There are two options;
[1] http://zodiackillerfacts.com/main/myste … aul-stine/

[2] "At this time, 1 went downstairs to get a better look at what was happening, while one of the kids upstairs called the Police. Downstairs, the lights were off, so 1 knew he could not be seen from the outside. He got close to the window and watched his actions. He was shortly joined by 2. They both watched and observed in silence as Z pushed the driver to an upright position behind the steering wheel, exited the car and walked around the rear of the car and opened the drivers door. Stine had fallen over onto the seat and Z pulled him back up into the seated position and had some difficulty keeping him upright. Once upright, he was seen to have a rag, or something like a handkerchief and began to wipe down the door area and leaning over the driver, part of the dashboard. Whe he was finished, Z calmly walked to Cherry St. and walked North."
http://www.zodiackiller.net/viewtopic.p … =30#p33570

Some will say "fake clues", others will say maybe he leaned up against the car at some point…like, maybe he walked up and steadied himself with his hand while talking to Paul about where he needed to go.

Reading Hunted(the zodiac murders) by Mark Hewitt. Am not new to case as I have been following it for years the same as many others. Anyway in reading about the Stine murder which basically goes over the same facts that are known with a little more insight something struck me. Never gave it much thought before but wondered why Zodiac was wiping all over the exterior of cab. Most people would have touched probably one or two exterior handles on the outside of car. Can’t figure why there would be prints on other outside surfaces all over car. Perhaps something is lost in the reporting of the witnesses or some other explanation. Can someone give me their understanding of this situation.

charliemartin

I guess sometimes my reading comprehension fails me. I had always thought that Z did this manipulation of Stine’s body from the passenger side.
If I think about leaning in the driver’s door in an attempt to pull the body back upright, placing my left hand on the dash while pulling with my right hand seems an obvious thing to do.
Wasn’t some of the "print eradication" done on the dash?

Also, if the collecting of the piece of shirt was done with the body in that same position, Z likely wouldn’t have gotten much blood on himself.

There are two options;
[1] http://zodiackillerfacts.com/main/myste … aul-stine/

[2] "At this time, 1 went downstairs to get a better look at what was happening, while one of the kids upstairs called the Police… Once upright, he was seen to have a rag, or something like a handkerchief and began to wipe down the door area and leaning over the driver, part of the dashboard. Whe he was finished, Z calmly walked to Cherry St. and walked North."
http://www.zodiackiller.net/viewtopic.p … =30#p33570

From the way this is recounted, it sounds like Z was wiping down the inside of the door.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I had always thought that if Z had left prints on the outside of the cab, it probably meant the subsequent murder had been unplanned. But if Z had been careful not to leave prints before the shooting, and only did so as he was rearranging the crime scene afterwards, that leaves open the possibility of premeditation.

The big question is, why pose the body? He didn’t do that with his other confirmed victims (if he had he might not have left two survivors.) Propping Paul up wasn’t likely to fool anyone into thinking there was no problem, with blood all over Paul and a hole in his head; even more conspicuous if he’s in the sitting position rather than lying on the seat, out of easy sight. For that matter, wasn’t his body slumped back over when it was found, anyway?

The only conclusion I can come up with is that Zodiac was nuts. Not a TK or Mr. X kind, but someone who, literally, was kind of dumb and had poor or irrational judgement. Wasting time propping up a dead body which wasn’t going to stay propped up anyway was, simply put, really dangerous and really stupid, and for no apparent gain.

[The only conclusion I can come up with is that Zodiac was nuts. Not a TK or Mr. X kind, but someone who, literally, was kind of dumb and had poor or irrational judgement. Wasting time propping up a dead body which wasn’t going to stay propped up anyway was, simply put, really dangerous and really stupid, and for no apparent gain.

I quite agree with this post: the Zodiac was no genius. His thought process was probably that nobody could possibly have heard the gunshot so he’d pose the body as sitting up and let it be discovered that way, as a grim stab at humor. (He thought himself hilarious.) Of course, everyone knows that guns are really freakin’ loud and the scene was swarming with cops shortly thereafter.

Posing bodies is definitely a signature element that you find in a lot of organized serial killers, particularly sexually motivated ones with female victims. However, very seldom is this kind of thing undertaken in time-sensitive setting, in situ where a victim was killed, and with a gun being the murder weapon. Zodiac was a definite mix of organized and disorganized traits.

I’m confused about "pose the body". Seems Zodiac grabbed some of Paul’s items and he slumped onto the seat.

http://zodiackiller.com/StineReport1.html

I’m confused about "pose the body". Seems Zodiac grabbed some of Paul’s items and he slumped onto the seat.

http://zodiackiller.com/StineReport1.html

Thanks for clearing that up for me Tahoe–I was getting a bit confused myself.

The Robbins teenagers gave a more detailed account of the night’s events in a later interview that indicated ‘the posing of the body’. This account explains the right hand blooded fingerprint impressions on the dividing panel between the driver side door and left rear passenger door. The short version in the police report doesn’t. This account is the only logical explanation for the blooded prints "At this time, Lindsey went downstairs to get a better look at what was happening, while one of the kids upstairs called the police. Downstairs, the lights were off, so Lindsey knew he could not be seen from the outside. He got close to the window and watched his actions. He was shortly joined by Rebecca. They both watched and observed in silence as Zodiac pushed the driver to an upright position behind the steering wheel, exited the car and walked around the rear of the car and opened the driver’s door. Stine had fallen over onto the seat and Zodiac pulled him back up into the seated position and had some difficulty keeping him upright. Once upright, he was seen to have a rag, or something like a handkerchief and began to wipe down the door area and leaning over the driver, part of the dashboard. When he was finished, Zodiac calmly walked to Cherry St. and walked north."
The teenagers clearly stated, that after he rounded the taxicab, he opened the driver side door. But to pull Paul Stine back into an upright position he needs stability and leverage. This would be attained by bracing your right hand on the dividing panel between the driver side and rear door, to pull Paul Stine upright using your left hand.

The Robbins teenagers gave a more detailed account of the night’s events in a later interview that indicated ‘the posing of the body’. This account explains the right hand blooded fingerprint impressions on the dividing panel between the driver side door and left rear passenger door. The short version in the police report doesn’t. This account is the only logical explanation for the blooded prints "At this time, Lindsey went downstairs to get a better look at what was happening, while one of the kids upstairs called the police. Downstairs, the lights were off, so Lindsey knew he could not be seen from the outside. He got close to the window and watched his actions. He was shortly joined by Rebecca. They both watched and observed in silence as Zodiac pushed the driver to an upright position behind the steering wheel, exited the car and walked around the rear of the car and opened the driver’s door. Stine had fallen over onto the seat and Zodiac pulled him back up into the seated position and had some difficulty keeping him upright. Once upright, he was seen to have a rag, or something like a handkerchief and began to wipe down the door area and leaning over the driver, part of the dashboard. When he was finished, Zodiac calmly walked to Cherry St. and walked north."
The teenagers clearly stated, that after he rounded the taxicab, he opened the driver side door. But to pull Paul Stine back into an upright position he needs stability and leverage. This would be attained by bracing your right hand on the dividing panel between the driver side and rear door, to pull Paul Stine upright using your left hand.

Can you direct me to a link for this later interview?

Thanks!

Hi, I bet you he thought Paul Stine wrote something down about him on his log book that could identify him at where he was at. So he went into the front seat and looked for the logbook and found it and ripped the page out. (So on the next page should be the imprint of his pick up location.) Then he put his hands accidently on the dash and like the witnesses said he was wiping it down before he left.

The Robbins teenagers gave a more detailed account of the night’s events in a later interview that indicated ‘the posing of the body’. This account explains the right hand blooded fingerprint impressions on the dividing panel between the driver side door and left rear passenger door. The short version in the police report doesn’t. This account is the only logical explanation for the blooded prints "At this time, Lindsey went downstairs to get a better look at what was happening, while one of the kids upstairs called the police. Downstairs, the lights were off, so Lindsey knew he could not be seen from the outside. He got close to the window and watched his actions. He was shortly joined by Rebecca. They both watched and observed in silence as Zodiac pushed the driver to an upright position behind the steering wheel, exited the car and walked around the rear of the car and opened the driver’s door. Stine had fallen over onto the seat and Zodiac pulled him back up into the seated position and had some difficulty keeping him upright. Once upright, he was seen to have a rag, or something like a handkerchief and began to wipe down the door area and leaning over the driver, part of the dashboard. When he was finished, Zodiac calmly walked to Cherry St. and walked north."
The teenagers clearly stated, that after he rounded the taxicab, he opened the driver side door. But to pull Paul Stine back into an upright position he needs stability and leverage. This would be attained by bracing your right hand on the dividing panel between the driver side and rear door, to pull Paul Stine upright using your left hand.

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=402
Can you direct me to a link for this later interview?

Thanks!

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=402

Mr. Grinell,

I went to the link provided but I could not find the report. All I found was a post by James Dean, described as a former cold case Vallejo Police Officer, who was relaying his recollection of his interview with the Robbins children. It cannot be used as fact in the investigation unless there is an official police report supporting the interview. I’ll look around but it could save me some time if there is one already posted somewhere. I would really be appreciative.

I do not doubt Mr. Dean’s integrity but I always question peoples recollections, including my own. Good examples are the recollections of Bill Baker concerning the Domingo’s/Edwards double homicide. They often changed slightly enough to re route the direction that online sleuths were taking. And because of his background as a retired Detective, people often took what he said as fact, discounting his previous comments which are probably impossible to locate now. This doesn’t make Bill Baker untruthful, only forgetful. The most accurate recollection is a report taken at the time of the initial investigation.

Thanks!

The reason I believe the Robbins statement on the link, is their movements were effectively corroborated by Pelissetti in the 2007 documentary. In addition their recollection of the suspect pulling Paul Stine back to an upright position is the only logical explanation for blooded fingerprints being located on the dividing panel on the left side of the taxicab. Something the police report simply doesn’t explain. It is not an official police report statement, but as yet I have seen no other reasonable explanation for these blooded fingerprints. I believe it, others may not. That’s perfectly fine.

The reason I believe the Robbins statement on the link, is their movements were effectively corroborated by Pelissetti in the 2007 documentary. In addition their recollection of the suspect pulling Paul Stine back to an upright position is the only logical explanation for blooded fingerprints being located on the dividing panel on the left side of the taxicab. Something the police report simply doesn’t explain. It is not an official police report statement, but as yet I have seen no other reasonable explanation for these blooded fingerprints. I believe it, others may not. That’s perfectly fine.

Awesome! Thanks!