If you go to page one of this thread and read down – its long – you get the whole story on these Fairfield letters, the points for and against, the FBI evaluation, etc. There are several points in their favor, including Foreigner showing how they match the "knife" writing and spacing on the car door, which was not known to the public. There are several other points in their favor, the FBI evaluations and the 38 predicted/promised murders a close match to the 1974 claim of 37. Also the letter asking for help, before the real Belli letter did so, and the threat to police, before the 4/20/70 letter did so.

Overall, I leaned in favor of these being real, for the reasons mentioned above and others, though I was bothered by the content which did not seem to have the wit and intelligence of Zodiac. What changed my mind is when Morf got the envelopes, which you can see at the bottom of page one. Those envelopes have zip codes, something no real Z envelope had. And as Morf noted, they were not double posted, and one even came with postage due! Very uncharacteristic of Zodiac. The envelopes lean me in favor of these being probably fake. Though the other factors remain – how did the writer see the car door unless he was Zodiac? Or was LB a copycat crime? Very doubtful. Could the hoaxer have inside knowledge? Was the hoaxer also a killer? Or was the real Zodiac playing some game here to throw off police? or for his own reasons?

IMO, it is not uncharacteristic of Z to do things that would previously have been seen as uncharacteristic of Z.

On the contrary, that almost seems to be a defining characteristic.

G

Okay, no doubt, this letter,& the Bleeding knife letter,mailed together.

Interesting and worrying. There are elements in the bleeding knife page that are in some of the other dodgy letters, namely the pines card. So now that we know (well corroborated btw morf) the bleeding knife and this letter were sent together, that is what it’s telling us isn’t it? Well that makes the whole thing a bit more interesting.

I can’t quite get my head around how interesting but there are things here that are odd. I can’t believe I missed TF’s spot on the knife, maybe I didn’t but it just didn’t register with me before but now I look at it…..wow.

My main concern is that Zodiac was a hoaxer. Problem is that even when he wasn’t writing as Zodiac the traits were still there even when disguised. And that’s from 66-74. This letter has some but it’s all wrong. The spacing and the new habits that are presented in it, I can’t account for them and it’s for that reason I don’t think it’s Z. If I could find a precedent for this style or even a hint of it in Z’s writing then I would be more suspicious but so far I haven’t.

Curious indeed. Good work guys.

AK, I learned in researching the Exorcist letter (which does have a 3-digit zip code) that the zip codes were just starting to be utilized at this time and were phased in over a number of years. Consequently, some post offices might have been utilizing zip codes and some not at the same time… and some used less specific 3-digit codes for a time like the "940" on the Exorcist letter. So it’s very possible that a letter sent on the same date might have a zip code from Fairfield but not from San Francisco and the sender obviously wouldn’t have any control over that. The stamps are another matter…

Okay, no doubt, this letter,& the Bleeding knife letter,mailed together.

Interesting and worrying. There are elements in the bleeding knife page that are in some of the other dodgy letters, namely the pines card. So now that we know (well corroborated btw morf) the bleeding knife and this letter were sent together, that is what it’s telling us isn’t it? Well that makes the whole thing a bit more interesting.

I can’t quite get my head around how interesting but there are things here that are odd. I can’t believe I missed TF’s spot on the knife, maybe I didn’t but it just didn’t register with me before but now I look at it…..wow.

My main concern is that Zodiac was a hoaxer. Problem is that even when he wasn’t writing as Zodiac the traits were still there even when disguised. And that’s from 66-74. This letter has some but it’s all wrong. The spacing and the new habits that are presented in it, I can’t account for them and it’s for that reason I don’t think it’s Z. If I could find a precedent for this style or even a hint of it in Z’s writing then I would be more suspicious but so far I haven’t.

Curious indeed. Good work guys.

Hell, look at that Atlanta questioned Zodiac doc, that looks nothing at all like Zodiac, and the FBI stated that the Zodiac should NOT be ruled out as its author. Now I am going to go back and look at the foreigner’s knife findings

Here’s the comparison foreigner pointed out to Hartnell’s car door:

It’s not a perfect match but there is an unmistakable 3-stroke K and similar stylized f. Pretty compelling argument as long as the car door wasn’t made public and I don’t see any pictures of it in the SF Chronicle articles of the time. I wonder when the photo was first made public…

good question about the car door. The early pics of the door even had cardboard over top of the writing to prevent the words from being seen. Not sure when the pic of the car door ever hit the papers,or IF it ever hit

I honestly don’t know what the car door has to do with this letter. Everyone knew they were stabbed with a knife. ??

It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if this is the same guy who "gave" the Pines card to the Chronicle.

The "K" on the Bleeding Knife letter looks like an "h" made into a "K"….with lots of tracing over. Just like the Pines card. http://zodiackiller.com/PinesCard.html

–Note the rounded former "K" in Chronicle.

While some will use this as confirmation this was a Zodiac missive, it just confirms for me a terrible hoaxer was enjoying taking credit. It’s just too bad they only knew the traits of the letters, and not the envelopes…we can thank the Chronicle for that!

Everybody did know that the couple was stabbed, but the writing on the door at Berryessa was unknown to people outside of police & zodiac, and Foreigner was just stating that she felt the door writing was indeed close to the State Is In Trouble letter

Everybody did know that the couple was stabbed, but the writing on the door at Berryessa was unknown to people outside of police & zodiac, and Foreigner was just stating that she felt the door writing was indeed close to the State Is In Trouble letter

I think the most distinctive letters to compare it too are the "f" & the "k" and there are just no similarities there, imo. But I suppose beauty (or in this case handwriting) is in the eye of the beholder.

It is close. No it’s not a perfect match, in fact I don’t think it is a match.

That’s not what worries me. It’s where it is similar that is the problem. And how considering that part of the message wasn’t made public. This is corroborated by the chronicle articles. They carry a description of the message but with no mention of the knife part and LE states that they are holding some things back. And we’ve all seen the door with that part covered.

Now bearing that in mind and that we are dealing with one, five character word….

Why are there so many similar stylings? And there are similar stylings IMO. The slight curve to the leg on the K, the n with rounded top and the relationship of the cross bar on the f (candycane of course) and the elongated tail on the e which is the same on both the door and the bleeding knife letter. Now I’m not suggesting this makes it Zodiac but it looks kinda like whoever penned these letters saw that door in it’s entirety. It looks like a copy from memory.

It’s not just the similarities either, well it is but … the lowercase n, the car door is the only place I’ve seen Zodiac use that n. He may have done one somewhere else but I’ve had a cursory glance over all the letters and his normal l/c n has a kink in the top. There are variations and some are pretty close to a full rounded top but there’s usually a slight kink, the other end of his scale the n’s are practically sideways z’s. So…..that’s another coincidence in the space of just 5 characters that this author just happened to get right.

Just seems suspicious to me.

Trav, not sure where you stand, but in the demo you just made, hilighting the letters in red, look at the downward slant on the crossbar of the F, and lower part of the E, it closely DOES match Zodiac’s downward slants in the same letter. No way a copycat would know those slants like that from the car door. More ammo that makes me think this could be a legit Z letter, not that it being a legit Z letter helps us in any way.

It is close. No it’s not a perfect match, in fact I don’t think it is a match.

That’s not what worries me. It’s where it is similar that is the problem. And how considering that part of the message wasn’t made public. This is corroborated by the chronicle articles. They carry a description of the message but with no mention of the knife part and LE states that they are holding some things back. And we’ve all seen the door with that part covered.

Now bearing that in mind and that we are dealing with one, five character word….

Why are there so many similar stylings? And there are similar stylings IMO. The slight curve to the leg on the K, the n with rounded top and the relationship of the cross bar on the f (candycane of course) and the elongated tail on the e which is the same on both the door and the bleeding knife letter. Now I’m not suggesting this makes it Zodiac but it looks kinda like whoever penned these letters saw that door in it’s entirety. It looks like a copy from memory.

It’s not just the similarities either, well it is but … the lowercase n, the car door is the only place I’ve seen Zodiac use that n. He may have done one somewhere else but I’ve had a cursory glance over all the letters and his normal l/c n has a kink in the top. There are variations and some are pretty close to a full rounded top but there’s usually a slight kink, the other end of his scale the n’s are practically sideways z’s. So…..that’s another coincidence in the space of just 5 characters that this author just happened to get right.

Just seems suspicious to me.

Sounds like you’re venturing into Hal Snook territory…

JS

Yeah I know lol. I was thinking that but I do feel that the representation of ‘knife’ in the bleeding knife letter appears to have been based on the car door ‘knife’. Now, that’s not definite, it could be coincidence based on the authors practice with other Zodiac words. That however seems more far fetched than the author actually having seen the door and reproducing it from memory.

If we agree that this is a hoax then someone created it and there’s a a possibility, in my mind at least, that it was someone who saw that door, or a picture of it. It might not have made the press but who knows how many people did see it before it was eventually made public.

I’m not set on it but I am suspicious of the similarities and that they seem to be an attempt at a reproduction. Good catch TF.

It’s not just the similarities either, well it is but … the lowercase n, the car door is the only place I’ve seen Zodiac use that n.

Ding, ding, ding! lol ….just messing with ya.

Those two k’s really look nothing alike! The car door is clearly a three stroke…the bleeding knife was formed off of the h. And how about the TOP of that "f"?

If he was going by memory, why the sharp "e" on knife?

I’ve said it before….if you are going to try and copy something, you are bound to get lucky with some traits, but when more doesn’t match than does? Nah.