I just saw this topic last night. I didn’t remember this mk ultra to much. I had heard long ago that the government gave acid to people. LSD was legal until 1966 and was just another high. Back in the 1970’s the kids used to sell it like hot cakes. Half the kids in my high school were on that stuff during class. There was so much acid in our town that it was easier to get then a six pack of beer. This one kid used to take huge doses of acid almost every day. He sold LSD, so he had plenty. What the kids did in my school was take these drugs and go to our beautiful new school library, and play chess. I don’t remember to many kids skipping school, because it was a party all day. You could drink at school too, if you wished. You had to go into the woods and do that though. There would be hundreds of kids on the front lawn of the high school every single morning smoking pot and dealing drugs to anybody who cared to purchase them. Some people started filming these activities a few times, but the kids got rocks and hit the guys filming the scene. Then they brought some goofy security guard who started walking into the crowds. About 10 guys picked him up, and threw him in the frog pond. That was the end of that nonsense. So the idea of the CIA using this chemical is perfectly fine. Remember, it was a legal substance when they used it. No crime committed there, I’m afraid. In fact the guy who invented it Switzerland, after he got used to this substance, enjoyed it tremendously.

Holmes – As far as the use of LSD by the CIA being "fine" and "no crime", go to page one of this thread and read the thread in its entirety. Certainly what they did to Ted and others was possibly illegal and definitely unethical. They also introduced LSD and other drugs to people without their knowledge or consent. And the evidence shows that one person they did this to, Frank Olson, later jumped or more likely was pushed out of a hotel window to his death.

Yes LSD inventor Dr Hofmann was a genius and LSD contributed to the creativity of many people, from Jimi Hendrix to Paul McCartney, from Dr Francis Crick to Steve Jobs. And it holds great potential for controlled uses in therapy. But it should never be given to people without their knowledge.

…But it should never be given to people without their knowledge.

Never. I agree. That was just cruel.
I am pretty conservative and don’t have a problem with government intel programs and most secrecy for the sake of national security, but giving LSD to unknowing subjects is wrong.

Holmes – As far as the use of LSD by the CIA being "fine" and "no crime", go to page one of this thread and read the thread in its entirety. Certainly what they did to Ted and others was possibly illegal and definitely unethical. They also introduced LSD and other drugs to people without their knowledge or consent. And the evidence shows that one person they did this to, Frank Olson, later jumped or more likely was pushed out of a hotel window to his death.

Yes LSD inventor Dr Hofmann was a genius and LSD contributed to the creativity of many people, from Jimi Hendrix to Paul McCartney, from Dr Francis Crick to Steve Jobs. And it holds great potential for controlled uses in therapy. But it should never be given to people without their knowledge.

I thought these people volunteered for this study, but you’re right about giving it to people who aren’t familiar with this chemical. As I mentioned, LSD was so common and readily available when we were kids that I just never thought it was that big of a deal. What I’m truly puzzled with, is why these individuals who were drugged by these people, didn’t go back down to those brothels to take a piece of the guys who drugged them. How could you sleep at night knowing that somebody did this to you, and you didn’t take revenge against them.

Holmes – As far as the use of LSD by the CIA being "fine" and "no crime", go to page one of this thread and read the thread in its entirety. Certainly what they did to Ted and others was possibly illegal and definitely unethical. They also introduced LSD and other drugs to people without their knowledge or consent. And the evidence shows that one person they did this to, Frank Olson, later jumped or more likely was pushed out of a hotel window to his death.

Yes LSD inventor Dr Hofmann was a genius and LSD contributed to the creativity of many people, from Jimi Hendrix to Paul McCartney, from Dr Francis Crick to Steve Jobs. And it holds great potential for controlled uses in therapy. But it should never be given to people without their knowledge.

I thought these people volunteered for this study, but you’re right about giving it to people who aren’t familiar with this chemical. As I mentioned, LSD was so common and readily available when we were kids that I just never thought it was that big of a deal. What I’m truly puzzled with, is why these individuals who were drugged by these people, didn’t go back down to those brothels to take a piece of the guys who drugged them. How could you sleep at night knowing that somebody did this to you, and you didn’t take revenge against them.

Take revenge against who? Few were knowing volunteers. Some of the people these things were done to were clients at a brothel, people participating in an illegal activity. Some were convicts or medical patients Some were military people following orders. They did not know they were being given drugs. They would not know who to take revenge against. Even if they did, how do you take revenge against the CIA, BNDD, the federal government?

There was one person who was very angry about unexpectedly being given LSD and threatened to go to the press. That was Frank Olson. He jumped, fell or most likely was pushed to his death from a hotel window.

The story released to the family and the public was that Olson was given LSD without his knowledge and this led to him jumping or falling from a hotel window. But he had been given the LSD a week prior. Olson was upset about MK-ULTRA experiments which violated the Nuremberg protocols and US law. There was fear he was going to go to the press. This is back in November 1953. He checked into the hotel room with a CIA officer. He went through the window to his death. Many years later the hotel front desk operator told of a call from the room were the person said "Well, he’s gone" and the person at the other end responded "That’s too bad." IMO if someone unexpectedly and shockingly jumped or fell from a hotel room that is not the comment you would expect, "Well he’s gone". More like the comment after doing a regrettable job.

We will never know for sure what happened. Most of the documents have been destroyed. Frank Olson’s son has a website and is still trying to get the truth. http://www.frankolsonproject.org/

I recently interviewed MLK conspirator and CIA/mob hitman Jules Ron “Ricco” Kimble for my upcoming book. The first thing out of his mouth was that he could not discuss McGill University and their mind control project. I had no idea what he was talking about until I did research yesterday and discovered that McGill was a conducting CIA mind control experiments called MK-ULTRA.
Just wanted to share.
https://twitter.com/MLKauthor

I recently interviewed MLK conspirator and CIA/mob hitman Jules Ron “Ricco” Kimble for my upcoming book. The first thing out of his mouth was that he could not discuss McGill University and their mind control project. I had no idea what he was talking about until I did research yesterday and discovered that McGill was a conducting CIA mind control experiments called MK-ULTRA.
Just wanted to share.
https://twitter.com/MLKauthor

Pretty cool stuff you got going on! What does McGill University have to do with anything though? Isn’t that in Canada? There were several locations where these experiments were taking place. There were at least a few places where this was happening in the bay area in the 60’s and 70’s (and probably the 50’s).

Check this out….
http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/arti … 223346.php

I am a chemist, and a psychedelic researcher, I also happen to be an MKULTRA "expert" of sorts…

Intersting thread, I have only had the time to skim through, but after a good read I am sure there should be much to talk about.

LSD was used in the experiments. LSD was perfectly legal in the US until 1966-67. It is made from mold on rye. There is a lot of good acid out there now.

TK likely developed schizophrenia as a reaction to LSD

Dr. Murray worked on Whitey Bulger the Boston mobster. He gave him LSD while at Concord prison. Then they reduced the sentence because of it. Whitey Bulger murdered well over 20 people that he admitted to.

This new article contains some interesting facts on the CIA history of mind control and drug experiments. Many done on prisoners, without the prisoners full knowledge of the facts and risks, without informed consent. The CIA men in this program were responsible for the death of fellow agent Frank Olson, either by recklessly giving him drugs without his knowledge and consent and/or by deliberate intentional murder when he threatened to expose the program in the press.

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/09/75898964 … r-in-chief

This article mentions the experiments done on then prisoner Whitey Bulger. He was given LSD every single day for an extended period of time. Bulger described the experience as "horrific" and that it made him think he was going insane.

Interestingly, when Bulger later found out who was responsible for doing this to him, he vowed to kill the CIA personnel involved.

Very interesting when you consider that Ted Kaczynski was a victim of this program, in light of two facts.

One was a possible Zodiac threat card of "You Are Next" sent to a psychiatrist who worked with men in this program and wrote an article endorsing harsh government treatment of persons for the benefit of the military – industrial complex.

viewtopic.php?f=102&t=2233

Second was the abduction and murder of Harvard graduate student Joan Webster on 11/28/81, the 12th anniversary of the murder of Penn State student Betsy Aardsma. Both of Joan Webster’s parents worked in the past for the CIA in a high ranking capacity, and her father was at the time of her murder a Vice President for defense industries for IT&T. In the aftermath of the Watergate investigation, IT&T was revealed to linked to the CIA in many operations, including the overthrow of the President of Chile, Salvador Allende. This was widely documented in the press. Webster was last seen getting into a car driven by a bearded man.

The killer in a series of unsolved murders said that the best way to get revenge on someone is to take away what is most precious to them, even more precious than their own life: The life of their children.

Ted Kaczynski was seen in the Penn State library on 11/27/69, acting "suspiciously", i.e., not reading books, but observing and following women.

Betsy Aardsma Penn State Student …. Joan Webster Harvard Student
Killed in the Library 11-28-69 ……………Abducted and Killed 11-28-81

what’s the source for tedk in that library on that date?

Yes, as I thought. This man is a rabid killing machine. I had alluded to the idea before of Ted’s affinity for hanging out and most likely stocking victims in public libraries. Of course this is the type woman that Ted would be interested. Because he is an oddball I’m sure his advances were rebuffed by members of the opposite sex much more often than not. After these girls shoot down his plans of love and happiness he simply goes out and murders them.

They have a bus from Cambridge Mass. near Harvard U., right over to Lincoln Mass., where Joan Risch disappeared in October 1961. Takes 24 minutes. When a crime like this happens criminals such as Ted Kaczynski who was 24 minutes away from this scene of a disappearance must be looked at as a viable suspect. It has to be that way because we know this serial killer hung around libraries just like Joan Ricsh did.