The imposter was very clever, because not only did he attempt to write in similar fashion to Zodiac, use his crosshairs moniker, and structure the wording of the phone call in Napa in similar fashion to the Blue Rock Springs message, he also travelled in a trajectory from Berryessa to Napa to suggest he may have been heading back to Vallejo, where he was under the assumption the first two crimes occurred at. But he was even cleverer than we could ever envisage, because when he read the August 4th 1969 letter transcript in the newspaper, he remembered that it mentioned Zodiac had hung up the phone at Springs & Tuolumne and it had drawn attention to Zodiac and his car. So he thought to himself, I must leave the Napa payphone off the hook to convince people I am a Zodiac who is learning from my mistakes. And I shall do all this for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I don’t even get credit for it. I am risking a death sentence to give somebody else more notoriety.

Richard, I do respect all of the research you do and the info you provide. If I am ever convinced it was the same guy, it’ll be you who does it.

How much of what you mention above was publicly known, so an imposter, who would be expected to do a little research on his idol, might be able to emulate?

The imposter was very clever, because not only did he attempt to write in similar fashion to Zodiac, use his crosshairs moniker, and structure the wording of the phone call in Napa in similar fashion to the Blue Rock Springs message, he also travelled in a trajectory from Berryessa to Napa to suggest he may have been heading back to Vallejo, where he was under the assumption the first two crimes occurred at. But he was even cleverer than we could ever envisage, because when he read the August 4th 1969 letter transcript in the newspaper, he remembered that it mentioned Zodiac had hung up the phone at Springs & Tuolumne and it had drawn attention to Zodiac and his car. So he thought to himself, I must leave the Napa payphone off the hook to convince people I am a Zodiac who is learning from my mistakes. And I shall do all this for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I don’t even get credit for it. I am risking a death sentence to give somebody else more notoriety.

Richard, I do respect all of the research you do and the info you provide. If I am ever convinced it was the same guy, it’ll be you who does it.

How much of what you mention above was publicly known, so an imposter, who would be expected to do a little research on his idol, might be able to emulate?

What greater flattery to your idol than emphasizing their lack of consideration to other phone booth users.

If a small sample size on a car door isn’t adequate to rule him in, it isn’t adequate to rule him out, either. And I’m certainly not a Morrill "true fan" anymore. I just don’t see anything on the door that is wildly divergent. You can find a bunch of idiosyncrasies in the confirmed letters, too. I suppose we should completely ignore the 3-stroke "k" and wavy "f" because his "e" got sloppier as he hunched over more?

If a small sample size on a car door isn’t adequate to rule him in, it isn’t adequate to rule him out, either.

Agreed. The handwriting is inconclusive. Evidence of nothing either way.

Yes, "probably", "possibly" and "may" do come up a lot, because that is the honest approach when assessing the Zodiac Killer and his crimes in circumstances where no definitive proof can be offered. That is the idea behind forums where people speculate and offer their opinion.

There is nuance, in that Zodiac can be proven to be a liar when claiming the Snoozy/Furlong murders, yet also insinuate himself as the murderer of Donna Lass via the Pines card, where no evidence for such a claim exists. I don’t argue that "Aug" was the sole reason for his claiming of the Snoozy/Furlong murders, which is why I looked at the August 6th newspaper, the reasoning behind "by knife" on the car door, the December 19th 1969 phone call, the 4-TEEN in the Halloween card, the connection between the Pines card and Monticello card, the reasoning behind "Monticello" on the card, the 148 character cipher and letter connection to Karl Francis Werner, Snoozy, Furlong and Bilek. The connection between the Monticello card, 148 character cipher and Albany letter. So you are correct, I don’t base my conclusions on just "Aug", I endeavour to link multiple communications to validate or reason an argument.

I thought this was the idea behind a forum in exchanging ideas, so maybe you can explain where I have betrayed this principle.

Never said you betrayed "the idea behind a forum in exchanging ideas"…

Perhaps you should read what I wrote again…

Jesus, did they not teach English in the UK while you were being schooled?

Jesus, did they not teach English in the UK while you were being schooled?

Are you attempting the superiority angle of belittling? I think it would be more productive if you address the links to Snoozy & Furlong through multiple letters, cards and a phone call as I suggested. Rather than adopt an antagonistic approach and attempt to ridicule my education through location, perhaps you may want to investigate some of the above links in the Zodiac case, then you won’t make erroneous statements regarding just an "Aug" link for my entire conclusion. If you are an educated man, why don’t you redirect the obvious contempt into something productive, like researching the above topic more thoroughly.

If I ever find the killer proof Marshall you will be the first to know. Unfortunately, we may have to agree to disagree on this one. Still, I enjoyed the debate.

If I ever find the killer proof Marshall you will be the first to know. Unfortunately, we may have to agree to disagree on this one. Still, I enjoyed the debate.

I take that to mean that everything the Lake Berryessa killer was working with to "prove" he was Zodiac was already public domain. That’s yet another dramatic difference with Shooter Z, who consistently provided proof positive of his deadly work, with details or crime scene blood, that neatly tied the shootings together. In fact, proving his kills was a centerpiece of Shooter Z’s MO.

Thanks for keeping the debate friendly. Perhaps we will debate again.

The Napa County Sheriff’s Department handled the Lake Berryessa crime, and they uncovered sufficient evidence to conclude it was perpetuated by the Zodiac…even if they didn’t show all of their cards So, there’s that.

The Napa County Sheriff’s Department handled the Lake Berryessa crime, and they uncovered sufficient evidence to conclude it was perpetuated by the Zodiac…even if they didn’t show all of their cards So, there’s that.

And Riverside thinks Bob Barnett killed CJB. And Morrill thinks the Riverside missives are Zodiac. There’s that too.

The Napa County Sheriff’s Department handled the Lake Berryessa crime, and they uncovered sufficient evidence to conclude it was perpetuated by the Zodiac…even if they didn’t show all of their cards So, there’s that.

Could it be possible that the police matched fingerprints from Bryan Hartnell’s car to fingerprints from another crime scene?

The Napa County Sheriff’s Department handled the Lake Berryessa crime, and they uncovered sufficient evidence to conclude it was perpetuated by the Zodiac…even if they didn’t show all of their cards So, there’s that.

And Riverside thinks Bob Barnett killed CJB. And Morrill thinks the Riverside missives are Zodiac. There’s that too.

I think that is a bad analogy. Riverside had lots of eyewitness testimony regarding Barnett’s behavior before and after the crime. There was more than enough probable cause to investigate him. The fact that the DNA later didn’t match doesn’t mean that the police didn’t have good reasons to suspect him in the first place. In fact, there is the possibility that he had an accomplice that is responsible for the hair samples found in CJB’s fingernails. There really isn’t a good reason to think that Zodiac didn’t commit the LB attacks, other than hyper skepticism.

If I summarize your case, it’s basically: 1) LB suspect spent too much time with the victims; 2) LB suspect used a knife rather than a gun; 3) LB suspect wore a hood; 4) Zodiac never wrote a letter regarding LB. There is that Bloody Knife of Zodiac letter from Fairfield. I don’t know if that was a forgery or a hoax, but that could reference LB.

For your theory to be correct, someone had to appropriate Zodiac’s identity to commit a very different crime. Yet, the copycat followed Zodiac’s actions after BRS almost to the letter. Then, Zodiac took credit for the copycat’s crime in the Halloween Card. All while neither the Zodiac or the copycat protest about the other taking credit for each other’s crimes. That makes all the sense in the world.

The Napa County Sheriff’s Department handled the Lake Berryessa crime, and they uncovered sufficient evidence to conclude it was perpetuated by the Zodiac…even if they didn’t show all of their cards So, there’s that.

And Riverside thinks Bob Barnett killed CJB. And Morrill thinks the Riverside missives are Zodiac. There’s that too.

Tom’s website suggests that DNA ruled out Barnett in the Bates case years ago. Am I correct Tom?

The Napa County Sheriff’s Department handled the Lake Berryessa crime, and they uncovered sufficient evidence to conclude it was perpetuated by the Zodiac…even if they didn’t show all of their cards So, there’s that.

And Riverside thinks Bob Barnett killed CJB. And Morrill thinks the Riverside missives are Zodiac. There’s that too.

I think that is a bad analogy. Riverside had lots of eyewitness testimony regarding Barnett’s behavior before and after the crime. There was more than enough probable cause to investigate him. The fact that the DNA later didn’t match doesn’t mean that the police didn’t have good reasons to suspect him in the first place. In fact, there is the possibility that he had an accomplice that is responsible for the hair samples found in CJB’s fingernails. There really isn’t a good reason to think that Zodiac didn’t commit the LB attacks, other than hyper skepticism.

Has Riverside ever gotten off Bob Barnett, even after the DNA didn’t match? Are there people in LE who are still suck on Allen? My point is, picking and choosing which LE conclusions to believe, hands down, and which to set aside renders that whole exercise pointless.

If I summarize your case, it’s basically: 1) LB suspect spent too much time with the victims; 2) LB suspect used a knife rather than a gun; 3) LB suspect wore a hood; 4) Zodiac never wrote a letter regarding LB. There is that Bloody Knife of Zodiac letter from Fairfield. I don’t know if that was a forgery or a hoax, but that could reference LB.

For your theory to be correct, someone had to appropriate Zodiac’s identity to commit a very different crime. Yet, the copycat followed Zodiac’s actions after BRS almost to the letter. Then, Zodiac took credit for the copycat’s crime in the Halloween Card. All while neither the Zodiac or the copycat protest about the other taking credit for each other’s crimes. That makes all the sense in the world.

There is way, way more than that of course. And the Halloween card may have been sent by the killer at LB, since it fits well with the whole Tim Holt comic book, the By Knife (which was public information well before the HC by the way) and the childish costume, which itself is reminiscent of halloween. The HC doesn’t have enough handwriting to really compare to confirmed Z letters.

And how did the "copycat" follow Zodiac’s actions after BRS almost to the letter? No pun intended, but that’s my point – there was no letter. A phone call, voice described as Hartnell did, as younger than that of Shooter Z, and the LB caller mis-spoke, as a person speaking from a memorized script might. Stopping to write on the car door was way different as Shooter Z never signed his crime scenes. To elaborate further would just add redundancy.

And how did the "copycat" follow Zodiac’s actions after BRS almost to the letter? No pun intended, but that’s my point – there was no letter. A phone call, voice described as Hartnell did, as younger than that of Shooter Z, and the LB caller mis-spoke, as a person speaking from a memorized script might. Stopping to write on the car door was way different as Shooter Z never signed his crime scenes. To elaborate further would just add redundancy.

I’m not sure how we can say that the voice on the Napa call sounded younger than the voice on the BRS call. Stover never heard the Napa caller, and Slaight never heard the BRS caller. So, you’re relying heavily on Slover’s perception of what sounds "old" and Slaight’s perception of what sounds "young." Two people can hear the exact same voice and come to very different conclusions as to the age of the speaker.

Shooter Z probably never bothered to write on a car door because the cars were so close to the crime scene. At LB, the car was a good distance from the crime scene and visible from it. So, if someone saw him write on the car, they would not assume that he was the killer. If someone saw Zodiac writing on Faraday’s car door with bodies strewn about, there is no doubt that he is the killer.

Are you trying to tell me that the script of the BRS call and the Napa call are not eerily similar? Was the text of the BRS call published in a paper before the LB attack? If so, then your copycat theory has a shot. If not, you’re dead in the water.