Everything up to CJB is one set of the killers, the canon crimes a cover up for one of the acutal killers. The canon ones copy or link the original crimes but lead nowhere in a giant circle… BRS and LHR are the ‘same’ to show cops these two are the same killer. LB is like domingos to link that up, stine is like davis to link that up… Then the job is done. One of the three killers is dead, but his name clear and the two other killers are already in jail.

Everyone thinks Z is a real killer out there stalking when he/they have returned to their normal lives and just write letters till the heat wears off… Z was a mask to cover up a job being done. The LB was trembling while trying to stab Cecelia… he wasn’t a gung ho killer. He was scarred shitless. Shooting is easy but stabbing is A LOT harder. I don’t think he wanted to do it but HAD to. It’s possible one guy did all the shootings but they wanted a stabbing to show he was a VICIOUS killer and it was 2nd guy’s turn to kill someone. You shoot everyone else or stab one girl – which do you want..? Maybe he wanted to KNOW what it was like to kill so he could WRITE better? Who knows.

I think movie makeup, costumes (fat suit), wigs, props, cars…all taken from a hollywood set were used.

That’s my stupid theory lol

It doesn’t make much practical difference if the Zodiac persona was sincere or not, though it is something to bear in mind following the capture of EARONS/Joseph DeAngelo. DeAngelo ranted to his victims about "the pigs", and he possibly left communications at a crime scene that made him appear mentally unstable and illiterate, when in reality he was a highly calculated offender and competent LE for several years. The misspellings in Zodiac’s communications seem similarly contrived. However, the costume at Lake Berryessa is harder to explain, so I would err on the side of "Zodiac" being the product of a genuine personality disorder and/or psychosis.

It’s the first attack in daylight and by knife specifically, so the chances of witnesses and even survivors is high. The result if successful in at least escaping is either just another murder claimed by the zodiac (the door writing) or at worst a murder witnessed as being straight out of a movie. Either way it would create a media frenzy and create a modern day boogie man. If that was the plan, it worked. Switching to bomb threats after Stine, and Stine’s murder itself, fits in what he later went on to say where we would now end up suspecting any attack as possibly being from the Zodiac if unsolved. It must have succeeded in throwing investigators off course.

Personally I would have hoped each attack was investigated on its own independently and the letters as a different investigation.

Everything up to CJB is one set of the killers, the canon crimes a cover up for one of the acutal killers. The canon ones copy or link the original crimes but lead nowhere in a giant circle… BRS and LHR are the ‘same’ to show cops these two are the same killer. LB is like domingos to link that up, stine is like davis to link that up… Then the job is done. One of the three killers is dead, but his name clear and the two other killers are already in jail.

Everyone thinks Z is a real killer out there stalking when he/they have returned to their normal lives and just write letters till the heat wears off… Z was a mask to cover up a job being done. The LB was trembling while trying to stab Cecelia… he wasn’t a gung ho killer. He was scarred shitless. Shooting is easy but stabbing is A LOT harder. I don’t think he wanted to do it but HAD to. It’s possible one guy did all the shootings but they wanted a stabbing to show he was a VICIOUS killer and it was 2nd guy’s turn to kill someone. You shoot everyone else or stab one girl – which do you want..? Maybe he wanted to KNOW what it was like to kill so he could WRITE better? Who knows.

I think movie makeup, costumes (fat suit), wigs, props, cars…all taken from a hollywood set were used.

That’s my stupid theory lol

Hartnell said he said “I’m nervous” and also “I’m going to have to stab you now.”

I don’t think it matters whether he said Blue Rock Springs Park, public park, or park. The phone instructions are pretty simple, when you consider he is directing Vallejo police in an easterly direction to the only park that exists in that location. The Zodiac Killer stated on Oct 13, "they could have caught me if they searched the park properly". We cannot conclude he didn’t know the area because he failed to use Presidio. Failure to name Blue Rock Springs Park in its entirety, is not evidence of his unfamiliarity with it, or whether he is local to it. Absence of saying something, is not evidence of unfamiliarity with it. I would say as a kid many times "let’s meet at the park". That doesn’t mean I didn’t know its name. How many parks are east of Vallejo Police Station. Only one, on Columbus Parkway – a road he knew the name of. Does his knowledge of the name of Columbus Parkway prove his familiarity with the area, and hence therefore local to it – not necessarily.

Is there anything that he refers to in the letters by name?

Is there anything that shows deep familiarity with the Vallejo area? He knows directions out there. He knows street names in both Vallejo and SF.

I think it’s more likely that Zodiac lived in SF, partly because he says things like the buttons that people are wearing around town and such. (Notably, he doesn’t say buttons around San Francisco, or the buttons you all wear down there) On one of Tom’s videos, it shows that Zodiac apparently copied the font style of the street address on Melvin Belli’s home onto the envelope of the letter he sent him. The numbers on the enveloped are shaped like the numbers on the side of the building.

The phrase "around town" strongly suggests he at least worked in San Francisco.

I have always thought the “over by maple comment” insinuated this as well.

I certainly think he was familiar and probably worked in San Francisco, as he mailed virtually every letter from there. My only problem with San Francisco as his home location is the BRS payphone call. If he lived in San Francisco, then why did he just piss around for 40 minutes before making the call, when he could have used this time constructively and driven back home to San Francisco, making the call somewhere in between, such as Oakland, Berkeley or Richmond. The notion of a killer, likely with blood on his blue shirt, just wiling away 40 minutes for no reason, increasing the likelihood of capture, doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

Remember the dripping pen card. It is postmarked nov 8 but really reads like it was sent just after the bus-bomb letter which was post-marked the 9th. Maybe they were sent on the same day and there a slight delay or one got posted the next day. I’m guessing as he posts the bus-bomb letter he looks for envelopes and stuff to buy, notices the dripping pen card and thinks “lol” and can’t help himself so he buys it and rushes home to add a cipher he had been working on as well, but mails it late in the evening.

In any case it makes me think he definitely lived in San Francisco at that moment.

Sorry if im way off here..but ive been thinking about the possibility of two people involved in the zodiac killings. Some of the writing and spelling is worse than my 7 year old son..but the cypher whilst still simplistic would have taken a reasonable level of intelligence to create..(and of course much harder to decypher)..Is it beyond the sane to suggest Paul Stine may actualy be one of the zodiacs? Apologies in advance for a mad idea.

If he lived in San Francisco, then why did he just piss around for 40 minutes before making the call, when he could have used this time constructively and driven back home to San Francisco….

Probably paid a visit to the Vallejo Police Department to gloat. Good possibility he might even be on friendly terms with some of the officers in there. Knows them from back in the day. Drove for a few blocks in 2 minutes to make the phone call.

IMO, It is no coincidence that out of all the phone booths he could have used he went for one so near the very heat that would be seeking for him. The proximity is ridiculously close for all the other places he could have gone.

Thrill killer upping his thrill. To prove he is better than them and they shouldn’t have rejected him for some job in LE he wanted.

What County was involved for LHR, but subsequently not for Blue Rock Springs, Napa and San Francisco?

This is an interesting topic and there are some interesting theories. I am not fan of multiple killers simply because it would be very risky – having pair of killers who would avoid any suspicion of colleagues, family members, neigbours…. difficult. Also I think they would leave far more evidence (and if you talk about fake alibi or any other “false evidence”, they would do it in much more obvious way).

There is one sentence in one of confirmed Zodiac letters which I think quite possibly hints real identity of Zodiac himself and I would like to know if LE ever dig deep, because that sentence means a lot. “The police shall never catch me, because I HAVE BEEN too clever for them.” Why he used present perfect tense? Why he simply didnt write “The police shall never catch me, because I am too clever for them.” (which could be useful even in context of his at that time actual killing spree), why “have been”? I feel there is some deep and very personal connection between PD and Zodiac himself. Is it possible, that all this was some sort of “revenge” towards LE, because someone had career dream which failed? I think that proper motive for his killings was never really found which is weird. In case of “common serial killers” the motive is usually obvious (and it usually is warped sexual motive, but Stine murder is out of this context), in this case? When you read his letters, the only group of people towards which he shows his despise are police officers… why? No real anger shown against anyone else… 

@richard-grinell good evening Mr Grinell. First time posting on this new website!
In this thread you mention “The notion of a killer, likely with blood on his blue shirt”. Why you say “blue”. Interesting, but not sure if I missed something somewhere along the way? 

Posted by: @sandiland

@richard-grinell good evening Mr Grinell. First time posting on this new website!
In this thread you mention “The notion of a killer, likely with blood on his blue shirt”. Why you say “blue”. Interesting, but not sure if I missed something somewhere along the way? 

The BRS police report described the Zodiac Killer as wearing a blue shirt. What shade we don’t know, but if the killer received blood transfer to this shirt while leaning into the Corvair, it may have been an incentive for him to travel home first, before making the phone call.

@richard-grinell thank you for the info. I Will have to read the full report.