I’m not sure why my head keeps returning to this idea posted on the old message board but it woke me from a sound sleep. I still think it’s one of the best non-technical cipher observations I’ve seen. I know not everyone is into reading cipher threads but I think it deserves more attention than it got the first time around.
http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … 24-44-rows
Jem’s observation was that the 340 and 408 ciphers combined would fit precisely onto two full pieces of standard graph paper. A 1/2 inch ruled piece of 8 1/2 X 11 graph paper yields a 17 X 22 grid or 374 spaces. Two pages= 748 spaces, which is the combined capacity of both our solved 408 cipher and unsolved 340 cipher.
Coincidence or POSSIBLY an indication that the two ciphers were created at the same time?
Does this lend any creedence to the possibility that the 340 cipher could be a continuation (differently encoded) of the 408 or that the unsolved portion of the 408 cipher might represent the beginning of the 340?
Perhaps a mod could bring the original discussion over here?
I think it is quite possible that that the last line of the 408 could pertain to the 340 and not just filler.
Dave already did. He copied across all of the cipher threads.
“I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.“
Dave already did. He copied across all of the cipher threads.
Awesome! Thanks, Trav (and Dave).
I’m going to take the liberty of reposting your depiction of the ciphers together. I’m imagining this as two sheets of standard grade-school issue graph paper which would have every block filled. The first page would end with the backwards C on line 22 and the second page would begin with the Z on the following line.
What I’m looking at is whether there are any patterns in the alteration of symbols from the 408 to the 340 that can’t really be captured by comparing the two ciphers statistically. I think this is kind of an interesting way of looking at the two ciphers together even if they weren’t created together.
A few observations:
– The forward and back slashes in the 408 are accompanied by vertical and horizonal "slashes" in the 340 (is the "I" symbol a letter or are all of these variations of the same symbol?)
– The "anchor" symbol in the 408 gives way to the same symbol with dots on the left or right in the 340. Are these different symbols or the same with the dots being required to indicate whether the symbol is "regular" or reversed? The plain old anchor symbol doesn’t appear in the 340 so I tend to think these dots are an important distinction.
– The V and ^ symbols are joined by < and > variations. Totally different symbols or rotated versions of the original ones?
– The lower right filled square is joined by its reverse image (why no symbols with the other quadrants fillled)?
Any other observations on the rotation or reversal of symbols from one cipher to the next?
I apologize for my complete lack of graphic skills to explain myself. 
I apologize for my complete lack of graphic skills to explain myself.
Here is a "typewriter-ified" version of your post for clarity:
A few observations:
– The
and
symbols in the 408 are accompanied by
and
in the 340 (is the
– The 408 has the
symbol, but the 340 instead has
and
. Are these different symbols or the same with the dots being required to indicate whether the symbol is "regular" or reversed? The plain old
– The
and
symbols are joined by
and
variations. Totally different symbols or rotated versions of the original ones?
– The
is joined by
, which is its reverse (why no symbols with the other quadrants fillled)?
Any other observations on the rotation or reversal of symbols from one cipher to the next?
I apologize for my complete lack of graphic skills to explain myself.
– The
It’s curious to me that the is involved not only with one of the "pivots" (intersecting trigrams), but also those weird "box corner" things:
I can’t help but look at the symbols and see them as little arrows, especially since the left and right "arrows" are new in the 340. The and are also new to the 340. And the is involved with the "fold in the middle" quality of the 10th line. How much of this is pareidolia???
Hello friends, if you already know someone was trying to break the 340 possible trying other languages such as French, Spanish, Latin, (do not know the exact percentage of each letter expectancy in those languages) and also not have capacity to do so. Who knows the zodiac was polyglot?!
Marcelo
https://zodiacode1933.blogspot.com/
Hello friends, if you already know someone was trying to break the 340 possible trying other languages such as French, Spanish, Latin, (do not know the exact percentage of each letter expectancy in those languages) and also not have capacity to do so. Who knows the zodiac was polyglot?!
Marcelo
Yes, I believe the correct, accurate and mathematical terminology for this would be "Pffft, I haven’t got the slightest clue at all". I can’t even come close to trying to crack it in English ;et alone decide to become a bilingual cipher cracker and decode it in Spanish….Which I don’t speak lol.
On a serious note, what give you reason to believe/suspect that the message contained within it may not be written in English?
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Yes, I believe the correct, accurate and mathematical terminology for this would be "Pffft, I haven’t got the slightest clue at all". I can’t even come close to trying to crack it in English ;et alone decide to become a bilingual cipher cracker and decode it in Spanish….Which I don’t speak lol.
On a serious note, what give you reason to believe/suspect that the message contained within it may not be written in English?
Lol, Just a suggestion, since no result was in English, French I suggest, as will the zodiac is Canadian?!
Me too, or you were in Portuguese I not break this code never
I guarantee that Z is not Brazilian!!
Marcelo
https://zodiacode1933.blogspot.com/
Well, we all know that Zodiac is Welsh so that’s what everyone should be looking for… 
Diolch yn fawr a Nos Da.
Well, we all know that Zodiac is Welsh so that’s what everyone should be looking for…
Diolch yn fawr a Nos Da.
This is true, we have solid evidence that is as good to ID someone as DNA itself. We have, what is without doubt, hard evidence of Zodiac’s Welsh roots from Trained Observer and SFPD Patrolman Mr Donald Fouke MBE.
"The man was a bit stocky and this automatically means he is most obviously A Welsh Minor who probably lost his sanity from being underground more than he’s on land.
I mean I don’t know, but if you push mr Fouke for an answer he will confirm that yes, as Zodiac walked past the patrol can he was heard singing Land of my Fathers.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
– The
It’s curious to me that the
I can’t help but look at the
Thanks for interpreting for me, Dave. 
I’ve saved that amazingly cool typewriterification tool for future lame cipher posts. I honestly don’t think it’s pareidolia. There seem to be a lot of recognizable patterns in the 340 cipher, which I think begs the question of whether they represent some indication of a specific method of construction or whether Zodiac just presented us with a bunch of garbage and purposely threw in patterns and teaser words (HER, GOD, ZODAIK) to make the cipher seem meaningful and solveable. I’m kind of worried that the latter fits his psychology better but who the hell knows?
Yeah, I’ve thought of those symbols as cues to rotate symbols as the cipher is being read. I still imagine him having a catalogue of each symbol used in four different positions (N, E, S, W) (0, 3 ,6 ,9) (^, >, v, <) and cherry-picking the conversion of each symbol to create meaningful patterns. Does that make sense? Symbols could be rotated after each arrow symbol… or every 4th line or however he chose to do it. FWIW, I’m convinced that his chosen name and chosen symbol are reflected on the construction of the 340 cipher somehow.
Yeah, I’ve thought of those symbols as cues to rotate symbols as the cipher is being read.
Do you mean physically rotating the symbols themselves, or rotating the plaintext assignments (making the cipher polyalphabetic)? Or are you referring to re-routing the direction the plaintext is read?
Yeah, I’ve thought of those symbols as cues to rotate symbols as the cipher is being read.
Do you mean physically rotating the symbols themselves, or rotating the plaintext assignments (making the cipher polyalphabetic)? Or are you referring to re-routing the direction the plaintext is read?
I suppose it could be any (or none…) of the above. My first intuiton was rotating the symbols themselves a quarter turn every line. I’ve always been curious about the apparent similarity between lines 5, 9 and 13, for instance, and why those recognizable patterns happen to show up on every fourth line.
Interesting ideas and observations. I was curious about if the trigram fragments (repeating trigrams with gaps) also repeat every 4 lines (or multiple of 4 lines). Here’s an updated image with the patterns highlighted:
The repeating patterns I highlighted are:
? ? 
? 
? 
? ? 
? ? ? 
? ? ? 
? ? 
?
? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? 
The pattern ? ? ? repeats with four lines in between, if you count from the end of the first occurrence. The others don’t seem to fit a pattern.
? ? is interesting because it happens right at the box corners. Also, measuring from the symbols of the box corners, they are 5 columns apart, just like the two intersecting trigrams or pivots.
I also think it’s interesting that ? ? ? ? involves the in 
. Perhaps even the apparent "signature" hides some plain text.
I think I need to go back and see how many of these kinds of patterns happen in other directions, to confirm they occur more frequently when the cipher text is read left to right, up to down. And how often do they occur in completely randomly shuffled cipher texts?
