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Hanging round the crime scene….

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(@tomvoigt)
Posts: 1352
Noble Member
 

I don’t think Fouke ever commented on Zodiac’s nose. Just the hairline and the chin

Not if you go by his original description. Nothing about a hairline or chin until Fouke was very old:

 
Posted : May 27, 2021 9:14 pm
(@coffee-time)
Posts: 624
Honorable Member
 

Yes, but he never said anything about the *nose* in *any* source I’m privy to.

 
Posted : May 27, 2021 9:27 pm
Andr3w_0
(@andr3w_0)
Posts: 214
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Yes, but he never said anything about the *nose* in *any* source I’m privy to.

Welsh people do sometimes have longish straight nose, but they’re such a tiny population (3.1 m) that the description is next to irrelevant. Welsh isn’t an identifiable ‘type’ to my mind.

Furthermore, it strikes me that Fouke’s not good at describing things. He confuses a widows peak and receding hairline in the 2007 interview. And "shuffling lope" sounds contradictory

More broadly, it may be that the suspect looked like from he was from the British Isles more generally––rather than say Italian-looking, German, Dutch or Spanish. But the UK is a real hodgepodge. For instance, my recent ancestry is a mix of Lancashire, West of Ireland, Scottish, gypsy traveller and likely some Mediterranean ancestry (my grandad was given up for adoption). Irish people I can identify more easily as having ‘a look’, perhaps because it’s separate island and country.

I noticed that when I moved to North America that both Americans and Canadians both put quite a lot of emphasis on Anglo-Irish-Scottish, etc,. identity. Whereas most people in the UK don’t really have a clue where they’re from, since they were broadly deracinated by the industrial revolution and the tide of Empire, and therefore their ancestors were often economic migrants. This American emphasis on origins might be why the very vague "Welsh" aspect has been seized on.

 
Posted : May 28, 2021 12:29 am
(@veroh)
Posts: 21
Eminent Member
 

At Lake Herman, the Rambler station wagon’s licence plate ends with 962, so 3 is not a factor of it.

However, at the parking lot, presumably the next morning, what is the significance of the "3" above the sheriff’s patrol car?

Is it part of the parking lot, (we can’t see through the car) or is it some kind of post-it tag that got added to the photo?

 
Posted : May 28, 2021 12:39 am
(@tomvoigt)
Posts: 1352
Noble Member
 

Yes, but he never said anything about the *nose* in *any* source I’m privy to.

Correct.

 
Posted : May 28, 2021 12:46 am
Hiking
(@hiking)
Posts: 35
Eminent Member
 

Tom Voigt wrote…his original description.
This report was taken serious at the time by police. Was this suspect being searched for in the days that followed. A door to door search is just not going to work. But the police must have being driving the area and been looking for this suspect. Here we read the looping shuffle. What, wait a minute. Is that a local word. Is a looping walk more like a march or like when a person walks up stairs. And the location does make it look like he was going to the park, like he wrote afterwards.

 
Posted : May 28, 2021 1:49 am
mrsean
(@mrsean)
Posts: 80
Estimable Member
 

Tom Voigt wrote…his original description.
This report was taken serious at the time by police. Was this suspect being searched for in the days that followed. A door to door search is just not going to work. But the police must have being driving the area and been looking for this suspect. Here we read the looping shuffle. What, wait a minute. Is that a local word. Is a looping walk more like a march or like when a person walks up stairs. And the location does make it look like he was going to the park, like he wrote afterwards.

I believe the word is "loping".

"Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas." Albert Einstein

 
Posted : May 28, 2021 2:26 am
Andr3w_0
(@andr3w_0)
Posts: 214
Member Moderator
 

The opposite of a shuffle, then.

 
Posted : May 28, 2021 3:16 am
(@pathfinder)
Posts: 49
Trusted Member
 

“The suspect that was observed by officer Fouke was a WMA 35-45 Yrs about five-foot, ten inches, 180-200 pounds. Medium heavy build- Barrel chested- Medium complexion- Light-colored hair possibly greying in rear (May have been lighting that caused this effect.) Crew cut- wearing glasses- Dressed in dark blue waist length zipper type jacket (Navy or royal blue) Elastic cuffs and waist band zipped part way up. Brown wool pants pleated type baggy in rear (Rust brown) May have been wearing low cut shoes. Subject at no time appeared to be in a hurry walking with a shuffling lope, Slightly bent forward. The subject’s general appearance- Welsh ancestry.”

Read the first sentence and the last.

Rick Marshall’s home at 143 Scott Street was also just 450 feet (by crow) from the murder site of Sergeant Richard Radetich, who was gunned down by three shots while seated in his patrol car. The Zodiac Killer would lay claim to this murder on June 26th 1970 when he mailed the Button letter to the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper. He also occupied a residence at 2821 Bush Street, less than one mile (by crow) from the murder site of Paul Stine.

 
Posted : May 28, 2021 3:34 am
(@coffee-time)
Posts: 624
Honorable Member
 

I noticed that when I moved to North America that both Americans and Canadians both put quite a lot of emphasis on Anglo-Irish-Scottish, etc,. identity. Whereas most people in the UK don’t really have a clue where they’re from, since they were broadly deracinated by the industrial revolution and the tide of Empire, and therefore their ancestors were often economic migrants. This American emphasis on origins might be why the very vague "Welsh" aspect has been seized on.

Well, many of us are descendants of immigrants from the 1800s — fairly recent — maybe it springs from that…I grew up in "Sweden Town"…we have a city literally called "Holland" full of purely decorative windmills…do the Dutch in the Netherlands think we’re nuts? I don’t know…

 
Posted : May 28, 2021 3:58 am
Andr3w_0
(@andr3w_0)
Posts: 214
Member Moderator
 

I get social media adverts everyday asking if I want to be buy a square ft of Scotland and become a Laird, since I moved to Canada!

It turns out that Fouke is indeed a very rare Welsh name. I find it so odd that he draws on his own personal background in order to flesh out the description. It has a whiff about it. I guess perhaps the adrenaline was flowing and he thought he was in hot pursuit. So in the end fudged a description rather than say he didn’t properly take in the suspect’s appearance.

 
Posted : May 28, 2021 4:25 am
(@tomvoigt)
Posts: 1352
Noble Member
 

All that matters is what Fouke meant by his description of Zodiac’s walk. Unfortunately, nobody ever got Fouke to demonstrate the walk, which might have helped. Or, knowing Fouke, it probably would have confused things even more.

Most likely explanation having walked that route a zillion times: Zodiac was walking down hill and probably jumped a bit when he saw the patrol car turn the corner. And that’s when Fouke noticed him. No limp, no loop, no lope, no wooden leg.

 
Posted : May 28, 2021 6:24 am
Andr3w_0
(@andr3w_0)
Posts: 214
Member Moderator
 

Fouke would never admit he was so concentrated on looking for a guy running, that he stopped to ask someone ambling down the hill for directions. It’s just pride.

 
Posted : May 28, 2021 7:07 am
(@tomvoigt)
Posts: 1352
Noble Member
 

If that type of encounter happened then Fouke would have no way to know Zelms wouldn’t come forward without him.

 
Posted : May 28, 2021 7:29 am
Andr3w_0
(@andr3w_0)
Posts: 214
Member Moderator
 

I’ve often fancied that the experienced Fouke advised the rookie Zelms to keep quiet. Yet, they hadn’t worked together before that night, I believe.

 
Posted : May 28, 2021 7:55 am
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