morf13, Subject: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:30 pm

Thanks to all the people here doing some great work with the sketches and various possibilities of what Z looked like,i decided to put together a lineup of what Z may have looked like. Having these various looks covers a more broader spectrum of what Z may have really looked like compared to that one sketch that many people have never really been comfortable with. Thanks to everybody that put these together.

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:52 pm

Great work to all involved! This still leaves me thinking that the Stine sketch and the LB sketch is not the same guy. Which leads me to believe that the LB guy was just a innocent bystander that just happened to be at LB near the times of the stabbings. Unless we believe in the team Zodiac theory.

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:31 pm

Can some people give me an opinion of the guy in this 1966 photo when compared to the Z sketches??? He is pretty interesting since he lived in Riverside, went to Ramona HS, and then he and his Dad both lived in Vallejo too.

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:15 pm

He resembles the sketch Imo.

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:24 pm

He resembles the sketch Imo.

I agree, and will dig a bit more

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:33 pm

He resembles the sketch Imo.

I agree, and will dig a bit more

Cool!

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:37 am

Took the amended sketch and emphasized and refined the shading and also added a more traditional ‘crew cut’ with a more defined flat top and shorter sides as described by Sgt. Fouke in Mike R’s interviews with him.

Also, don’t forget this one produced by Rembrandt I think and there’s one floating around by Auth as well, at least I think it was Auth, I’m too lazy to check ZKF.

Qz1, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:50 am

Very good.

Quagmire, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:33 am

Good efforts everyone. Would love for either Fouke or the kids to look at all of these and state which one most closely resembles how they remember Z. That is if they remember at all…

patinky, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:53 am

Morf, your subject looks similar to my eye, but his nose is broader, his ears protrude from the head at a wider angle, but most importantly I don’t see how he could develop the facial "age lines" in three years (1966 to 1969).

One thing that has always puzzled me about most of the Zodiac composites is the lack of lines running from the sides of the nose in a near-perpendicular downward direction toward the sides of the mouth. These lines usually show up about age 35 but rarely before that age.

So, that is my two cents.

Sorry to have had to run out the door on the original de-glassified composite you wanted enlarged last Friday but I was already being yelled at to hurry up. :rabbit: I was thrilled when I checked last night and saw all the great colorized and manipulated composites. Good job to all involved!

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:49 pm

This pic of Kane reminds me of this guy.

[img][/img]
[img][/img]

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:54 pm

Here is a black in white pic with those same famous black horned rim glasses.Reminds me of Rick Marshall in this one. PS. miss that show![img][/img]

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:59 pm

Guess Henry can change his looks to look like Kane and then Rick Marshall. I guess Zodiac could as well and might change my whole opinion on the subject.

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:12 pm

Sorry to go off topic but Morf precede to look forward in you suspect. He look’s good enough and can not wait to hear more.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:13 pm

I’m hoping everyone realizes that the glasses in this pic have been added.

Welsh Chappie, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:27 pm

Guess Henry can change his looks to look like Kane and then Rick Marshall. I guess Zodiac could as well and might change my whole opinion on the subject.

Stitch, I’m going to assume you are being sarcastic and takin the piss with that photo you’ve added under Kanes, i assume from your statement above that its some Henry person. But, sadly, i am not American and don’t recognise him whatsoever.

So weather your intension’s were sarcastic, serious, or any other, i don’t, and cannot know, because i haven’t the slightest idea who that person ‘Henry’ is, Lol.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:19 pm

And a colour version.

Welsh Chappie, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:31 pm

And a colour version.

Ok, now i can’t look at these Presidio Composite sketches without seeing Sgt. Bilko….

A match! Get me the SFPD homicide division on the phone immediately, i have to make them aware of my discovery!

onewhoknows, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:53 pm

Peter Plante

onewhoknows, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:07 pm

Paul Stine Witness Sketch of Zodiac Killer

East Are Rapist Suspect Sketch

Sacramento Serial Killer suspect

Trailside Killer suspect sketch

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:31 pm

2500 suspects and counting looked like that composite. Keep on adding them!

Welsh Chappie, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:53 pm

2500 suspects and counting looked like that composite. Keep on adding them!

Like i said, i am waiting for someone to claim Lyndon B. Johnson was planning the Zodiac the Zodiac crimes, and then JFK found out and was about to calla press conference to inform America, and this is why Lundon B. Johnson had Jack Assissanated. He hired James Brown as the gun-man.

Or, as that very logical person points out in the film Zodiac, he knew who Zodiac was stating "I mean in November 68, John crushes his foot in a work accident, then weeks later, the murders begin….Coincidence? Your the cop, you do the math".

But seriously, there are so many suspects, so many theories, that i think this case has been far to over complicated by people, and i think some people cannot see the forrest because there are to many trees in the way. In other words, be off looking for a link to a radian, or investigating the water connection, and miss what may be staring them right in the face.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:10 pm

I agree Chappie.

I’ll tell you though. This first guy on the left always reminded me of the description the three girls at LB gave:

Dark/black straight hair, parted on the left, neatly combed, round eyes, thin lips…

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport10.html

–I know this has been discussed elswhere. Any chance the guy in the composite below was ever seen in a light blue Chevy?

Welsh Chappie, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:48 pm

I agree Chappie.

I’ll tell you though. This first guy on the left always reminded me of the description the three girls at LB gave:

Dark/black straight hair, parted on the left, neatly combed, round eyes, thin lips…

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport10.html

–I know this has been discussed elswhere. Any chance the guy in the composite below was ever seen in a light blue Chevy?

Hmmm, didn’t the Berryessa suspect have a rounder, more square, kinda large head all round? Kinda similar to how Mike described his attacker, and the Berryessa sketch looks like a thicker set, rounder faced man.

See thats the one thing that bothers me about the difference between the LB sketch, and the wanted poster sketch. I mean, we could dismiss his different hair style and even color as the work of a barber shop. But, the Presidio murder happened two weeks after the Berryessa attack, so, if the descriptions are accurate from both events, then how do you go from a Berryessa suspect who was described as "Bulky, overweight, and weighing 200lbs minimum, more likely 230 and the footprint depth analysis leter claimed that the footprint wasmade by a man in excess of 200lbs, and if my memory serves me, said 220 was probably more accruate.

The Presidio offender was said estimated to between 170-190lbs

Well this may explain Zodiac decision to escape via a main street…he obviously wanted people to see and appreciate his new and more athletic look, now that he’s lost between 40 – 60 lbs in 14 days. When Zodiac said "I shall not tell you what my disguise consists of when i kill". Well, if these descriptions are anything to go by, it would seem he would alter his appearence by starving himself for weeks on end to lose 50lbs for a murder?

Either the descriptions are inaccurate and are of the same indavidual, or, the descriptions are accurate, and the man at Berryessa was not the same man who appeared from within Paul Stine’s Cab and waltzed off calmly down Cherry st

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:50 pm

I think the Berryessa sketch was quite bad and doesn’t quite match the girls description as good as it should have. I didn’t see round eyes. I wonder what the girls today would say if they saw this other composite?

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:23 pm

Guess Henry can change his looks to look like Kane and then Rick Marshall. I guess Zodiac could as well and might change my whole opinion on the subject.

Stitch, I’m going to assume you are being sarcastic and takin the piss with that photo you’ve added under Kanes, i assume from your statement above that its some Henry person. But, sadly, i am not American and don’t recognise him whatsoever.

So weather your intension’s were sarcastic, serious, or any other, i don’t, and cannot know, because i haven’t the slightest idea who that person ‘Henry’ is, Lol.

Yes I was and he is a actor that was in a popular American TV show in the 70’s called Alice.

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:54 pm

I got a photo of one of the suspects mentioned by police in the various reports, will try to put it on tonight, very similar in appearance to zodiac sketch including same hairline. This guy died in San Fran in 1981

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:56 pm

Great looking forward to seeing it.

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:50 pm

I got a photo of one of the suspects mentioned by police in the various reports, will try to put it on tonight, very similar in appearance to zodiac sketch including same hairline. This guy died in San Fran in 1981

AUBREY DWIGHT BAILEY (died in San Fran in 1981), a suspect right out of the police Z files. Looks like that Z sketch to me, this pic is from 1953, but you can see that widows peak hairline too. Now I have to dig back and see why he was a suspect originally

patinky, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:17 pm

Morf, did your fellow die in San Fran but buried in Kansas?

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:18 pm

Looks very good to the sketch and am very interested to hear why he was a Z suspect. Hope you can find out.

Welsh Chappie, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:48 pm

I got a photo of one of the suspects mentioned by police in the various reports, will try to put it on tonight, very similar in appearance to zodiac sketch including same hairline. This guy died in San Fran in 1981

AUBREY DWIGHT BAILEY (died in San Fran in 1981), a suspect right out of the police Z files. Looks like that Z sketch to me, this pic is from 1953, but you can see that widows peak hairline too. Now I have to dig back and see why he was a suspect originally

It seems more difficult to find photo’s that don’t resemble Z’s composit than do lol.

Are we now just adding anyone with shortish hair and glasses? Lol.

I’m joking…well, sort of. I have seen a rapid rise in photos recently that are ‘dead ringers’ for ‘Zodiac.’ Well, no, they may look a lot like the sketch on a poster, but how accurate is that sketch of the man who is Zodiac? I mean the descriptions vary dramatically from one scene to another. They seem at odds completely. (anyone only need look at the Berryessa composite then compare it to the Presidio sketh and they look just about as different as is possible. And if we go by Mike Mageau’s evidence, his attacker has short dark curly hair, this he was adamant and never changed his testimony regarding, this is something that is a fact no questions asked. Then Mike looks at a suspect line up, and points and declares ‘THATS HIM, THATS THE MAN WHO SHOT ME…I WILL NEVER FORGET THAT FACE". Hmmm, this man he picked, is the unfortunate victim on premature male genetic baldness. But of corse, Mike picked out Arthur Allen as Zodiac. This was considered a huge break in this case…a positive suspect ID!

But while the investigators were wearing party hants and congratulating themselves and pondering promotion, there was a little problem with the suspect and ID’ing him process. See, before Mike was ever asked to look at some photos and see of he recognises any as the suspect, Arthur Leigh Allen had been publically named as a Z suspect, and it was general knowledge and his photo or image was fairly wide spread also. Mike knew Allen was the top suspect and what he looked like. If they wen’t to Court with that and Mike as a witness to ID Allen, it would have been jumped on and shredded to bits by a half decent defence lawyer and probably get end in the case being dismissed.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:51 pm

I got a photo of one of the suspects mentioned by police in the various reports, will try to put it on tonight, very similar in appearance to zodiac sketch including same hairline. This guy died in San Fran in 1981

AUBREY DWIGHT BAILEY (died in San Fran in 1981), a suspect right out of the police Z files. Looks like that Z sketch to me, this pic is from 1953, but you can see that widows peak hairline too. Now I have to dig back and see why he was a suspect originally

This is more of what I would expect Zodiac to look like. Glasses or no glasses. He definitely has the hairline and more of a beefy, but not fat or blubbery look ( ) that I would expect Zodiac to have. Of course he could have been bald by ’69, but then probably wouldn’t have been a suspect.

Thanks for sharing morf. I remember seeing his name. Was it in the LB or BRS reports?

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:54 pm

No, we are not adding just anybody. I added a guy that was listed as a suspect in Vallejo’s files, that had even a similar hairline, and lived in San Fran where Z mailed his letters from. By the way, the pic is from 1953, sure he aged a bit. I try not to look at how close somebody looks like the Z sketch when I am researching, but when somebody looks like the sketch, and is already a suspect in Vallejo’s files, isnt that a bonus? I dont understand

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:55 pm

Tahoe, it was BRS

EDIT- Now Tahoe,you have me thinking,I cant remember which report it was from. I think its the one that mentioned Thomas Southern(although he may be in multiple reports)

Also,I wanted to clear up, he died in San Fran, but his last benefit was paid in Alameda=
LAST BENEFIT= 94544 Hayward, Alameda, California, United States of America
Maybe he lived in Alameda county but died in SF hospital? Not sure. I cant find any records of a marriage for him or any addresses in CA. If anybody knows what report he is mentioned in, please save me some reading and point it out to me thanks

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:02 pm

And if we go by Mike Mageau’s evidence, his attacker has short dark curly hair, this he was adamant and never changed his testimony regarding, this is something that is a fact no questions asked.

Not sure where "dark" comes from. The Fincher documentary?

***

Here is the pd report regarding Michael’ Mageau’s statement about "curly" hair:

http://www.zodiackiller.com/DFR10.html

…and the "reddish blond" comment from SF:

Welsh Chappie, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:06 pm

I got a photo of one of the suspects mentioned by police in the various reports, will try to put it on tonight, very similar in appearance to zodiac sketch including same hairline. This guy died in San Fran in 1981

AUBREY DWIGHT BAILEY (died in San Fran in 1981), a suspect right out of the police Z files. Looks like that Z sketch to me, this pic is from 1953, but you can see that widows peak hairline too. Now I have to dig back and see why he was a suspect originally

This is more of what I would expect Zodiac to look like. Glasses or no glasses. He definitely has the hairline and more of a beefy, but not fat or blubbery look ( ) that I would expect Zodiac to have. Of course he could have been bald by ’69, but then probably wouldn’t have been a suspect.

Thanks for sharing morf. I remember seeing his name. Was it in the LB or BRS reports?

I always picture him as being slightly older than this man in the pic. I mean Z’s refering to them as Kids, is suggsting that the writer is an adult. Also he has a Naval background.

I mean i decided to try and use Z’s own letters as a point of reference to determine his likely age range because if you rely on eye witness approximations alone, then you have a low range age of 25 up to the highest of 45.

While his letters certainlly have a child like, devious immature humour tone running through them, this is probably, IMO anyway, just a characteristic of this adult male’s personality. He was schooled in Homophonic Substitution Cipher creation, Radian angles etc. Shows keen interest in opera, specifically Gilbert & Sullivan.

These things alone don’t tend to point to a younger man’s passions/hobbies. If i had to guess based on the letters alone as if the sketches and eye witnesses approximates did ot exist, i’d probably have said late 30’s, early 40’s.

patinky, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:09 pm

Look at the composites and notice the subject’s left eye (viewer’s right). Then cover the nose and mouth on Morf’s subject and notice the left eye (subject’s left eye, not Morf’s).

Seems to me that whoever gave the description for the composites must have mentioned the smaller left eye. Also notice the coldness in eyes of Morf’s subject.

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:11 pm

We can all guess at Zodiac’s interests,hobbies,etc, but the overall description IS what it is. And the best witnesses were a combination of the kids that saw Z in SF and Fouke,although I am not sure how honest he is. Between the kids & Fouke, they had Z at age 25-35 originally, and 35-45 after adjusting. This guy would have been age 36 at the time of Stine’s murder.

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:13 pm

Look at the composites and notice the subject’s left eye (viewer’s right). Then cover the nose and mouth on Morf’s subject and notice the left eye (subject’s left eye, not Morf’s).

Seems to me that whoever gave the description for the composites must have mentioned the smaller left eye. Also notice the coldness in eyes of Morf’s subject.

Those are interesting observations Patinky, but I honestly do not think Fouke or the kids that saw Z, could give tremendous detail that close about his eyes,neither really got a good clear steady look at his eyes to give that much detail,plus it was nighttime

patinky, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:22 pm

Look at the composites and notice the subject’s left eye (viewer’s right). Then cover the nose and mouth on Morf’s subject and notice the left eye (subject’s left eye, not Morf’s).

Seems to me that whoever gave the description for the composites must have mentioned the smaller left eye. Also notice the coldness in eyes of Morf’s subject.

Those are interesting observations Patinky, but I honestly do not think Fouke or the kids that saw Z, could give tremendous detail that close about his eyes,neither really got a good clear steady look at his eyes to give that much detail,plus it was nighttime

I wonder how the composite artist got enough of a description to even draw the facial features? I am thinking that it may not have registered that "oh, by the way, his left eye was smaller" but when the artist got so far and asked "does this look right" and the observer said "no not exactly" and the artist asks for a suggestion that maybe subconsciously the observer did notice the smaller eye.

Well … the idea did have to come from somewhere.

patinky, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:24 pm

Morf is your guy buried in Butler County, Kansas? There’s an Aubrey D. Bailey there with 1933-1981 on his rock.

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:30 pm

Morf is your guy buried in Butler County, Kansas? There’s an Aubrey D. Bailey there with 1933-1981 on his rock.

Thats him, he was born there in 1933 and attended college there too, thats where i found his pic. Couldnt find any high school pics or even what HS he went to

patinky, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:31 pm

Morf is your guy buried in Butler County, Kansas? There’s an Aubrey D. Bailey there with 1933-1981 on his rock.

Thats him, he was born there in 1933 and attended college there too, thats where i found his pic. Couldnt find any high school pics or even what HS he went to

I’ve got to hit the hay but I’ll do some more checking tomorrow. Don’t know that I’ll find anything but I think I can get his parents and siblings’ names. Might be a lead there??????

Welsh Chappie, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:44 pm

We can all guess at Zodiac’s interests,hobbies,etc, but the overall description IS what it is. And the best witnesses were a combination of the kids that saw Z in SF and Fouke,although I am not sure how honest he is. Between the kids & Fouke, they had Z at age 25-35 originally, and 35-45 after adjusting. This guy would have been age 36 at the time of Stine’s murder.

Well if Fouke is being dishonest about stopping the Z, while its inexcusable to claim otherswise, theres at least a clear reason he would have to deny stooping him that night, and i think he is being dishonst and did stop and speak with Z. I can’t see why he would have reason though, be deliberately fabricate/age the composite far higher than he knew the suspect he saw was….Well, only way he may have callto have done is if he recognised/knew the man he saw that night.

Welsh Chappie, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:52 pm

Look at the composites and notice the subject’s left eye (viewer’s right). Then cover the nose and mouth on Morf’s subject and notice the left eye (subject’s left eye, not Morf’s).

Seems to me that whoever gave the description for the composites must have mentioned the smaller left eye. Also notice the coldness in eyes of Morf’s subject.

Those are interesting observations Patinky, but I honestly do not think Fouke or the kids that saw Z, could give tremendous detail that close about his eyes,neither really got a good clear steady look at his eyes to give that much detail,plus it was nighttime

I wonder how the composite artist got enough of a description to even draw the facial features? I am thinking that it may not have registered that "oh, by the way, his left eye was smaller" but when the artist got so far and asked "does this look right" and the observer said "no not exactly" and the artist asks for a suggestion that maybe subconsciously the observer did notice the smaller eye.

Well … the idea did have to come from somewhere.

I’ve always put it down to Don Foukes stopping and speaking with Zodiac. I don’t just believe Z this time about being stopped, i believe him also when he said "2 cops pulled uo + one of them called me over". I honestly believe Fouke had an exchange of a few words with the Z at almost touching distance. Cause Fouke could remeber, in astonishing detail, the cloths Z wore, the type or make, and the colour. He also stated (without any real realistic & logical reason that the man may have been of Welsh Ancestry. This again, i believe, he determined from the speech patterns/possible accent of the male

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:58 pm

I always picture him as being slightly older than this man in the pic. I mean Z’s refering to them as Kids, is suggsting that the writer is an adult.

That photo was taken in 1953, so in 1969 he’d better fit the bill.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:02 am

Tahoe, it was BRS

EDIT- Now Tahoe,you have me thinking,I cant remember which report it was from. I think its the one that mentioned Thomas Southern(although he may be in multiple reports)

Also,I wanted to clear up, he died in San Fran, but his last benefit was paid in Alameda=
LAST BENEFIT= 94544 Hayward, Alameda, California, United States of America
Maybe he lived in Alameda county but died in SF hospital? Not sure. I cant find any records of a marriage for him or any addresses in CA. If anybody knows what report he is mentioned in, please save me some reading and point it out to me thanks

–I got a little mixed up in the order I was reading stuff.

Thanks for the info. I wil find him in the reports.

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:05 am

I got a photo of one of the suspects mentioned by police in the various reports, will try to put it on tonight, very similar in appearance to zodiac sketch including same hairline. This guy died in San Fran in 1981

AUBREY DWIGHT BAILEY (died in San Fran in 1981), a suspect right out of the police Z files. Looks like that Z sketch to me, this pic is from 1953, but you can see that widows peak hairline too. Now I have to dig back and see why he was a suspect originally

This is more of what I would expect Zodiac to look like. Glasses or no glasses. He definitely has the hairline and more of a beefy, but not fat or blubbery look ( ) that I would expect Zodiac to have. Of course he could have been bald by ’69, but then probably wouldn’t have been a suspect.

Thanks for sharing morf. I remember seeing his name. Was it in the LB or BRS reports?

It was actually in the Napa report here-
http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport34.html

It states that SF FBI had previously listed him as a suspect. Odd,I did not think the FBI was involved in the suspect portion of the case,only in the examination of prints & writing?? Anyhow,it seems like a deadend,and seems to rule him out via prints. I still am curious how he came to the attention of SF FBI?? I am going to use his FBI file# for a freedom of info act request on him

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:05 am

Dang…2nd page I clicked on. Must be burned into my brain. I’ve been doing this too long.

I started at the back of Zodiackiller.com’s LB report:

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport34.html

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:07 am

We both posted at 9:05. Funny.

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:08 am

We both posted at 9:05. Funny.

Great minds think alike

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:10 am

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:22 am

Oh,wait a minute, read closely:

The FBI states "Inked impressions of the side,tip,and lower joint areas of the fingers and palm prints, which are not contained in our files, are needed to conduct conclusive comparisons". That means,that they needed more complete sets of prints to rule these guys out as being zodiac. Did NAPA follow thru and get more complete sets on these guys?

Welsh Chappie, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:04 am

Link below to a newspaper article from 69 stating the ammended sketch was released and ‘Witnesses now say he was a white male, about 40 years old, with short brown hair with possible red tint’.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=XP … ller&hl=en

And again, in this newspaper article from 1970, the article states that Z’s age has been given anywhere from 25 to 40

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ni … ller&hl=en

Again, in 1975 the paper claims ‘He (Z) is believed to be between 40 and 50 years old’

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=8o … ller&hl=en

patinky, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:22 pm

Here’s a parent and sibling list for Aubrey Dwight Bailey:

Aubrey Dwight Bailey
Born: Dec 17 1933 In: Gordon Kansas
Died: Apr 16 1981 (at age 47)

Louis Arthur Bailey His father
Jesse Gladys Bailey (born Shafer) His mother

Brothers:
Marion Louis Bailey
Everette Paul Bailey
Harold Bailey
Warren Bailey
Marvin Clifford Bailey
Dwayne Orlin Bailey
Darrel Wirley Bailey

Sisters:
Mary Lois Bailey
Mildred Audine Bailey
Marjorie Nadine Varner (born Bailey)
Melvine Laurel Bailey

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:29 pm

Thanks PATINKY, I have that list too. It didnt help me figure out anything about Bailey,or how he wound up in CA, job,etc. One thing I noticed,was that the FBI presented him as a Zodiac suspect. That is odd since they were not investigating the case, only doing writing & print work

patinky, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:52 pm

Thanks PATINKY, I have that list too. It didnt help me figure out anything about Bailey,or how he wound up in CA, job,etc. One thing I noticed,was that the FBI presented him as a Zodiac suspect. That is odd since they were not investigating the case, only doing writing & print work

Do you know if he had any aliases?

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:19 am

I got a photo of one of the suspects mentioned by police in the various reports, will try to put it on tonight, very similar in appearance to zodiac sketch including same hairline. This guy died in San Fran in 1981

AUBREY DWIGHT BAILEY (died in San Fran in 1981), a suspect right out of the police Z files. Looks like that Z sketch to me, this pic is from 1953, but you can see that widows peak hairline too. Now I have to dig back and see why he was a suspect originally

This is more of what I would expect Zodiac to look like. Glasses or no glasses. He definitely has the hairline and more of a beefy, but not fat or blubbery look ( ) that I would expect Zodiac to have. Of course he could have been bald by ’69, but then probably wouldn’t have been a suspect.

Thanks for sharing morf. I remember seeing his name. Was it in the LB or BRS reports?

It was actually in the Napa report here-
http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport34.html

It states that SF FBI had previously listed him as a suspect. Odd,I did not think the FBI was involved in the suspect portion of the case,only in the examination of prints & writing?? Anyhow,it seems like a deadend,and seems to rule him out via prints. I still am curious how he came to the attention of SF FBI?? I am going to use his FBI file# for a freedom of info act request on him

Having alot of trouble finding anything that shows this guy ever existed.

Found this, but I dont know if it is the right AUBREY BAILEY.

"This defeat led the San Francisco Police to appoint a liaison and to end vice squad ("Sex Detail") harassment of gay/lesbian events. "The Worm Has Turned" was the title of an article by Aubrey Bailey in the 20 May 1969 CHF Newsletter. (I discuss San Francisco gay press coverage of what was then called the "Sheridan Square riots" in my book American Gay.
In San Francisco, there was also Committee for Homosexual Freedom (CHF) picketing in the spring of 1969 of San Francisco businesses that fired gay employees (States Line Steamship Company and Tower Records), of the San Francisco Federal Building in protest of federal discrimination, and of the San Francisco Examiner in protest of its columnist Robert Patterson’s "Dreary Revels of S. F. ‘Gay’ "

Maybe people that looked at Gaikowski know more about this CHF newspaper?

patinky, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:47 pm

Here are some links that I believe refer to you newly found Aubrey Bailey in San Francisco. When you get to the link, use your computer’s "search page for" function and search for "Aubrey Bailey."

http://books.google.com/books?id=XnOevz … 69&f=false

http://www.oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/1 … 0389h/dsc/

Morf, if this Aubrey Bailey is the same as the one in the 1953 photo I think we can speculate that he moved to California to join the gay community. I was unable to find any marriage records that remotely resembled your "Aubrey Dwight Bailey."

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:04 pm

Thanks Patinky. there is another Aubrey bailey,younger than this one I am looking for that was also in the SF/OAKLAND area. I will try to see which is which.

patinky, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:17 pm

Thanks Patinky. there is another Aubrey bailey,younger than this one I am looking for that was also in the SF/OAKLAND area. I will try to see which is which.

Morf, you are welcome. The links were for 1969 events or thereabouts.

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:28 pm

The FBI presented Aubrey Bailey as a suspect,which to me was weird since their job with the z case was to examine prints & writing,and they were not actively investigating the case. I just did a FBI & Military FOIA request on him. The FBI should definitely have him in their file since they presented him as a suspect,and he was in the service for about 1 year

patinky, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:44 pm

The FBI presented Aubrey Bailey as a suspect,which to me was weird since their job with the z case was to examine prints & writing,and they were not actively investigating the case. I just did a FBI & Military FOIA request on him. The FBI should definitely have him in their file since they presented him as a suspect,and he was in the service for about 1 year

Maybe the FBI on behest of the military were inquiring into the gay rights issues and noticed the same things about Bailey that we are now noticing????? Anyway, it will be interesting to see what the FBI may release.

If LE believes Zodiac is dead I wish they’d release the information about withheld evidence. I’d fly to California on my own dime to see that!

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:54 pm

Well this is interesting, by NIN over on ZK.com-

On March 28 1969 in San Francisco, Leo Laurence (the editor of Vector, magazine of the United States’ largest homophile organization, the Society for Individual Rights) called for "the Homosexual Revolution of 1969," exhorting gay men and lesbians to Join the Black Panthers and other left-wing groups and to "come out" en masse. Laurence was expelled from the organization in May for characterizing members as "timid" and "middle-class, uptight, bitchy old queens
He then co-founded a militant group, the Committee for Homosexual Freedom, with Gale Whittington–a young man who had been fired from States Steamship Company for being openly gay, after his photo appeared in the Berkley Barb, next to the headline "HOMOS, DON’T HIDE IT!", the revolutionary article by Leo Laurence. The same month Carl Wittman, a member of CHF, began writing Refugees from Amerika: A Gay Manifesto, which would later be described as "the bible of Gay Liberation". It was first published in the San Francisco Free Press and distributed nation-wide, all the way to New York City, as was the Berkeley Barb with Leo’s stories on CHF’s Gay Guerilla militant initiatives.

The Aubrey Bailey that wrote the gay newsletter article wrote it for the CHF, committee for homosexual freedom. I think the thread over there was regarding the timeline of Zodiac’s deadline to be published,it coincided with a CHF event or something,and they speculated, it might be something Gaik would be interested in,but if teh Bailey that wrote it is the right guy,he would have interest in it too of course. Maybe they have been looking at the wrong Homosexual suspect? Bailey wrote a piece called ‘THE WORM HAS TURNED’.

By the way,I mailed away for Aubrey Bailey’s death cert to find out how he died. I am thinking,since he died in 1981, in San Fran, he may have died from Aids.There were alot of deaths from Aids there at that time.

To anybody here that has looked at Gaik as a suspect, has the name Aubrey Bailey ever come up?

patinky, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:09 pm

Maybe there was more to the story put out in the 60s about Zodiac being a "latent homosexual."

morf13, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:29 pm

I just heard from the guy that started the CHF, and he vaguely remembers Aubrey bailey,but wanted to go back and check his files and archive. He did not recognize the 1953 photo of Aubrey Bailey

patinky, Subject: Re: Various Zodiac Looks & Sketches Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:50 pm

I just heard from the guy that started the CHF, and he vaguely remembers Aubrey bailey,but wanted to go back and check his files and archive. He did not recognize the 1953 photo of Aubrey Bailey

I’ll be on pins and needles til then!