Yah..what the kids had at best was a guy with a crew-cut wearing horn-rimmed glasses and a dark jacket with dark pants. No lazy eyes, no wrinkles, no small nose, etc.

Age? A best guess.

Maybe his buddy Graysmith kept putting it in his head it can’t be right cause the sketch doesn’t show a severely balding male that was around 300lbs.

Could be, could be.

But I do believe Toschi expressed doubts about it pretty early on – as in, before his buddy became obsessed with his severely balding suspect.

Let me just say, though, that I don’t think Toschi’s comment is definite in any sort of way – but if I’m right he was making the comment as a general sort of point more than a specific one, if that makes sense. Meaning, he didn’t attach too much importance to a composite created under the given circumstances – the latter being mainly about giving people a very general idea about what the suspect looked like, rather than a specific idea as to his features (which it would be…well, miraculous if A) the witnesses had been able to catch at that distance, in that light and B) the witnesses had been able to communicate to the sketch artist so well that he could produce an accurate likeness of the man). Not least given the fact that the sketch artist wasn’t, by all accounts, very good – to be blunt. The sketch is anatomically dubious, for one thing. Unless Z had facial features, proportions and ratios which have to be labeled extremely rare if not unprecedented in historical records, the composite is obviously not the likeness of the actual man no matter what way you look at it.

Thanks Norse for replying back and appreciate that and you make some decent points but may have to disagree on a few though. As for witness sketches there has been a lot of cases where most only seen the suspect very limited and mostly in the dark ,not much better then the Zodiac case. Seems like those witness usually get together and come to a agreement with a composite and of course when the suspect is caught it’s not identical to the sketch but has a decent resemblance for sure.

Oh sorry earlier I was just taking a jab at ALA being a prime suspect when he doesn’t come close to resembling any of the sketches whatsoever and hard to take him as a serious suspect from the get go! Then there is all the other important things that eliminate him. Anyhow I stand by my statement about Fouke since this guy would be trained for detail and that alone makes me think he is a better eyewitness then the others that was not.

[ I don’t think his ACTUAL age, whether a little younger than 30 or a little older than 40, would hurt the investigation. This is why LE does not go by visuals alone.

Okay, so we have two different composite sketches. Do we have two Zodiacs? Analysing both drawings I can positively state that both faces are completely different in appearance and age. This is the problem with the case. There are too many variables and no one can pinpoint the correct solution. If we could, we would have the perpetrator. Over the years, the case has been built up on "assumptions" by all concerned parties.

Let me see… Arthur Lee Allen. Jack Tarrance, George Hill Hodel, Louis Myers, George Russell Tucker, Guy Ward Hendrickson, Earl Van Best Jr., and on and on and on…. The list is so long and memorable that a book could be written about it. Every single one of those individuals differs in age and appearance and any of them could have been the Zodiac. Moreover, that’s what those who put their names forward want us to believe.

Not a single shred of compelling evidence has ever come forward either by the police or members of the community. The phantasmoric syndrome is all around us. Hell, even I could be the Zodiac killer. Hmm… Hadn’t tought of that. I might write me a book!

Blind Bat seems to be on the correct path. The smelly red herring possibility is a plausible one. What better way to send the world population on a treasure hunt whilst the Pirate sits back and enjoys the show knowing very well where the real treasure is hidden. This is exactly what might have taken place. Conventional methods of police approach towards the case have systematically failed, so why not STOP the process, take a deep breath, and look at different methods. Unfortunately, and for the police, they have been trained to follow correct procedures hence their non-committal to even consider something outside the norm.

I don’t know the answer, and don’t have a POI, but would certainly be prepared to look down different streets.

Thank you Davidfrancis

There’s a show in the chat room for those
that like a late one!
Sorry, I didn’t furnish any milk and cookies
in there! Enjoy!

Blind Bat

The red herring idea has been considered for years and years…one even offered by Zodiac himself. I think that is a given.

Thank you Davidfrancis

There’s a show in the chat room for those
that like a late one!
Sorry, I didn’t furnish any milk and cookies
in there! Enjoy!

Blind Bat

You’re most welcome Blind Bat. Fortunately I’m on a diet so sugary things are out of the question. But I will go over and review the cinematographic presentation.

Let me see… Arthur Lee Allen. Jack Tarrance, George Hill Hodel, Louis Myers, George Russell Tucker, Guy Ward Hendrickson, Earl Van Best Jr., and on and on and on…. The list is so long and memorable that a book could be written about it. Every single one of those individuals differs in age and appearance and any of them could have been the Zodiac. Moreover, that’s what those who put their names forward want us to believe.

The last part being the salient one, I would say. It’s true, of course, that the Z case is a bit of a tangled mess in many ways – and a frustrating one to get one’s head around – but the numerous suspects who have been entertained at various times (largely by amateurs) aren’t a true reflection of the complexity of the case: Most, if not all, of these suspects aren’t good or even plausible ones. They’re just the pet projects of amateurs who have lost all sense of objectivity along the way – or even the fabrications of people whose main interest is to make money.

It’s important to keep the cards apart in the Z case. The actual crimes are there, with their details and their facts. It’s not all smoke and mirrors. My advice would be to stick to the facts as much as possible. The factual aspects of the case have not been exhausted, so to speak – not in my opinion, at least.

Let me see… Arthur Lee Allen. Jack Tarrance, George Hill Hodel, Louis Myers, George Russell Tucker, Guy Ward Hendrickson, Earl Van Best Jr., and on and on and on…. The list is so long and memorable that a book could be written about it. Every single one of those individuals differs in age and appearance and any of them could have been the Zodiac. Moreover, that’s what those who put their names forward want us to believe.

The last part being the salient one, I would say. It’s true, of course, that the Z case is a bit of a tangled mess in many ways – and a frustrating one to get one’s head around – but the numerous suspects who have been entertained at various times (largely by amateurs) aren’t a true reflection of the complexity of the case: Most, if not all, of these suspects aren’t good or even plausible ones. They’re just the pet projects of amateurs who have lost all sense of objectivity along the way – or even the fabrications of people whose main interest is to make money.

It’s important to keep the cards apart in the Z case. The actual crimes are there, with their details and their facts. It’s not all smoke and mirrors. My advice would be to stick to the facts as much as possible. The factual aspects of the case have not been exhausted, so to speak – not in my opinion, at least.

Norse—you are way too logical!!! We need more of this.

Let me see… Arthur Lee Allen. Jack Tarrance, George Hill Hodel, Louis Myers, George Russell Tucker, Guy Ward Hendrickson, Earl Van Best Jr., and on and on and on…. The list is so long and memorable that a book could be written about it. Every single one of those individuals differs in age and appearance and any of them could have been the Zodiac. Moreover, that’s what those who put their names forward want us to believe.

The last part being the salient one, I would say. It’s true, of course, that the Z case is a bit of a tangled mess in many ways – and a frustrating one to get one’s head around – but the numerous suspects who have been entertained at various times (largely by amateurs) aren’t a true reflection of the complexity of the case: Most, if not all, of these suspects aren’t good or even plausible ones. They’re just the pet projects of amateurs who have lost all sense of objectivity along the way – or even the fabrications of people whose main interest is to make money.

It’s important to keep the cards apart in the Z case. The actual crimes are there, with their details and their facts. It’s not all smoke and mirrors. My advice would be to stick to the facts as much as possible. The factual aspects of the case have not been exhausted, so to speak – not in my opinion, at least.

You are SO right, Well spoken Norse

The last part being the salient one, I would say. It’s true, of course, that the Z case is a bit of a tangled mess in many ways – and a frustrating one to get one’s head around – but the numerous suspects who have been entertained at various times (largely by amateurs) aren’t a true reflection of the complexity of the case

I await in excitation for the day when the police put forward a name of whom they believe could be responsible for the slayings or anyone for that matter. I might as well begin digging my grave at a rate of two soup spoonfuls per day. I should be finished let’s say…100 years from now. The Zodiac case is a tangled mess due to human factor and frustrating due to the "supposedly" Zodiac case buffs, who are in it for their own glory and money, and will not deviate from their "supposedly" logical approach to the case. I have read folks different views on the case and cannot believe how certain individuals keep on riding Napoleon’s white horse without stopping and analysing the war zone before deciding to go on a charge. No one, and I mean no one, is prepared to deviate ever so slightly from a standard and somewhat logical approach towards the case, police included. You are correct Norse when you use the term "complexity" because that is exactly what the case is…A complex web of intellectual instruction. I do not have a POI, but sense there is more to the letters and cards than meets the common eye. I’m lead to believe that some of the Zodiac’s letters contain bits and pieces of yesteryear’s heroes. I’m able to notice the writing techniques of Arthur Doyle, present in some of the Zodiac’s correspondence. There could be more, but I’m not certain. This is the intellectual instruction I speak of, and one that many individuals are not prepared to accept, including the police.

Most, if not all, of these suspects aren’t good or even plausible ones. They’re just the pet projects of amateurs who have lost all sense of objectivity along the way – or even the fabrications of people whose main interest is to make money.

Bravo! Money has driven many of these folks to fabricate "shadows" for their own personal gain. On the other hand, a vast majority of folks are in it for their personal employment and with the hope of one day cracking the case. However, some folks have definitely lost their marbles along the way. Can we blame them? Who is right and who is wrong in this most spellbinding affair? There might be folks out there who in the eccentric way have perhaps unearthed some true factual references about the case.

It’s important to keep the cards apart in the Z case. The actual crimes are there, with their details and their facts. It’s not all smoke and mirrors. My advice would be to stick to the facts as much as possible. The factual aspects of the case have not been exhausted, so to speak – not in my opinion, at least.

You are correct. The crimes, details and their facts, are all present in a plain explanatory way. All we need to do is place the puzzle pieces together, and a true picture will emerge.

Very good topic!

If we go by the voice, Hartnell & Slaight describe it as sounding early 20’s, while Slover described it as mature. I think Hartnell had the best idea for what Z sounded like after talking to him in person for the amount of time. When it comes to identifying somebody, I think voice would have to be second to appearance. Z described early on by Mageau as young, by the Stine witnesses as in 20’s, and by Fouke as older. I think opinions are all over the place. Essentially, we are left looking for a white guy in his early 20’s to mid 40’s, stocky to chubby, and maybe wearing glasses, maybe not. It’s all over the place.
One interesting thing is how very specific Fouke described the widow’s peak hairline on Zodiac. That could be a major clue, and seems like something that would be hard to fake, whatever his age.

Very good topic!

If we go by the voice, Hartnell & Slaight describe it as sounding early 20’s, while Slover described it as mature. I think Hartnell had the best idea for what Z sounded like after talking to him in person for the amount of time. When it comes to identifying somebody, I think voice would have to be second to appearance. Z described early on by Mageau as young, by the Stine witnesses as in 20’s, and by Fouke as older. I think opinions are all over the place. Essentially, we are left looking for a white guy in his early 20’s to mid 40’s, stocky to chubby, and maybe wearing glasses, maybe not. It’s all over the place.
One interesting thing is how very specific Fouke described the widow’s peak hairline on Zodiac. That could be a major clue, and seems like something that would be hard to fake, whatever his age.

A person of interest!
The widows peak.
20’s, stocky, pleated pants, 185 lb. 5’9 (glasses -(part time)
monotone narration, ego reaches to the stars.
Know’s all names listed in the letters.
32yrs. old when taxi driver was killed.

Blind Bat

Very good topic!

If we go by the voice, Hartnell & Slaight describe it as sounding early 20’s, while Slover described it as mature. I think Hartnell had the best idea for what Z sounded like after talking to him in person for the amount of time. When it comes to identifying somebody, I think voice would have to be second to appearance. Z described early on by Mageau as young, by the Stine witnesses as in 20’s, and by Fouke as older. I think opinions are all over the place. Essentially, we are left looking for a white guy in his early 20’s to mid 40’s, stocky to chubby, and maybe wearing glasses, maybe not. It’s all over the place.
One interesting thing is how very specific Fouke described the widow’s peak hairline on Zodiac. That could be a major clue, and seems like something that would be hard to fake, whatever his age.

A person of interest!
The widows peak.
20’s, stocky, pleated pants, 185 lb. 5’9 (glasses -(part time)
monotone narration, ego reaches to the stars.
Know’s all names listed in the letters.
32yrs. old when taxi driver was killed.

Blind Bat

It takes more than a hairline to make a Suspect, can we see the rest of the pic?

Very good topic!

If we go by the voice, Hartnell & Slaight describe it as sounding early 20’s, while Slover described it as mature. I think Hartnell had the best idea for what Z sounded like after talking to him in person for the amount of time. When it comes to identifying somebody, I think voice would have to be second to appearance. Z described early on by Mageau as young, by the Stine witnesses as in 20’s, and by Fouke as older. I think opinions are all over the place. Essentially, we are left looking for a white guy in his early 20’s to mid 40’s, stocky to chubby, and maybe wearing glasses, maybe not. It’s all over the place.
One interesting thing is how very specific Fouke described the widow’s peak hairline on Zodiac. That could be a major clue, and seems like something that would be hard to fake, whatever his age.

A person of interest!
The widows peak.
20’s, stocky, pleated pants, 185 lb. 5’9 (glasses -(part time)
monotone narration, ego reaches to the stars.
Know’s all names listed in the letters.
32yrs. old when taxi driver was killed.

Blind Bat

It takes more than a hairline to make a Suspect, can we see the rest of the pic?

One interesting thing is how very specific Fouke described the widow’s peak hairline on Zodiac. That could be a major clue, and seems like something that would be hard to fake, whatever his age.

What else did he describe?

I connected the composites,
eye witness accounts and a monotone voice to
this widows peak.
And the characters in the Zodiac’s list described
in his letters!

Have any of the other suspects been closer?

Spokes don’t spin without a hub.

Morf, I’m past the red herrings.
Just saying.

Blind Bat

The War Machine is in the chat room.

Blind Bat