They were his, dating from his time in the service.

I’ve read elsewhere that the sole was also used on "Weinbrenner" non-skid uniform shoes, as well as on "Academy" police shoes. Not just Wing Walkers.
No, I don’t know if that’s correct – but it does spread their use around a bit, if true. *shrug*
Either way, if they’ve not helped catch anyone so far…..

The bottom line is, was this type of shoe (heel/sole) used exclusively through the military or was it available to the public?
This is potentially very important information, confirming the connection to a suspect who is in the military.
Yikes, how sure are we that this is the shoe print of the Killer? Go ahead and do some vigorous research Smithy as I’m
quite certain Riverside Police didn’t…

I’ve read elsewhere that the sole was also used on "Weinbrenner" non-skid uniform shoes, as well as on "Academy" police shoes. Not just Wing Walkers.
No, I don’t know if that’s correct – but it does spread their use around a bit, if true. *shrug*
Either way, if they’ve not helped catch anyone so far…..

Yes…the sole is what truly identified the shoe. Would be good to know if it was used on other shoes. They seemed to do quite a bit of investigating though. I would sure think they’d have noted that….but….?

Since there were thousands issued, it’s anyone’s guess if he actually was in the military or picked them up at an army surplus store.

The thing about Wing Walkers, though, is that they’re among the most uncomfortable shoes in existence, with very poor ankle support (this as per a friend of mine who wore them while in the Navy). According to him, nobody in their right mind would wear them by choice, especially not a civilian. This leads me to believe that Zodiac was a prior serviceman who wore the Wing Walkers because he was either very set in his habits picked up during his military stint, or too poor to afford anything better.

Ah – the shoe size wasn’t specific, because it was the heel print that was identified.
Makes sense. See here, re-typed for your viewing pleasure from the 1971 DOJ report:

Evidence found at the scene of the crime consisted of a Timex wrist watch with the fastener on one side of the strap torn off and a heel print. The heel print was identified as a B.F. Goodrich waffle design, men’s four-eighths inch washer type half heel. The B.F. Goodrich Products Division of Akron, Ohio, reported that this type heel is only sold to the Federal prison industries at Leavenworth, Kansas. It was subsequently learned that Federal prison industries made low quarter military type shoes and supplied them to all of the armed serviced using black dress shoes. The measurement of the heel indicated that it would have been attached to an eight to ten size shoe. Shoes bearing the same type heel were issued and sold at the PX at March Air Force Base at Riverside.

I’m not arguing in favour of either option as to weather the boots were a ruse or not but it does surprise me no end to hear some people’s assumptions about Zodiac such as…

– Believe that Z parked his own vehicle behind Bryans on a public road for all to see while he was off ‘doing his thing’. This would have to mean Zodiac was a complete idiot.

– Believe without question that Zodiac wore very distinctive boots to the grassy/muddy lake area without thinking about the possibility of leaving imprints behind that would show that he either is, or was a military man. The question of them being a red herring is not considered lol. (Wasn’t it Zodiac that said two weeks later ‘I was leaving fake clues for the blue pigs to run all over town with’ and ‘I shall not tell you what my disguise consists of when I kill’?

I mean he could have bought the wing walkers at a car boot sale. That is just as likely as him acquiring them from a naval outlet. I mean if you were going to commit a serious felony tonight, lets say raid an armoured car and plan to escape by running through a field, would you think "I shall wear my work boots that have a company logo stamped into the sole of them’ and not realize that ‘Hang on, any imprints I leave will give away my occupation?’

Again, I am not trying to claim one more likely than the other but I think that as with Z’s letters, many people take a lot of Zodiac’s claims, actions and statements at face value without questioning it.

– Believe that Z parked his own vehicle behind Bryans on a public road for all to see while he was off ‘doing his thing’. This would have to mean Zodiac was a complete idiot.

He’s done stupider things, though, such as slowly strolling away from a crime scene.

– Believe without question that Zodiac wore very distinctive boots to the grassy/muddy lake area without thinking about the possibility of leaving imprints behind that would show that he either is, or was a military man. The question of them being a red herring is not considered lol. (Wasn’t it Zodiac that said two weeks later ‘I was leaving fake clues for the blue pigs to run all over town with’ and ‘I shall not tell you what my disguise consists of when I kill’?

I mean he could have bought the wing walkers at a car boot sale. That is just as likely as him acquiring them from a naval outlet. I mean if you were going to commit a serious felony tonight, lets say raid an armoured car and plan to escape by running through a field, would you think "I shall wear my work boots that have a company logo stamped into the sole of them’ and not realize that ‘Hang on, any imprints I leave will give away my occupation?’

Again, I am not trying to claim one more likely than the other but I think that as with Z’s letters, many people take a lot of Zodiac’s claims, actions and statements at face value without questioning it.

We’re simply applying Occam’s Razor/the ‘horses instead of zebras’ rule, Chappie. Which is the less unnecessarily complicated explanation for Zodiac wearing a pair of military shoes? Him being a military man. The reason why he may have been so unconcerned about wearing the boots? Same devil-may-care attitude that prompted him to stroll leisurely away from the Presidio Heights crime scene, perhaps. Or maybe, just maybe, he knew that the boots were too general a clue to be of any use. *Thousands* of servicemen wore them. Thousands still do. They could not narrow the odds down by very much.

And Chappie, sorry, man, but by citing the ‘fake clues’ bit, you yourself are taking Zodiac’s claims at face value.

– Believe that Z parked his own vehicle behind Bryans on a public road for all to see while he was off ‘doing his thing’. This would have to mean Zodiac was a complete idiot.

He’s done stupider things, though, such as slowly strolling away from a crime scene.

Seems slowly strolling was quite smart. Had he been running, etc., Fouke & Zelms may have become suspicious.

"And Chappie, sorry, man, but by citing the ‘fake clues’ bit, you yourself are taking Zodiac’s claims at face value."

Fair Point. Although I could argue that the print found in blood in the cab has never been matched to anyone and it’s been 44 years now. So it hasn’t helped at all in solving the case so I could, if I was really stretching the argument (lol) say that it seems we have reason to believe that the print was indeed fake because it’s never been matched to anyone at all let alone a suspect.

I was only pointing out the alternative possibility anyway, I myself happen to believe Z was a Military man and the boots more than likely issued to him but I was just playing devils advocate and suggesting that maybe the boots were deliberately used to allow LE to believe he was a military man as another one of his little games. Just suggesting it that’s all. But regarding Zodiac’s vehicle and him parking behind Bryans, I would be shocked if he parked his own car there behind the Karmann ghia for any passing eyes to see. But, maybe he did, maybe he was as complacent at Berryessa as you correctly pointed out he was in Presidio Heights.

– Believe that Z parked his own vehicle behind Bryans on a public road for all to see while he was off ‘doing his thing’. This would have to mean Zodiac was a complete idiot.

He’s done stupider things, though, such as slowly strolling away from a crime scene.

Seems slowly strolling was quite smart. Had he been running, etc., Fouke & Zelms may have become suspicious.

Yes, I agree Tahoe. I think even though the description was of a BMA, had Fouke seen a WMA spot his Cruizer and summersault over a hedge into a garden I think he’d have got slightly suspicious lol. (Most dramatic, over the top example I could use obviously)

Hmmm, what about if he’d pulled a gun on Fouke and Zelm (if they ever spoke to "him" of course) and stole their cruiser?

Back to footprints!
The Riverside ones were left by a guy who had size 10 feet at the most – the Berryessa ones were 10 1/2.
So is it the same guy? His shoes pinched at Berryessa and made him mad, or is that enough difference that it couldn’t be the same guy?
I’d like to know what the concensus is.

In respect to the footprints at Berryessa – there’s no mention of them trying to follow the footprints anywhere else except between the attack site and the road, either, so they MUST have believed that he parked idiotically behind Bryan, no?

Alex, you can’t suggest that parking behind Bryan’s car at Berryessa would have been idiotic, but that driving up to Inspiration Point after the Stine murder to park (as you said on the other thread) was sensible. That’s not fair!

So is it the same guy? His shoes pinched at Berryessa and made him mad, or is that enough difference that it couldn’t be the same guy?
I’d like to know what the concensus is.

This is why I was posting shoe charts. I still haven’t got my head around the measurements that the Berryessa appear to show and shoe sizes. It’s not clear in my head yet but no matter. That combined with the ‘guesstimate’ for Riverside. There’s also the fact that different manufacturers don’t always make exactly the same sizes and ‘fit’. What was a 10 for one in 1966 could equate to a 10 1/2 in 1969 for another? OR even the same manufacturer may alter their fit depending on, well, whatever really. Fashion, redesign, type of material (if produced slightly differently or even a different supplier).

So in that respect I can’t assign any significance to a 1/2 size difference under those circumstances until I had definite information about the above queries.

Hmmm, what about if he’d pulled a gun on Fouke and Zelm (if they ever spoke to "him" of course) and stole their cruiser?

Back to footprints!
The Riverside ones were left by a guy who had size 10 feet at the most – the Berryessa ones were 10 1/2.
So is it the same guy? His shoes pinched at Berryessa and made him mad, or is that enough difference that it couldn’t be the same guy?
I’d like to know what the concensus is.

In respect to the footprints at Berryessa – there’s no mention of them trying to follow the footprints anywhere else except between the attack site and the road, either, so they MUST have believed that he parked idiotically behind Bryan, no?

Alex, you can’t suggest that parking behind Bryan’s car at Berryessa would have been idiotic, but that driving up to Inspiration Point after the Stine murder to park (as you said on the other thread) was sensible. That’s not fair!

Smithy come on, there is an obvious difference. Lake B he attacked in daylight hours. Lake B roadside with two vehicles parked there will stand out and be unmissable. Inspiration Point is a car park that a parked car would not obviously stand out as noticeable by it’s very presence being there. My point is, nobody is going to look at a vehicle in a car park and think ‘Hmm, wonder why that is parked there?’ as they may do around 5:30pm on the side of a public road adjacent to a lakeside. A ranger could have stopped and inspected who was in the area and why the two vehicles were parked there, for example? That can hardly be used as a comparison with Inspiration point, a car park that he would be using at night, and not drawing attention to, or allowing a potential for, anyone to see his vehicle and identify it.

Trav – I’ll put you down as a "could have been the same guy" believer then.
Alex – tisket, tasket. Berryessa wasn’t a thriving thoroughfare in the middle of the city, so parking your car on it BEFORE you attacked someone wouldn’t have been exciting. (No, I don’t think he did park there, for the record.)
Yes, a policeman could have checked the Inspiration Point car park immediately AFTER a murder was committed in the vicinity. They probably did!
See the difference there?
Not that I don’t enjoy your Devil’s Advocate stance mark you, I do. I’ve been known to try that approach myself, on occasion.
You don’t say if you think both attackers had big feet. My poll isn’t going so well.

Edited ‘cos I can’t spell.