If Bettye Harden already knew the ending, whatever that may be, there is no account of her ever revealing what it is to anyone. That to me implies that she did not know it when she presumably wrote that.
I mean let’s be honest, if don and/or Bettye were responsible for authoring the Ciphers, wouldn’t the way they did it make perfect sense?
No, that does not make sense to me. What makes sense is that amateur code enthusiasts solved an amateur code.
Duck if the code was so amateurish in it’s construction, then that should mean the professional code breakers at the FBI & Navy crack it within hours? If the code is amateur in design, that doesn’t mean it will more likely for an amateur cryptographer to solve it as I think your implying. It means the professional code breakers at the FBI and Navy should crack it in a few hours. After all, the U.S Government employ the Naval Code Breakers because they deem them the best in the Country at deciphering hidden codes in war time when the United States security is at steak. I would be seriously shocked if these same trusted experts were baffled and perplexed by a cipher that was so amateurish in it’s creation.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
The cipher was sent to the Skaggs Island Naval base right outside of Vallejo. "Skaggs Island was a Top Secret radio surveillance and cryptologic communications installation". Most likely because the base was handy. Doubtful that they had their top cipher solvers stationed there. It wasn’t like the cipher was sent to Washington.
A site with some cool pictures of Skaggs Island after it was abandoned and before it was razed.
http://lostamerica.com/photo-items/mili … gs-island/
The cipher was sent to the Skaggs Island Naval base right outside of Vallejo. "Skaggs Island was a Top Secret radio surveillance and cryptologic communications installation". Most likely because the base was handy. Doubtful that they had their top cipher solvers stationed there. It wasn’t like the cipher was sent to Washington.
A site with some cool pictures of Skaggs Island after it was abandoned and before it was razed.
That maybe so but they had the FBI’s code breakers try to crack it and come away red faced. Whether it’s a code breaker at a naval base or a crypotographer from the FBI’s ranks the assumption I am making is the same for both: To be employed by either the FBI, Navy, NSA, CIA or any other, they would have to be the best in the Country at what they do. The FBI don’t recruit agents of ‘average’ investigative prowess, nor do the CIA consider applicants of any calibre. My point is, for the CIA to employ John Doe as a code breaker,you know John Doe is going to have shown himself and proven to the CIA that if he’s isn’t ‘The’ best, he’s one of.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
I’m quoting this post of Ducky’s on page 3 of this thread. Perhaps you missed it. Ducky makes a very valid observation about who exactly looked at the cipher before it was solved by the Harden’s.
Maybe you better do some research on Skagg’s Island Naval Base and show that the top cipher solvers were stationed there .
Odd. I was just discussing this on the IMDB Z board.
I made a good point that hasn’t been brought up here, so I’ll repost it here.
where does this idea that the ciphers were sent to the Navy, FBI, CIA, and NSA and they were unable to solve them? That’s in Graysmith of course and it makes a good story, but is it true?
The newspaper story in the Vallejo Times Herald on August 6, 1969 about the Harden’s solution says that it was sent to the Navy, but not the others.
The FBI files state "The Ciphers enclosed with items 2 dash 4 were submitted by the Vallejo Police Department to the Navy Department, but were not examined by cryptographer." emphasis mine.
The FBI’s examination of the ciphers occur after the Harden’s had already solved it and in fact it confirms their solution to be correct.
It would seem that the reason none of these agencies could solve it was because they never tried to.
if it is the case that Bettye did write that almost without question, then I can’t see how the message can be interpreted any other way other than it being A self incriminating statement.
Graysmith said that Bettye had a keen interest in the unsolved Z340 cipher and he proposed his own solution in the book. If she really did write that it would seem that she meant his solution was the theory and she started the case with her Z408 solution and will end it when she solves the Z340. That would make the most sense.
Anyway I can see what Duck is intending to imply with the comment "What makes sense is that amateur code enthusiasts solved an amateur code." If i’m not mistaking the intended suggestion here then the comment is one that claims "To decipher the code of an amateur cryptographer, you need the skills of an amateur cryptographer." Well i’m an amateur tennis player and lets say your given a choice to pick me to beat a fellow amateur player, or would you opt for there being more chance that the current Professional Men’s Wimbledon & US Open Champion Andy Murray would be more likely to find the task easy and place your money on him?
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
"Maybe you better do some research on Skagg’s Island Naval Base and show that the top cipher solvers were stationed there ."
If that was directed at me Seagull then my reply is: No I don’t have to do any such thing. I never claimed Skagg’s Naval Facility housed any such top code breakers. I said Navy in general. If your asking that of someone else then please ignore the statement.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
You totally missed the point. It seems that ONLY the Navy tried to solve the cipher BEFORE the Harden’s were able to solve it. Not the FBI, not the CIA or any other agency. The Navy attempted the solve at one of their lesser bases, not at the main headquarters where presumably their top solvers were stationed.
Chappie show me where the cipher was sent to any place besides the Navy base at Skagg’s Island. You are injecting your opinions as fact yet again.
You totally missed the point. It seems that ONLY the Navy tried to solve the cipher BEFORE the Harden’s were able to solve it. Not the FBI, not the CIA or any other agency. The Navy attempted the solve at one of their lesser bases, not at the main headquarters where presumably their top solvers were stationed.
Chappie show me where the cipher was sent to any place besides the Navy base at Skagg’s Island. You are injecting your opinions as fact yet again.
Seagull, thank you for again claiming something false regarding myself. This is not my opinion at all, and I am not making this claim as one of my own and trying to state something as fact when it’s not. I am basing what I say on Robert Graysmiths and other ‘experts’ comments. Give me a few minutes and i’ll post the link showing R.G stating it. I would appreciate Seagull if you’d ask what source I am using or where the info I am stating is coming from and not automatically assume it is my own opinion and that I am arrogant enough to claim my own opinions are as good as facts!
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Clip 1: 7:36 in: "No one could break the code, the NSA, FBI…." Link: http://youtu.be/GbR2w5VOVDg
Clip 2: 3:06 in: "The published codes stumped hundreds of amateur cryptographers and several intelligence agencies." Link: http://youtu.be/8X5vrU87CGs
Clip 3: 7:34: Tom Voigt: "The Military couldn’t decode it, nor the CIA, nobody" Link: http://youtu.be/Go2LCyRAVmc
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
So, if you have a challenge to the claim that the Military & CIA couldn’t solve it, I suggest you go take that up with Tom who clearly states otherwise in the 3rd clip as I am only quoting what he and others have stated.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Robert Graysmith! Ha Ha Ha!!! A notorious fabricator.
Have you ever heard me mention his so called "Sonoma Composite"? A classic example of GS/BS.
See my post from July 7, 2013 here-
Robert Graysmith! Ha Ha Ha!!! A notorious fabricator.
Have you ever heard me mention his so called "Sonoma Composite"? A classic example of GS/BS.
See my post from July 7, 2013 here-
Ok are you going to say HA HA HA to Tom’s claims stating the Military and CIA tried and failed to break the code?
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
So, if you have a challenge to the claim that the Military & CIA couldn’t solve it, I suggest you go take that up with Tom who clearly states otherwise in the 3rd clip as I am only quoting what he and others have stated.
That clip of Tom was done in 1999 before people figured out what a fabricator Graysmith was, I guarantee that Tom would not say that today.
The Crimes of the Century was done in 1989, see above.
I could not see the first clip you provided as it is blocked in my country.
So, if you have a challenge to the claim that the Military & CIA couldn’t solve it, I suggest you go take that up with Tom who clearly states otherwise in the 3rd clip as I am only quoting what he and others have stated.
That clip of Tom was done in 1999 before people figured out what a fabricator Graysmith was, I guarantee that Tom would not say that today.
The Crimes of the Century was done in 1989, see above.
I could not see the first clip you provided as it is blocked in my country.
So am I claiming an opinion of my own as factual and based on nothing, or am I simply guilty of trusting Tom again because you claim Tom stated something on a documentary as a fact when it was not and he was completely wrong, the same as my naïve trust in anything Robert says as well as Tom now?
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
I will say without hesitation, I apologize for restating something that I believed was not disputed, when in fact, it’s not at all undisputed as a fact. However, contrary to the claim I was "Stating my opinion as fact again" I was, in fact, taking claims made by several sources including Robert G, Tom V and documentaries on the case and restating them as fact as the aforementioned individuals had done in previous instances.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
