Side note from you most recent post. Cecelia did see the killer before he went behind the tree to put the costume on. She gave that information to David collins who said he didn’t think it was important and that is why it was not included in the police report.

Yes, she also gave information to Mr. and Mrs. White who were the first on the scene and gave her aid. That is in the police report.

Side note from you most recent post. Cecelia did see the killer before he went behind the tree to put the costume on. She gave that information to David collins who said he didn’t think it was important and that is why it was not included in the police report.

I tend to not believe professional law enforcement when they say something so obviously important to the case didn’t seem important enough to include in the police report. Nothing could have been more obviously important for Collins to include in the police report than the description he claims Shepard gave of her assailant. I don’t believe Collins’ claim that Cecelia Shepard gave him a description. For the exact same reason I don’t believe Fouke’s claim, forty years after the Stine crime, that he saw the suspect going to a specific address in Presidio Heights and didn’t think it was important enough to put into his report or tell anyone that night. A combined police and military manhunt was underway and Fouke didn’t think it was important to mention? I don’t buy it. I also don’t believe there was ever an NMA dispatch. These claims have the taint of back-engineered stories.

Addition to my response regarding LB.

The Napa County Sheriff’s Report Supplement, pages 6/7 says, "Mr. and Mrs. White, accompanied by Ranger Sgt. Bill White and Ronald Fong, proceeded to the scene in one of Mr. White’s ski boats. (paragraph) When they arrived on the scene, they observed a young female wearing a sweater dress lying on the beach, covered with blood. When they approached the area she was on her elbows and knees, rocking back and forth as if in great pain. Mrs. White stated she immediately attempted to make the victim more comfortable and tried to calm her down until the ambulance arrived. Mrs. White stated the victim advised him (my note: report does say "Mrs." and "him"), "He was a man with a hood … His face was covered … He was wearing black pants…It hurts, it hurts." Mrs. White then advised after the female had regained her composure, she told her the man had asked for money but didn’t take any. She said she hadn’t been raped. Mrs. White further advised that the female victim told her that the responsible was wearing glasses, with dark clip-on sunglasses over the hood. She told her that the responsible had a black pistol. Mr. Archie White stated he over heard the male victim advise someone that the responsible was wearing gloves. Mr. and Mrs. White advised that this was the only information either victim gave them on the responsible, and they spent the balance of the time attempting to make the victim more comfortable until the arrival of the ambulance."

Mr. and Mrs. White were interviewed by Officers Narlow and Lonergan. Mr. White is Archie White and Mrs. White is Elizabeth White. They were the owners of the Boat Repair Shop at Rancho Monticello Resort. Ranger Sgt. William White was not related to them. The report was filed by Narlow and Longergan.

We can see from this report that Shepard’s description adds nothing to Hartnell’s description (nor does it contradict it). Shepard does not describe the height, weight, build, hair color, voice etc. of the assailant. It does confirm that the assailant wore a hood, glasses, dark clip-on sunglasses, black pants and had a black pistol.

Side note from you most recent post. Cecelia did see the killer before he went behind the tree to put the costume on. She gave that information to David collins who said he didn’t think it was important and that is why it was not included in the police report.

I tend to not believe professional law enforcement when they say something so obviously important to the case didn’t seem important enough to include in the police report.

Are you saying the officers fabricated professional errors and slip ups? This would be very unusual. For what purpose?

Side note from you most recent post. Cecelia did see the killer before he went behind the tree to put the costume on. She gave that information to David collins who said he didn’t think it was important and that is why it was not included in the police report.

(My note: Sorry, this is a partial duplicate. It didn’t show up when I first posted it so I rewrote it below and was unsuccessful in deleting this version.)

I tend to not believe professional law enforcement when they say something so obviously important to the case didn’t seem important enough to include in the police report.

Are you saying the officers fabricated professional errors and slip ups? This would be very unusual. For what purpose?

On what basis do you claim it’s "very unusual" for people in any profession to try to cover their butts? Members of LE are human and run the gamut from highly professional, highly competent and incorruptible to unprofessional, incompetent and corrupt and everything in between.

In a situation like this in which a member of LE claims to have not thought it important to put a dying person’s declaration (ie. the description of her assailant) in his official report, the most favorable interpretation of his behavior that I can assess is that he’s grossly incompetent. At worst he’s flat-out lying after-the-fact. Either way, in my opinion, he’s not credible.

How would you interpret his behavior?

Side note from you most recent post. Cecelia did see the killer before he went behind the tree to put the costume on. She gave that information to David collins who said he didn’t think it was important and that is why it was not included in the police report.

I tend to not believe professional law enforcement when they say something so obviously important to the case didn’t seem important enough to include in the police report.

Are you saying the officers fabricated professional errors and slip ups? This would be very unusual. For what purpose?

I’m pretty sure that, due to being human, members of LE run the gamut from highly professional, highly competent and incorruptible to highly unprofessional, incompetent and corrupt — and everything in between. That could be said about people in pretty much any profession.

If Collins’ explanation for not including a crime victim’s dying declaration (ie. her description of her assailant) in his official report because he, Collins, didn’t think it was important, the most favorable assessment I can give of him is gross incompetence. At worse, he’s lying about her giving him a description. Either way, I don’t give him any credibility.

Why would he later claim that Shepard described her assailant to him? I don’t know but can only speculate that it was to get attention for being part of a notorious case allegedly linked to Z.

Let me ask you why you think a trained member of LE would think a crime victim’s dying declaration (ie. her description of her assailant) was so unimportant it wasn’t worth including in his official report? Why do you think he would later, long after the fact, claim she did give him a description?

I don’t know what Cecelia told Collins, if anything. However, Cecelia definitely described her attacker (pre-mask) to a female e.m.t. during the ambulance ride to the hospital.

I don’t know what Cecelia told Collins, if anything. However, Cecelia definitely described her attacker (pre-mask) to a female e.m.t. during the ambulance ride to the hospital.

Interesting. Can you provide a link to the EMT’s report? What was the EMT’s name?

I found this on Richard’s site (zodiacciphers.com). It is a picture taken from the third floor window looking down on where Paul Stine’s taxi cab was the night Zodiac murdered him. It’s interesting to me because I think we give a great deal of credence to the Robbins kids’ eye witness report, and this view gives me pause. Imagine this view at night with a wisp of fog. How could one judge and accurate height or weight? How could one describe the facial details? Moreover, how could one accurately describe what was going on in the car down below from that vantage point? I don’t think very well. Add to the fact that the three kids were 14 years old or less, even more salt has to be taken.

That leaves Foulke and Hartnell as the best eye witnesses IMO.

I found this on Richard’s site (zodiacciphers.com). It is a picture taken from the third floor window looking down on where Paul Stine’s taxi cab was the night Zodiac murdered him. It’s interesting to me because I think we give a great deal of credence to the Robbins kids’ eye witness report, and this view gives me pause. Imagine this view at night with a wisp of fog. How could one judge and accurate height or weight? How could one describe the facial details? Moreover, how could one accurately describe what was going on in the car down below from that vantage point? I don’t think very well. Add to the fact that the three kids were 14 years old or less, even more salt has to be taken.

That leaves Foulke and Hartnell as the best eye witnesses IMO.

Z wasn’t just viewed from the top storey of the house. The eldest witness went downstairs for a better look and even out in the street to see what was happening. The police had to tell him to go back inside for his own safety. In reality he was actually much closer to Z than if he’d just stayed upstairs.

I do agree though when people say he couldn’t have picked out a wrinkle in his forehead or whether one eye was slightly bigger than the other. That is just absurd. I’ve no doubt he got a good general idea of what Z looked like and would have had a good chance of guessing his height within a couple of inches as Z was stood right next to the cab.

Is that accurate?

My understanding is that by the time the older one got downstairs, Zodiac was just rounding the corner.

Donald Fouke said Zodiac had a widow’s peak with receding hairlines.

Donald Fouke said Zodiac had a widow’s peak with receding hairlines.

Foulke never said that Zodiac had a widow’s peak nor had receding hairlines. This is Foulke’s description:

“The suspect that was observed by officer Fouke was a WMA 35-45 Yrs about five-foot, ten inches, 180-200 pounds. Medium heavy build- Barrel chested- Medium complexion- Light-colored hair possibly greying in rear (May have been lighting that caused this effect.) Crew cut- wearing glasses- Dressed in dark blue waist length zipper type jacket (Navy or royal blue) Elastic cuffs and waist band zipped part way up. Brown wool pants pleated type baggy in rear (Rust brown) May have been wearing low cut shoes. Subject at no time appeared to be in a hurry walking with a shuffling lope, Slightly bent forward. The subject’s general appearance- Welsh ancestry.”

I’ve never understood "welsh ancestry"

Can anyone illuminate what sets someone apart as looking welsh?

Foulke himself was Welsh as was his father-in-law. I believe the common belief is that he thought Zodiac bore a resemblance to his father-in-law.