Wanted to get some feedback on what others have done with this inconsistency. First of all, I am not one who is quick to jump to frustration or accusatory stances on witnesses. James Owen 3 or 4 feet, well maybe it was more like 10 feet: I understand. The small inconsistencies between Pelisetti’s and Fouke’s accounts of the nights events: I understand. Sure they were trained police officers but they still gonna be running around frantic and full of adrenaline on a 187 call and may not remember the specifics of some events that, in retrospect, may be pretty significant. Anyway, you get the picture. I’ll move on to the point of the post. I look at the PH sketch and I extrapolate that face in my mind to a body and I’m seeing 5’8" 160lbs or 6’1" 175lbs. It’s not the height that I struggle with it’s the weight. That is, to me, the face of a bean pole of a man. A skinny guy. If there’s one overall glaring consistency among the witnesses it is stocky, beefy, barrel-chested, slightly overweight. Maybe it’s an imagination issue in my head. Just seems that beefy or barrel-chested people generally have fuller faces than that sketch. I believe Mageau even said he seemed to have a full face. Not that Mageau couldn’t make a mistake with recollection while being shot in the face. Thoughts?
A guy I knew named Ed Neil is 5’6" and 200 LBS, yet he always described himself as being average in height and weight.
Perhaps Zodiac was described by witnesses as being average in height and weight, and the officer recorded his idea of average.
In other words, had Ed Neil been the cop and a witness told him Zodiac was average, Ed would have written down 5’6" and 200 LBS.
The reality of police work back then and what we imagine should have happened are much different.
A guy I knew named Ed Neil is 5’6" and 200 LBS, yet he always described himself as being average in height and weight.
Perhaps Zodiac was described by witnesses as being average in height and weight, and the officer recorded his idea of average.
In other words, had Ed Neil been the cop and a witness told him Zodiac was average, Ed would have written down 5’6" and 200 LBS.
The reality of police work back then and what we imagine should have happened are much different.
But it seems as though, and correct me if I’m wrong, but all the witnesses almost to a "T" have described him as not average in regards to weight. That’s been the most consistent thing among them to me is that he was stocky or beefy or slightly overweight. No one described him as abnormal or circus-like but as far as weight they all have said a bit on the heavy side. Anyway, that PH sketch just looks like a skinny dude. But, like I said, maybe my head to torso extrapolator in my brain is malfunctioning.
Sketch does look like a thin guy that might have a slight gut and not just you Nemo. Tom have you heard from Ed and does he still keep up with the case? Always like Ed.
A guy I knew named Ed Neil is 5’6" and 200 LBS, yet he always described himself as being average in height and weight.
Perhaps Zodiac was described by witnesses as being average in height and weight, and the officer recorded his idea of average.
In other words, had Ed Neil been the cop and a witness told him Zodiac was average, Ed would have written down 5’6" and 200 LBS.
The reality of police work back then and what we imagine should have happened are much different.
The police work comment I can agree with for sure. Not going to criticize them. It’s just a bummer that they couldn’t do some of the things we can do now days back then. They just weren’t use to the idea of people being murdered by complete strangers for said strangers sick fantasy/delusion/deviancy/whatever.
Yep. Any criticism I could heap on the Po-Po would certainly pale in comparison to the upper hand this jerk had to begin with. Unless they caught the guy red-handed there wasn’t a whole helluva lot they could do to catch a murderer back then if there was no connection what so ever with the victim other than the event of the crime. "I have been too clever for them". Give me a break. Doesn’t take a genius to pick out random strangers in, for the most part, secluded areas and murder them and give the police a difficult time in the aftermath.
Haha that’s pretty good and funny! Yep he shot random people when no others was around and no criminal mastermind like he wanted to be. I think he got very lucky after Stine and messed up. Why he wrote in letters after trying to dispute the evidence LE had on him. Bloody fingerprint and what he look like.
For another topic but why I believe the fingerprint is real and the sketch reassembles him. If the sketch looked nothing like him I bet he could not of been more happy. Wouldn’t have said a word and not wrote he wears disguises. Basically Zodiac was doing damage control after the Stine murder.
Body and face shape vary massively. Being 200-220 lbs doesn’t necessarily mean you have a fat or rounded face. I have seen countless people over 200 lbs with slim faces. Comparing the description at Presidio Heights to Michael Mageau’s observations are pretty meaningless, as Michael Mageau was blinded by a flashlight, and by his own testimony only saw a profile view.
Other than his tenuous description, we only have the eyewitness testimony at Presidio Heights for the actual killer, and apart from an initial discrepancy of age, which was amended, there is little conflict between the teenagers and Donald Fouke.
For another topic but why I believe the fingerprint is real and the sketch reassembles him. If the sketch looked nothing like him I bet he could not of been more happy. Wouldn’t have said a word and not wrote he wears disguises. Basically Zodiac was doing damage control after the Stine murder.
Great points! That’s so simple and obvious. Embarrassed to say I never really thought of it like that. Reminds me of something I read or heard somewhere about how people are very predisposed to believe the written word. We are much more likely to believe something we read over something we hear. Although I never really believed he wore a disguise. Always figured he went from a full head of hair down to a crew cut after LB but always doubted he did much more than that as far as disguises. Maybe glasses, but people start talking about cloak and dagger level disguises and I’m not on board. So, I never really believed the disguise ruse or the finger coating crap, but I never really thought of it as damage control. Just thought of it as BS and agrandizement
The Stine sketch is kind of ambiguous, especially the amended one. I think there’s two ways of seeing it…
One, probably the more immediate is that the cheeks/sides of the face appear pretty "toned", like that of a thin guy, with some shading coming from the bones of the face and a round jawline.
The other way is, well, the opposite. It’s a bit hard to explain but if you focus on looking at the lower part of the face only, the cheeks begin to look rounder and fuller.
Basically I think the shading is party to blame. It’s a pretty delicate job to make look just right and as far as I remember, the sketcher was not a professional police artist, just a regular police who was good at drawing faces. The artist should have shaded the face a little differently to convey a chubby face. Some shading on the front of the face and so forth. Nevertheless, since we know that the person has been described as stocky, it is, after a little bit of focus, possible to see the sketch the way the artist probably implied it to look like.
