate you putting in the information about the new book on Thoresen in the thread, thanks!

I kicked off the thread with a detective magazine story about him.

viewtopic.php?f=99&t=1358&p=14263#p14263

Thanks, I’ve seen that new thread.

I’m now considering the Bricca/Sims killings in a different light. For one, there was a sexual component that really doesn’t fit either Ted or Z, and I now don’t believe the Bricca case is related to Percy despite being 9 days later and the coincidence of Mrs Bricca knowing both Valerie Percy (or at least knowing of her), and knowing the flight attendant murdered in Seattle (which possibly could still be linked to Ted Bundy).

Both the Bricca and Sims killings were complete overkill and with a real paucity of clues in either – they still could be related.

The thing that amazes me is that there was such incredible brutal violence in such a short concentrated period of time.

September 19, 1966 to October 30, 1966.

40 days. Two families wiped off the face of the Earth. And two college girls killed. No known enemies, no good suspects, safe areas.

Percy Bricca Sims Bates.

In all four cases the father works in tech/engineer/computers or weapons.

The first three are home invasions. Bricca and Sims were bound in the same way. Percy and Bricca knew each other. Based on known evidence Ted is in the midwest when the first three happen but in California when Bates is killed. The Zodiac is officially a suspect in Bates and now also Bricca.

All still unsolved.

For those interested in tthe Zodiac Killer case and these unsolved midwest cases like Valerie Percy and Robison Family, I can highly reccomend the very good book by William Rasmussen called Corroborating Evidence III. He has a IV coming out but I have not read that one yet. Here is my review of III:

The focus of this book is on the Black Dahlia case. Cutting through the recent shoddy and exploitative works on the subject, the author makes very interesting connections between the Dahlia case and similar murders in the midwest [Cleveland Torso Murders and a Chicago case]. He also presents compelling evidence on a suspect, though I would say he falls short of "proving" this person to be the Dahlia killer. But it is the most interesting and convincing case I have yet read. {The suspect is the same one in the excellent book SEVERED by John Gilmore}.

My main interest is in the Zodiac case. The author presents some amazing new evidence! Like the Dahlia case, the Zodiac case has become filled with hucksters and hoaxsters. Apparently half the population of California think their stepdad or father was the Zodiac and/or Black Dahlia Killer.

Rasmussen presents NEW evidence about the Robison Family murder case in Michigan on 6/25/68. He shows that a tipster sent in knowledge of the crime using the name ZODIUS. This shares 4 letters with ZODIAC. It appears they BOTH come from the Latin word ZODIACUS. He also shows the police report which indicates the Robison Family was killed with a .22 weapon with six lands and grooves with a right twist. This is a MATCH to the weapon used in the possible Zodiac crime of the murder of Domingos and Edwards at Santa Barbara 1963 and a MATCH to the confirmed Zodiac crime of 12/20/68 the murder of Jensen and Faraday. Also both ZODIAC/ZODIUS sent letters to newspapers asking their words to appear in the paper.

Rasmussen also shows evidence suggesting a possible Zodiac link to the Valerie Percy murder of 9/18/66. Just one month later, another college girl would be brutally killed, Cheri Jo Bates, who was probably (almost certainly) a Zodiac victim.

Other cases and possible links are explored as well.

This is an excellently researcher and well written work. I would say any person interested in either the Dahlia case or the Zodiac case will enjoy reading this book.