When did white pride/power start using the cross hair symbol? I can’t say that I recall white pride or white power being in existence in the 60’s.

The Aryan Nation was formed in the early 70’s by a follower of Rev. Wesley Swift, who had close ties to the Minutemen. The Aryan Brotherhood is a little older, dating back to the early 60s. Keith Gilbert is said to have been a member since 1965, so there is a Minutemen connection with them as well. I’m not sure when any of the white power/neo-nazi groups started actually using the Celtic Cross, but the Minutemen used an actual gun sight for their logo instead of a cross.

Trav:
You listed several professions that might have related to Z’s "artistic" penchant. Would a Graphic Designer fit into those categories?

Maybe Z did this???

I doubt that this was the work of the Zodiac…But Has that image ever been discussed? When was it posted? Has it ever been looked into? I apologize if its already been discussed somewhere.

Trav:
You listed several professions that might have related to Z’s "artistic" penchant. Would a Graphic Designer fit into those categories?

Maybe Z did this???

I doubt that this was the work of the Zodiac…But Has that image ever been discussed? When was it posted? Has it ever been looked into? I apologize if its already been discussed somewhere.

It was a joke. Something I found on the interwebs a couple years ago and people talking about Z possibly being into graphic arts reminded me of this for some reason. You must be from Minnesota?? Go Vikings!!

If Z was a member of the Minutemen or the KKK, then of course he’s not going to make any racist remarks in his letters. That would be too big of a clue. But we do know for a fact that the Minutemen used the crosshair symbol before Zodiac. The Klan also uses the same symbol.

Yes, but isn’t it a bit of a stretch to theorize that Z might have been a member of such a group but NOT a representative of said group?

It’s not impossible, of course, but for my money the odds are against it. He used the symbol, after all. If that symbol was meaningful to him, as a – well – racist of some kind, I find it very odd that he used it freely, but nevertheless deliberately refrained from making any allusions to his convictions in the letters. Plus, the victims don’t seem to reflect any racist agenda either.

Z = a racist (and a member of a racist group) uses a racist (to him) symbol, but otherwise makes an effort not to betray any such agenda. It doesn’t make sense to me.

When did white pride/power start using the cross hair symbol? I can’t say that I recall white pride or white power being in existence in the 60’s.

The Celtic Cross (or Odin’s Cross, or Sun Cross) was used by various fascist/nationalist groups as early as the 1930s, and probably before that.

I’m not sure if there is anything definite here, doesn’t seem to be. But it was certainly used by such groups well before WWII in Europe. The pro German/Nazi "Nasjonal Samling" [national gathering, literally translated] party in Norway, for instance, whose leader Vidkun Quisling gave name to an archetypal traitor, used this symbol for its logo:

The preference for the symbol may be, I suppose, explained two-fold:

a) It is a Christian symbol (thus serving anti-Semitic groups, and these unsavory idiots tend to be just that); and b) It is a "Germanic" or "Norse" symbol (serving the sort of idiots who believe in "heritage" and the "purity" of a particular fairytale known as the "white race", seeing the latter as being most "pure" in northern Europe, a belief not supported by anything beyond the same idiocy which characterizes the phenomenon as such).

Odin himself, if he’s still around, would probably laugh heartily at their narrow minded follies, given that he was – by all accounts – a rather shrewd dude.

Norse:
I doubt anyone will get much mileage out of trying to decipher the meaning (if any) of Z’s circle-and-cross symbol. I suspect he thought it was just kinda "cool." If he did symbolize it, he’d probably have considered it a marksman’s cross hairs, which makes a kind of goofy sense. After all, he did elaborate about using a pencil flashlight for aiming a pistol at a target at night.

If Z was a member of the Minutemen or the KKK, then of course he’s not going to make any racist remarks in his letters. That would be too big of a clue. But we do know for a fact that the Minutemen used the crosshair symbol before Zodiac. The Klan also uses the same symbol.

Yes, but isn’t it a bit of a stretch to theorize that Z might have been a member of such a group but NOT a representative of said group?

It’s not impossible, of course, but for my money the odds are against it. He used the symbol, after all. If that symbol was meaningful to him, as a – well – racist of some kind, I find it very odd that he used it freely, but nevertheless deliberately refrained from making any allusions to his convictions in the letters. Plus, the victims don’t seem to reflect any racist agenda either.

Z = a racist (and a member of a racist group) uses a racist (to him) symbol, but otherwise makes an effort not to betray any such agenda. It doesn’t make sense to me.

Agreed. Another thought is that Z used to cross hair symbol to try setting up someone in the Minutemen. They had a lot of enemies and most people knew who they were and had seen their stickers around that had the cross hair on it.

They consider letters they are asked to consider, but there is no conclusion they were Zodiac and if they were determined to be from him I’d say someone was smokin’ the crack pipe.

So yes, in light of there being no conclusive evidence they were actually written by Zodiac, I remain of the opinion there are no clues as to Zodiac being a racist, etc.

Overtone’s of racism, but not racist per se, with such little correspondence on the subject matter at hand I think the word I choose for him would be indifferent. he was way to busy with other hate fueled feelings building daily.

Odin himself, if he’s still around, would probably laugh heartily at their narrow minded follies, given that he was – by all accounts – a rather shrewd dude.

I just loved the way you described things in this post. That made my day.

Wasn’t sure where to post this so I chose this thread. I was reading the police report on Zodiac’s attack on Darlene Ferrin and Mike Mageau. Mike’s dad gave an interview saying that he and Mike lived together. That he and his wife were divorced. That the mother and Mike’s twin brother lived together in LA. That on the night of Zodiac’s attack, he (the father) spent the night at the Kentwig Motel. I was just thinking that if Darlene and Mike could have been alone at the house instead of Blue Rock Springs. From Mike’s dad’s interview, it sounds like no one was home. On this same note, I Googled Kentwig Motel and found that a coin and stamp business is selling a postcard of Kentwig Motel on Ebay for $2.49. Thought I would mention it in case someone had an interest in it.

Several weeks ago, I went back and re-read a March, 1969 article ("In the Name of the Law") in the S.F. Express Times and noticed an interesting detail.

the spailpeen fanach wrote…
O’brien had been accompanied that evening by Patrolman Willis Gariott and two female friends. The girls were in the car and when the guns supposedly came out, Garriott ran off up the alley to Folsom Street looking for help. He found a Special Police Officer(a private cop) and a Yellow Cab. He told the cab driver to call headquarters and get help.

Am I reading too much into this? Keep in mind that on Wednesday, October 9, 1968, Officer O’brien was charged with Mr. Baskett’s murder. On Saturday, October 11, 1969, Zodiac murdered Paul Stine. Perhaps Z had a regular job and was only free on weekends to do his thing. You could make the same case for his attack at Lake Berryessa — he couldn’t do the attack on the one-year anniversary of Mr. Baskett’s killing since that day fell on a Monday.

If you think the Zodiac was possibly a cop or had cops help cover for him, Anthony Jack Sully

http://murderpedia.org/male.S/s/scully-anthony.htm

Perhaps Sully or someone else took out Stine bc Stine was in the Yellow Cab and witnessed something in the Baskett murder. But then how did the hit man/"Zodiac" know Stine would pick him up? Eh.

Several weeks ago, I went back and re-read a March, 1969 article ("In the Name of the Law") in the S.F. Express Times and noticed an interesting detail.

the spailpeen fanach wrote…
O’brien had been accompanied that evening by Patrolman Willis Gariott and two female friends. The girls were in the car and when the guns supposedly came out, Garriott ran off up the alley to Folsom Street looking for help. He found a Special Police Officer(a private cop) and a Yellow Cab. He told the cab driver to call headquarters and get help.

Am I reading too much into this? Keep in mind that on Wednesday, October 9, 1968, Officer O’brien was charged with Mr. Baskett’s murder. On Saturday, October 11, 1969, Zodiac murdered Paul Stine. Perhaps Z had a regular job and was only free on weekends to do his thing. You could make the same case for his attack at Lake Berryessa — he couldn’t do the attack on the one-year anniversary of Mr. Baskett’s killing since that day fell on a Monday.

If you think the Zodiac was possibly a cop or had cops help cover for him, Anthony Jack Scully

http://murderpedia.org/male.S/s/scully-anthony.htm

Perhaps Scully or someone else took out Stine bc Stine was in the Yellow Cab and witnessed something in the Baskett murder. But then how did the hit man/"Zodiac" know Stine would pick him up? Eh.

Now that is interesting!! Kinda funny how a cop left fingerprints. what a jackass!

If The Zodiac was a white supremacist, he sure did have a strange way of showing it, killing all those Aryans, and all.

I’m reminded of some of the old Davis/Manson theories: The Z campaign supposedly was a branch of Helter Skelter (the general purpose of which was to incite a racial war, specifically through killing people in a manner that would put the blame on black perpetrators). And when it was pointed out that Z had done a terrible job, since he was identified almost from the very beginning as a white man (there was no mistaking his ethnicity whatsoever), the answer was that Manson’s oh-so-subtle plan was to mix the blame-it-on-the-black-guy killings with…regular killings, because…er, because this would be pretty effective too. Or something like that. Incite racial hatred through non-racially motivated murders. A cunning plan, as Baldrick would say.

If Z was a member of the Minutemen or the KKK, then of course he’s not going to make any racist remarks in his letters. That would be too big of a clue. But we do know for a fact that the Minutemen used the crosshair symbol before Zodiac. The Klan also uses the same symbol.

It seems odd that a white supremacist would exclusively kill white victims, unless he thought they were not loyal enough to the white race (i.e. dating or marrying outside their race or participating in the civil rights movement. That doesn’t fit the profile of any of his victims. I can’t get into his head, but if he was a racist, his actions don’t seem to evidence his beliefs.