I generally don’t speak unless I know what I’m talking about. Still, I am human and not some walking, talking kewpie doll with a built in encyclopedia. There has been a time or two in my life where I have had to say, and with much regret, oh…..long pause….i didn’t know that. In any event, you won’t know if you misunderstood or I’m wrong unless you make the call. But I would suggest reading the thread first.

Soze

In re-reading the statements from the two experts, they essentially agree that the two-digit codes denoted the machine or head, plus the die.

So they are telling us what the codes WERE.

However, it is not clear if they are saying the 2-digit codes were applied to all letters that passed through the machines.

http://postalhistorycorner.blogspot.com … er-in.html

Another excellent find Shaq.

However, it states that: Two parallel bars (trail bars) to the left of the dater characterized the Mark-II canceller.

I’m not seeing those trailer bars (I don’t think) on at least some of the Z letters that contain the 2-digit codes.

However, it states that: Two parallel bars (trail bars) to the left of the dater characterized the Mark-II canceller.

I’m not seeing those trailer bars (I don’t think) on at least some of the Z letters that contain the 2-digit codes.

It’s not there in two of the images of the Canadian postmarks. I don’t know what that means, though. Maybe those are the Pitney-Bowes Mark I’s?

Still, from a printed article ‘The Facer-Canceller Revolution’ in Machine Cancel Forum, October 2007:

Postmaster Summerfield in 1953 made the decision to improve all facets of mail processing, including the development and use of facer-cancellers. The post office solicited bids for this work, and prototypes tested.

By October 1957, when Sputnik was launched, the U.S. Post Office was making decisions to install these devices into a single, operational facility.

The public was introduced to these new facer-canceller machines and mail distribution machines as the October 1959 Detroit Parade of Postal Progress.

The Facer-Cancellers were able to identify the location of the postage stamp, and would send the mail to a properly positioned cancelling device to cancel the stamp. These early regularly installed Facer-Cancellers had a traditional Universal postmark dial. The number and letter "2A" identified the cancelling head that applied the cancel.

This article doesn’t indicate that it is referring specifically to the Pitney-Bowes Mark II, but does refer to the use of a universal postmark dial with the 2-digit codes. It shows one such example, for Detroit 1959, marked "2A" but not showing the P-B Mk II double bars.

Clearly these "universal heads" were in use at the San Francisco Sectional Center Facility by 1969 to about 1971/2, when they changed to include the Zip. So, no 2-digit code at least means not processed at the SCF.

What, then, are the options, hand-cancelling being one of them?

<So, no 2-digit code at least means not processed at the SCF.>

Continued excellent work!

Regarding the other three letters, I guess one thing we can assume now is they were all mailed in San Francisco.

It does seem somewhat unlikely that the Zodiac would have taken the risk of walking the three letters up to clerks’ windows in San Francisco post offices.

Possibly if one entered a post office and dropped the letters in the designated ‘Outgoing’ slot within the post office, the post office itself might have hand-stamped that batch of mail.

There might have been another angle as well. If a letter was similarly mailed within a post office (and/or possibly the freestanding box in front of it) and that letter was specifically addressed to an address within the neighborhood postal carrier route, then the PO workers might have hand stamped them to expedite delivery.

Of the three non-2-digit-code letters, two were to the Chronicle and one was to Belli’s apartment on Montgomery Street. So under that scenario, the Chronicle letters would have been mailed in the post office closest to the Chronicle, and the Belli letter in the post office closest to his residence.

All three would have thereby been hand postmarked and not contained the codes.

I could be way off in my thinking though.

Come on. We have discussed at great length the sectional centers. All mail travels through the sectional center. So now all of a sudden because it doesn’t have a number/letter it had to have been processed at a regular post office? So just disregard everything? Not even thinking that given the size of the population, the quantity of mail being mailed, that they may have had more than one facer canceller; one without a problem and one with.

Now I’m frustrated. Throwing hands in air and done.

Soze

And (lol, sorry to keep pushing it) just one more important observation about the three ‘potentially’ hand-stamped letters.

Firstly, the machine-stamped envelopes. I won’t post the images here, we know where to find them. If you look at the relative positions of where the date stamp and cancellation bars (or ‘slogan’ alternatives) are, they are all nicely aligned – the one in relation to the other – and nicely positioned, where they need to be for the cancellation to catch the stamp.

Now let’s look at the three postmark stamps without the two-digit codes.

1. The ‘Bus Bomb’ letter of 09 November, 1969.

Bang! Bang! Twice, once as cancellation. No machine did that.

2. The ‘Belli’ letter, 20 December, 1969.

This time, I count four bangs. At least! Three as cancellations with increased fading, hence not re-inking the stamp. No machine did that!

3. The ‘Little List’ letter of July 20, 1970.

Not a great image, but. One bang! Right over the stamp, not even bothering with a separate cancellation. No … well, you get the point.

<So, no 2-digit code at least means not processed at the SCF.>

Continued excellent work!

Regarding the other three letters, I guess one thing we can assume now is they were all mailed in San Francisco.

It does seem somewhat unlikely that the Zodiac would have taken the risk of walking the three letters up to clerks’ windows in San Francisco post offices.

Possibly if one entered a post office and dropped the letters in the designated ‘Outgoing’ slot within the post office, the post office itself might have hand-stamped that batch of mail.

There might have been another angle as well. If a letter was similarly mailed within a post office (and/or possibly the freestanding box in front of it) and that letter was specifically addressed to an address within the neighborhood postal carrier route, then the PO workers might have hand stamped them to expedite delivery.

Of the three non-2-digit-code letters, two were to the Chronicle and one was to Belli’s apartment on Montgomery Street. So under that scenario, the Chronicle letters would have been mailed in the post office closest to the Chronicle, and the Belli letter in the post office closest to his residence.

All three would have thereby been hand postmarked and not contained the codes.

I could be way off in my thinking though.

No, Bolt. I don’t think you are off.

The question now becomes, what was it about those three mailings that made it possible – even necessary – for him to change his usual mailing practice? Answer that, and we could really learn something about this guy.

<Now let’s look at the three postmark stamps without the two-digit codes.>

Oh yes, very clear. Common sense would say all three are definitely hand-stamped.

<The question now becomes, what was it about those three mailings that made it possible – even necessary – for him to change his usual mailing practice? Answer that, and we could really learn something about this guy.>

I believe you are right on target. Plenty to ponder here.

The question now becomes, what was it about those three mailings that made it possible – even necessary – for him to change his usual mailing practice? Answer that, and we could really learn something about this guy.

Well judging by the amount of FDR Stamps on the Belli letter the necessity seems to have been to purchase postage. And whilst i note Soze comments about the agreement that all mail goes to sectional centers i also note Soze anecdotal account of working at a post office? canceling mail and presumably sorting mail.

Furthermore, i think it’s foolish to think that there is a clear cut route that all letters follow. Note the date of the Belli letter being 20 Dec, just think about the mountains of greeting cards amongst other letters, packages etc in transit at this time.

It could have been posted at a mail box and mail at this time was sorted locally at a post office for good logistical reasons and to ensure a xmas letter arrives prior to the 25th and the ensuing public holidays.

I believe you are right on target. Plenty to ponder here.

And, don’t you think it’s ironic that we’d put all that hope into thinking the coded postmarks would hold the key, and then we find it’s actually the ones that don’t say anything that are starting to give it up? Weird.

And to think that just a few hours back Chaucer and I were ready to pick up the field and head back to the locker room. Then, thanks to your last minute team talk in pointing out that there’s still something to work with, and here we are in overtime – game on!

I, personally, very much like your idea about looking for small post offices near to the Hearst Building on 3rd and Belli’s apartment on Montgomery. I’ll spend some time with the Directories when I can and locate the best candidates.

I’m remembering something as well — that post offices typically had two inside slots for depositing letters.

One was ‘Local’ and one was ‘Out of Town’.

Even though ‘Local’ technically would mean all of San Francisco, it’s possible that the policy in some post offices was to hand postmark the batches of ‘Local’ mail as they emptied that container.

Or maybe to at least sort the ‘Local’ mail, and hand postmark the letters that were addressed to addresses within that post office’s delivery zone.

I think the bus bomb letter is most interesting, a hand stamped letter on Sunday 9 of November 69, maybe a very small not so busy post office in SF but even i sense nothing conclusively can be deduced after the recent realizations whilst being 50 years away.

And i go on about the Belli letter, in line with Soze on all mail goes to sectional centers, what is to say the belli letter was sent thru and was rejected by the machine because of the amount of postage requiring a human to inspect and stamp.

On that note, the bus bomb letter would have made one thick envelope again the machine might have rejected it requiring a human to intervene.

I think the bus bomb letter is most interesting, a hand stamped letter on Sunday 9 of November 69, maybe a very small not so busy post office in SF but even i sense nothing conclusively can be deduced after the recent realizations whilst being 50 years away.

That’s a good catch. My sense is a Sunday cancellation would have required the letter to be mailed at the main post office, which was Rincon Annex. That’s worth checking into, whether neighborhood post offices were typically staffed on Sundays with mail processors.

And yes, possibly it did go to the sectional facility and was pulled and handstamped because of the odd bulk of the envelope.