I manually, using a computer, LOL, took the cipher and left out the spaces and capitals, and replaced the numbers with letters as explained, and came up with the French text. I don’t know where the word breaks should be, as I don’t speak French:

(I also see that some "U" should be "V" and vice-versa)

michelflorenciouanlangrendictqvonfairadeuxuisesdecuiuredesemblablecipacitee
nformedecelindreaiantpimesmeestoillereuientaumesmemeridonpartitilnefaultque
prendrecestedifferenceparlesestoillesdufirmamentautentantquelapremiereuastr
emplideleaudelamnneraouuertnrealasecondelaqnellefiniraaussycandladiteestoil
leseuelqueliegedeqnoydieunleriapremiereautempsdvdepirtementenmarkantquelque
estoillecognuesoitaumeridiencetteuaseserauuidecintegrezoneltenlongitudedume
ridiendouaqnelleonfairiunpectuisconsormquonueultfairelefileeaquatiquepouruu
yderlempscantundesditesuiseecessedccoulersedenestresurpcinsonfairaflotterun
uergetteauditcelindresupporteparuaiantnoteonlaisseracoududeparteestediligen
cefairatoniournellementdurantlesusditevoiagedesirantdoncquesdescauoircombie
ndedarenbasunepointeconiqueanmilieudeienterrestreasauoirsielleseuvidcenuint
eetquatreheurescelestesetaumesmeinssditesuasesetlesaiantssoitvuideeeafinder
oncognoisteraparlesestoillesencombiendetempsellesseuuidenteeqraaumesmemerid
iendulieouue

I ran this through some online translators and it seems to read as described. But I wish I knew where to put the word breaks…

replaced the numbers with letters as explained

Could you or anybody else please explain according to which pattern (!) the letters/numbers have been replaced? As without pattern any replacement would work to find some text? Thank you.

QT

It’s REALLY simple.

1) Take the transcribed ciphertext.
2) Remove all spaces.
3) Remove all capital letters.
4) Replace 1=a, 2=b, 3=c. 4=d, etc….
5) Read every third character. When you "wrap around" start at the second character, etc.

That’s pretty much it.

* The ONLY replacements are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 are replaced with a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i

It would be nice if we had somebody on the site that spoke French and Would interpret it . And thumbs up Jarvle !

It might sound HARSH but AS EXPECTED:

No solution at all.

Referring to Klaus Schmeh:

"dass sinnvolle Wörter entstanden, wenn man nur jeden dritten Buchstaben las:"
(that valid words had showed up when reading every third letter)

m93h5lflorenc9ouanlangr5nd9ctqvonfa9ra4euxui?e?d5cu9ure4e?5mblabl5cipa3
9teenformedecel9ndr5a9antpim5?mee?to9ller5u9entaume?mem5r9donpart9t9lne
6aultqueprendre3e?ted9fferenceparle?e?to9lle?duf9rmamentautentantquelap
rem95reua?trempl9d5leau4elamnneraouuertnreala?econ4elaqnellef9n9raau??y
candlad9t5e?to9lle?euelqu5l95gedeqnoy49eunleriaprem9er5autemp?dvdepirte
m5ntenmarkantquelquee?to9ll5co7nue?o9taumer9d9enc5tt5ua?5?erauu9d5cinte
grezon5ltenlong9tudedumer9d9endouaqnell5onfa9riunpectu9?con?ormquonueul
tfa9r5lef9le5aquat9quepouruuyderlemp?3antunde?d9te?ui?eece??edc3ouler?5
4ene?tre?urpc9nsonfa9raflotterunuer7etteau49tcel9ndre?upporteparua9antn
oteonla9?seracoududeparte5sted9l9gencefa9raton9ournellement4urantle?u?d
itevoiagede?9rantdon3que?descauo9rcom29ende4arenba?unepo9ntecon9queanm9
l9eude95nterre?trea?auo9r?9elle?euv9dcenu9nt5etquatr5h5ure?cele?te?etau
me?me9n??d9te?ua?esetle?a9ant??o9tvu9de5eaf9nd5ronco7no9?teraparle?e?to
9lle?en3omb9endetemp?elle??euu9denteeqraaume?memer9d9endul9eouue

Besides A FEW FRENCH ELEMENTS I see no solution at all. I find eventually words such as QUEL, QUELQUE, TENT, TEMP, MENT, ELLE but that’s it moreless. I do not read any

"Michel Florencio van Langren says that one should make two cylindrical copper vessels of"

from the – additionally modified –

"michelflorenciouanlangrendictqvonfairadeuxuiſeſdecuiuredeſemblablecipaciteenformedecelindreaiantpimeſmeeſtoillereu"

AT ALL. To me, both of the previous extracts simply do NOT MATCH this one

m93h5lflorenc9ouanlangr5nd9ctqvonfa9ra4euxui?e?d5cu9ure4e?5mblabl5cipa39teenformedecel9ndr5a9antpim5?mee?to9ller5u9entaume?mem5r9donpart9t9lne

at all.

Sorry. Either I am too stupid to follow this one or it is just nonsense. I see, however, the term ‘long9tude’ as some sort of promising approach.

QT

Sorry. Either I am too stupid to follow this one or it is just nonsense.

Clearly, it is the former. Can’t you even follow the simple method? Replace 1 with "A", replace 2 with "B" etc….

Here is an attempt at putting in word spaces (I don’t speak archaic 400-year-old French) in Google Translate:

You use GOOGLE TRANSLATOR to complete your findings into FRENCH? I can’t stop laughing..

But ok, I will seriously try your IDEA of a=1 b=2 etc..based on your own transcription (from Klaus Schmeh’s site):

m93h5lflorenc9ouanlangr5nd9ctqvonfa9ra4euxui?e?d5cu9ure4e?5mblabl5cipa39teenformedecel9ndr5a9antpim5?mee?to9ller5u9entaume?mem5r9donpart9t9lne
MJCHELFLORENCJOUANLANGRENDJCTQVONFAJRADEUXUI?E?DECUJUREDE?EMBLABLECIPACJTEENFORMEDECELJNDREAJANTPIME?MEE?TOJENTAUME?MEMERJDONPARTJTJLNE

6aultqueprendre3e?ted9fferenceparle?e?to9lle?duf9rmamentautentantquelaprem95reua?trempl9d5leau4elamnneraouuertnreala?econ4elaqnellef9n9raau??y
FAULTQUEPRENDRECE?TEDJFFERENCEPARLE?E?TOJLLE?DUFJRMAMENTAUTENTANTQUELAPREMJEREUA?TREMPLJDELEAUDELAMNNERAOUUERTNREALA?ECONDELAQNELLEFJNJRAAU??Y

candlad9t5e?to9lle?euelqu5l95gedeqnoy49eunleriaprem9er5autemp?dvdepirtem5ntenmarkantquelquee?to9ll5co7nue?o9taumer9d9enc5tt5ua?5?erauu9d5cinte
CANDLADJTEE?TOJLLE?EUELQUELJEGEDQNOYDJEUNLERIAPREMJEREAUTEMP?DVDEPIRTEMENTENMARKANTQUELQUEE?TOJLLECOGNUE?OJTAUMERJDJENCETTEUA?E?ERAUUJDECINTE

First of all, on this thread you never explained your so-called ‘solution’ IN DETAIL. Instead it lies behind some paywall of a magazine nobody had ever mentioned before. You then explain some ‘steps’ – ok – but without doing so on the cipher ITSELF. Instead, you ‘slightly’ ignore the fact that i is not equal to J etc. Finally you throw everything into Google translator and post its (autocorrected) results. Then you expect people to follow your idea – seriously?

But let’s see your ‘result’, how real it is:

WHAT IT ACTUALLY READS:
Mjchel Florencjo uan Langren djct quon fajr a deux ui?e? de cujure de ?emblable cipacjte en forme de celjndre a jantpime? mee? tojent au me? meme rjd on partjt jl ne
fault que prendre ce?te djfference par le ?e?to jlle ?du fjrmament au tentant que la premjere ua?t remplj de l’eau de la mnneraou uert nre a la ?econde la qnelle finiraau??y
cand la djte e?tojlle ?euel que le jegedqnoyd jeun le ria premjere au temp? dv depirtement en markant quel que e?tojlle cognue? ojt au merjdjen cette ua?e?er au uj de cinte

HOW IT COULD BE READ:
Michel Florencio van Langren djit qu’on fait a deux ????? de cuivre de semblable capacité en forme de cylindre a ??????????? ????? ???????? au me? meme ??? on partit il ne
fault que prendre cette difference par le ?etoile? du firmament au tentant que la premiere ???? rempli de l’eau de la ??????????? vert ??? a la seconde la qu‘elle finira au ???
???? la dite etoile quel’que le ??????????????? ???? le ??? premiere au temps du departement en marquant quel-que etoile ???????? ??? au meridien cette ???????? au ?? de ?????

THUS, besides ignoring letters i=j and v=u and others (e.g. ‘e?tojlle?’) I have marked all ERRORS of your solution, which definitely lacks of completion (at least on this thread) in red.

IT was only after doing the previous that it was possible for me to follow your APPROACH at all. And yes, I agree that you have found at least (!) some partial cleartext. But to call me stupid because the previous shall all be ‘self-explaining’ according your ‘instruction’ is just ignorance at its best.

But now, as you have done so, would you at least be so kind to PROVIDE your (FRENCH) solution? As, so far, we haven’t SEEN ANY OF SUCH from your side? I think your solution very well may be correct but could still be INCOMPLETE, too???? But well, as I am stupid according to you, you may want to provide – especially the ??????? parts?

I respect your findings but before calling other people stupid – directly or indirectly – you should come up with your (French) solution, first.

QT

Q

You use GOOGLE TRANSLATOR to complete your findings into FRENCH? I can’t stop laughing..

But ok, I will seriously try your IDEA of a=1 b=2 etc..based on your own transcription (from Klaus Schmeh’s site):

m93h5lflorenc9ouanlangr5nd9ctqvonfa9ra4euxui?e?d5cu9ure4e?5mblabl5cipa39teenformedecel9ndr5a9antpim5?mee?to9ller5u9entaume?mem5r9donpart9t9lne
MJCHELFLORENCJOUANLANGRENDJCTQVONFAJRADEUXUI?E?DECUJUREDE?EMBLABLECIPACJTEENFORMEDECELJNDREAJANTPIME?MEE?TOJENTAUME?MEMERJDONPARTJTJLNE

6aultqueprendre3e?ted9fferenceparle?e?to9lle?duf9rmamentautentantquelaprem95reua?trempl9d5leau4elamnneraouuertnreala?econ4elaqnellef9n9raau??y
FAULTQUEPRENDRECE?TEDJFFERENCEPARLE?E?TOJLLE?DUFJRMAMENTAUTENTANTQUELAPREMJEREUA?TREMPLJDELEAUDELAMNNERAOUUERTNREALA?ECONDELAQNELLEFJNJRAAU??Y

candlad9t5e?to9lle?euelqu5l95gedeqnoy49eunleriaprem9er5autemp?dvdepirtem5ntenmarkantquelquee?to9ll5co7nue?o9taumer9d9enc5tt5ua?5?erauu9d5cinte
CANDLADJTEE?TOJLLE?EUELQUELJEGEDQNOYDJEUNLERIAPREMJEREAUTEMP?DVDEPIRTEMENTENMARKANTQUELQUEE?TOJLLECOGNUE?OJTAUMERJDJENCETTEUA?E?ERAUUJDECINTE

First of all, on this thread you never explained your so-called ‘solution’ IN DETAIL. Instead it lies behind some paywall of a magazine nobody had ever mentioned before. You then explain some ‘steps’ – ok – but without doing so on the cipher ITSELF. Instead, you ‘slightly’ ignore the fact that i is not equal to J etc. Finally you throw everything into Google translator and post its (autocorrected) results. Then you expect people to follow your idea – seriously?

But let’s see your ‘result’, how real it is:

WHAT IT ACTUALLY READS:
Mjchel Florencjo uan Langren djct quon fajr a deux ui?e? de cujure de ?emblable cipacjte en forme de celjndre a jantpime? mee? tojent au me? meme rjd on partjt jl ne
fault que prendre ce?te djfference par le ?e?to jlle ?du fjrmament au tentant que la premjere ua?t remplj de l’eau de la mnneraou uert nre a la ?econde la qnelle finiraau??y
cand la djte e?tojlle ?euel que le jegedqnoyd jeun le ria premjere au temp? dv depirtement en markant quel que e?tojlle cognue? ojt au merjdjen cette ua?e?er au uj de cinte

HOW IT COULD BE READ:
Michel Florencio van Langren djit qu’on fait a deux ????? de cuivre de semblable capacité en forme de cylindre a ??????????? ????? ???????? au me? meme ??? on partit il ne
fault que prendre cette difference par le ?etoile? du firmament au tentant que la premiere ???? rempli de l’eau de la ??????????? vert ??? a la seconde la qu‘elle finira au ???
???? la dite etoile quel’que le ??????????????? ???? le ??? premiere au temps du departement en marquant quel-que etoile ???????? ??? au meridien cette ???????? au ?? de ?????

THUS, besides ignoring letters i=j and v=u and others (e.g. ‘e?tojlle?’) I have marked all ERRORS of your solution, which might simply lack of completion (at least on this thread) in red.

IT was only after doing the previous (!) that it was possible for me to follow your APPROACH – at all. And yes, I agree that you have found at least some cleartext. But to call me stupid because the previous to be self-explaining according your ‘instruction’ is just ignorance at its best.

But now, as you have done so, would you at least be so kind to PROVIDE your (FRENCH) solution? As, so far, we haven’t SEEN ANY OF SUCH from your side? I think your solution very well may be correct but could still be INCOMPLETE, too???? But well, as I am stupid according to you, you may want to provide – especially the ??????? parts?

I respect your findings, seriously, but before calling other people stupid – directly or indirectly – you should first come up with a (French) solution. To me it is very obvious why you did not: So far, on this thread, it simply is incomplete.

QT

Hey QT are you ok ?

Hello Mr. QT ,

You have a good command of contemporary French, with respect to archaic French there must be some difference, I imagine. Did you take that into consideration?
I noticed a lot of Latin words (obvious).

I’m surprised that you are angry with the author of the decoding theory (Jarvle), in this case, being that the one who made a reference to your "inability" to understand all that was a third person.

Calm down, don’t let yourself be irritated, you certainly have a lot of capacity.
Just don’t get angry with Jarvle, I was the one who posted this as a matter of curiosity, and I wouldn’t like this to become a "flame war".

Marcelo

I’m fine with delivering results / (partial) solutions and yes the French of it is mostly fine, too (surprisingly not many differences) .

But if someone does not deliver a – complete – cleartext in its original language, I strictly believe there is no need to claim others to be stupid nor to claim having found any (complete) solution at all, period. His finding is nice but so far we did not see the (complete, original) solution. Not angry but it’s annoying if people start to celebrate without such. Easy to play it secretly if it’s not complete, isn’t it?

We’ll see if the complete text will show up. Cipher solved? Yes. Completely? Still not seen it, yet.

Indubitably: yes, why shouldn’t I. No need to start a flame war either, interesting thread for sure.

QT

I’m not fanning the flames of war if that’s what you meant QT . Again congratulations Jarvle !

Apparently, QT thinks that I am Jarlve? Perhaps he is unable to read the name of who posts.
Since he also seems to think the 9th letter is "J" I’m not surprised. Here’s a hint. It’s "I"

In any case, I do agree that this solution could have been presented better, with the original plaintext. The are many complications, since the original transcription sometimes mistakes the "capital I" and the "lower case l." Which can throw of the entire order, if there is even one extra or missing letter.

Thankfully, poster "Norbert" from Klaus’s blog has made a corrected transcription and decipherment. Here is the plaintext, with added word breaks, added punctuation/accents, and necessary corrections to the ambiguous use of U/V and also of I/J which are common in archaic languages:

Michel Florencio van Langren dict qu’on faira deux vases de cuivre de semblable capacité en forme de cylindre aiant par en bas une pointe conique, au milieu de laquelle on faira un pertuis conforme qu’on veult faire le fil lé aquatique pour vider lesdites vases et les aiant oit vidée afin de l’on cognoistera par les estoilles en combien de temps elles se vident.

Cette diligence faira-t-on journellement durant le susdite voyage. Desirant doncques de sçauoir combien de degrez on est en longitude du meridien d’où on partit, il ne fault que prendre cette difference par les estoilles du firmament au temps cant un des dites vases cesse de couler. Se ne n’estre surpris on faira flotter un vergette au dit cylindre supporté par quelque liege. De quoy Dieu loué.

And here, translated to English. Which says EXACTLY what the posted summary says:

Michel Florencio van Langren dictates that we will make two copper vases of similar capacity in the shape of a cylinder having a conical point at the bottom, in the middle of which we will make a suitable sluice that we want to make the watery stream to empty the said vases. and having them emptied in order to be cognizant by the stars in how long they empty.

This diligence will be done daily during the aforesaid trip. Desiring therefore to know how many degrees we are in longitude of the meridian from which we started, we only have to take this difference by the stars of the firmament at the time when one of the said vessels stops flowing. Do not be surprised we will float a rod at the said cylinder supported by some cork. From whom God praised.

And to be clear, I personally and independently have verified all of this. In fact I spent hours on it, particularly because of mistakes made in the original transcription. Which I’m certain were accidental. The original transcription, after being corrected by "Norbert" is quite good.

Thanks for providing, no idea why I thought you posted in Jarle’s name. Whatever, the solution is good and the method works fine, note the final sentence one may use a Cork with a needle as a compass in those cylinders. With that direction the navigation becomes complete, definition of the ships own position indeed possible.

Langren might be the reason why maps look like they do today.

QT