A valid solution to a code is not a matter of opinion.

bmichelle, please refer to the rules:

http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2195

There’s a big difference between giving an opinion and being openly hostile and disrespectful towards staff and other members. The former is welcome. The latter is discouraged.

Also, it is common practice on online forums to lock threads that turn into "flame wars". They are pointless and take away from fruitful discussion.

If anyone is afraid to post, they shouldn’t post. Criticism comes with the territory and sometimes it is a necessity.

Paul_Averly
"A valid solution to a code is not a matter of opinion."

I like that–you should use it as your quote. It makes sense in regards to how some people think ciphers should be solved.

doranchak

I get it now– why it was locked but it just struck me as a little unjust that you locked it down after throwing in one last bit of sarcasm. And I do not think the disrespect/criticism was just coming from one source. But that is okay. I am over it but I did enjoy the topic. I do not feel anyone wasted their time and thought Glurk’s example was very helpful. I actually learned a lot.

Tahoe

I agree.

There is a much easier solution to locking threads. In regards to Sam’s solution, it is fair to say some people are not going to agree to proposed theories. Therefore you politely disagree with the proposed idea, using a logical response and draw a line under it. It is simply no use, if you sincerely believe somebody is a troll, to keep feeding the fire by constantly replying and exacerbating the situation. In this instance I don’t believe anybody is trolling, it is just somebody passionate about an idea. Whether somebody is right or wrong is neither here nor there, if you disagree with an idea you state it succinctly and move on.
Continually rebutting an idea over and over again…well we know where it leads, as this thread has demonstrated. It is actually far easier not to reply to a thread that carries no substance and then for sure the threads author probably understands their idea carries no weight in anyone’s mind. But to continually rebut somebodies idea over and over again, while their is nothing wrong with the rebuttal, has inevitable consequences as this thread has demonstrated.

Perhaps I reacted emotionally. But I have a low tolerance for people parading nonsense around like it’s some kind of truth.

Immunity from objective criticism and review is why there are so many baloney-filled Zodiac books and breathless news reports of the latest cipher solutions.

Peer review isn’t censorship. It’s how ideas are tested. Bad ideas fail the tests and get thrown away, until a good one survives.

A valid solution to a code is not a matter of opinion.

Paul_Averly’s post hits the nail squarely on the head. Cipher stuff is fundamentally different from opinions and theories. There is methodology, system, and rigor to it. Things can be proven and disproven.

What Sam was presenting was a textbook-worthy example of a forced solution. That’s not my "opinion." That’s a cold, hard, indisputable fact. And when we tried to show him that, he comes back with some nonsense about his "own truth." That’s just NOT how it works. Period.

This stuff can’t be allowed to just go on uncontested.

-glurk

In the case with Sam, his theory was initially met with constructive criticism by the folks here at the forum who have an enormous amount of experience with codes. Sam disregarded their expertise and carried on like a petulant three year old. When reading posts it is hard to determine the writers mood so that sometimes what was meant to be an even tempered reply sounds like a nasty criticism to the person on the receiving end. No one likes their ideas to be dismissed and few people can actually step back and look at their work constructively from the point of view of the person offering the critique.

The code people get tired of saying the same things over and over, the person who thinks he has solved one of the most vexing codes in recent history does not want to be proven wrong so the situation is a disaster from the beginning.

You will find these sites very clique-y and full of bullies. Either give them some of their own back or ignore them. Ignoring is probably better. Everyone knows who they are–many of them are moderators, actually, and they bully you with their 4 minutes of power every chance they get. It’s the only place they probably are able to exert any. Morf started this site because of the bullying that went on at Tom’s site (by Tom, mostly, but his minions always sucked up in unison). I’ve noticed that as Tom’s site has died–because everyone left it in droves to join Morf’s site, ironically with its humble beginnings as a safe haven from bully Moderators–a number of those same bully moderators now bully in here.

Those who have not learned from history are doomed to repeat it.

P.S. It is actually more insightful to see how many views a post or a thread has than to how many have posted replies to it. There are people who wish to capitalize on the solution to these murders, and to receive glory as the one who solve the Zodiac murders is the mother lode–that is their main objective. So, if they are not the ones who had the insight which leads to the solution of these murders, then they are not about to legitimize those insights with posts. But you can bet your behind that they are interested.

In other words, just post whatever insights you have. Others on the site such as myself welcome it!

The number of crossover Mods between Morf’s and Tom’s is exactly 2, myself and Tahoe. And Tahoe did not become a Mod at Tom’s until about a year ago, long after she had been a Mod here. Not bullying you, just stating a fact.

Yah…doesn’t take a lot of skill to figure that one out. Besides, I spoke my mind before I was a moderator.

If people actually knew Seagull and I, they would know we are very nice people who have to deal with a lot of crazy sob’s! Shall we write a little list of the things we have had to deal with? Aside from the stuff you see publicly? All it takes is speaking your mind and disagreeing with ONE of them. And this becomes more prevalent the more you become known.

Now, try moderating the stuff you KNOW is garbage. These message boards aren’t a free-for-all for people to come here and just post random falsities–hence the need for moderators. The moderators discuss posts prior to deletion, and…there are very few who were ever banned. There are HUNDREDS of posts I’m not in agreement with where I do not jump in.

If you feel someone is being "bullied", why not pop one of us a private message? You might be surprised at what we know about some of these people. One guy got banned and was "bullied" because he was staking claims off of one of my personal discoveries where I had used MY finding of something (that was different than anything on the internet). He used MY example to say writing on it was something his POI had told him about and now goes around posting videos, etc. It is ridiculous and deplorable, at best!! So…when someone is taking heat…remember, there is probably valid justification for it. It is DISGUSTING the amount of people who do this. The families deserve better than some blatant lying bs being spread and yes, glorified on the internet!! And it continues…

(and no, it was not Deplorable at Best who was the piece of garbage doing this)

So, for that reason, you bet your booty there will be censorship and confrontation.

These message boards aren’t a free-for-all for people to come here and just post random falsities–hence the need for moderators.

I appreciate the mods and respect the fact this is not a public (anything goes) website. To me it’s the concept of ownership. This site is owned and run by people who get to make the rules. If someone like me doesn’t like the rules, too bad, go away. Nobody is entitled to visit/participate in a privately-owned website. Simple as that. The word "censorship" doesn’t even apply – if I don’t let someone put a sign in my front yard that isn’t censorship either.

I might add that in order for the site to remain highly interesting, fun, and relevant, the (in my opinion) excellent mods serve an essential service.

So, thanks.

Yes I agree that "censorship" was the wrong choice of wording.

I also think the moderators do a great job.

I enjoy this site and do not want to leave

I tried to express something in a "topic" because this board does offer differing points of view.

I also understand that it is by the grace of Morf (and God, of course!) that I’m on this site. I’m not a fool.

In regards to walking tall and carrying a big stick, Morf, Zamantha and Sandy Betts are also Mods, but they are always gracious and lovely. They speak their minds and are unafraid to differ in opinion, but they aren’t arrogant. Never arrogant.

And Tahoe, I think your "Wheel of Death" Bolle find was amazing, and everyone knows ‘you da man’ with respect to that find. I have personal reasons for admiring you for it. Haha. Also, I’m pretty certain I’d be a fan were I to meet you in person. I suspect I would surprise you, as well.

And as much as I think Tom is a mean bully who is abusive in his little power scope (I shudder to think were it greater), I would never discount the contributions he has made to the Zodiac case, and to keeping it alive. In fact, I suspect that if he’d been less of a ******, he might have had a hand in solving it already.