Off the back of my recent post about the clustered patterns around that 2nd pivot I was considering Dave’s post regarding similar patterns in the 408. Didn’t find anything. Whilst I had the two ciphers up side by side, for no apparent reason, I wondered what the positioning of the pluses in the 340 corresponded to in the 408.
I did think though that before posting I’d better check this hadn’t already been covered. It has, sort of, in pi’s thread here. viewtopic.php?f=81&t=883
pi however applied his stencil to the solution of the 408. I was approaching this from the point of view that the pluses in the 340 where meant to be cipher symbols and a reasonably logical place to get them from would be the 408. Handy in that respect that both ciphers are the same width. They are however not the same length so that gives us 6 possible positions to take symbols from. Of those 6 there are 2 that I find interesting. One is what I have termed the matching position as it matches the places where the pluses appear in the 340 working from the top of each cipher. The other is position 3 because it, unlike the others, does not introduce any new symbols into the 340.
We’ll start with the matching position placement.
I thought it was kinda encouraging that the first plus in both ciphers is a plus and in the exact same position. Also the 2 vertical pluses at the ends of lines 14 and 15 in the 340 corresponded to 2 vertical P’s in the 408. It also, once transposed, creates a double R near the end of line 4 and a double M near the start of line 5. It does however introduce new symbols in the backwards slash, dead centre and a backwards E one character in at the start of line 18.
So that was my starting point. I then decided to go back and work from the top down. Where as the matching position starts on line 2 of both ciphers we are now moving the whole stencil up one line to line 1.
This is position 1.
Position 2 we started with (matching position) so now I’m jumping to the third line and naturally, position 3.
This is the second one I liked because, as far as I can tell, it introduces no new symbols into the 340.
Now to positions 4, 5 and 6. I don’t need to add much else save to say that they all introduce new symbols but some may less detrimental in that there’s possibly a balance. I’m presenting what each one looks like so if anyone spots anything interesting feel free to point it out. 
So there you have it. You know what we have to do to test these of course and that’s the bit I hate lol.
“I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.“
Trav, I need a coffee and I was up late……
You’re philosophising that the 340 may have been constructed from overlaying it on an intact (not divided into 3) version of the 408, yes?
(Which would mean that it’s almost certainly gibberish. Unless it’s a stencil cipher. Or a hole cipher. Or a grille, as _pi was philosophising.)
There’s an "S" at the start of both ciphers on line 4, or am I misunderstanding what you’re up to?
I don’t know how you can test that, statistically, but we know a man who might, I guess.
My initial reaction is that I’m going to sit here and suck my thumb for a while, looking at that first plus.
Time for that coffee.
I wonder what it looks like if you read the real-text characters from the unenciphered 408 that match positions between the two?
If you do that and it says "My name is Ted K and I hate you all…" ….. 
Trav, I need a coffee and I was up late……
You’re philosophising that the 340 may have been constructed from overlaying it on an intact (not divided into 3) version of the 408, yes?
(Which would mean that it’s almost certainly gibberish. Unless it’s a stencil cipher. Or a hole cipher. Or a grille, as _pi was philosophising.)
There’s an "S" at the start of both ciphers on line 4, or am I misunderstanding what you’re up to?I don’t know how you can test that, statistically, but we know a man who might, I guess.
My initial reaction is that I’m going to sit here and suck my thumb for a while, looking at that first plus.
Time for that coffee.I wonder what it looks like if you read the real-text characters from the unenciphered 408 that match positions between the two?
If you do that and it says "My name is Ted K and I hate you all…" …..
Yes philosophising is a very good way to put it lol. I guess I was just wondering if there was a possibility that the pluses are akin to blanked out cipher symbols and if so where might we find the right ones to replace them. It probably is gibberish and not practical I have no idea. I stare and poke, that doesn’t leave much time for thinking things through, that’s what you guys are for lol.
“I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.“
Trav-
It took me a bit to see what you are up to here. It would help GREATLY if you showed that the images of the 340 were modified. I mean, I see that you actually
did, but the white background of them doesn’t show up well. Perhaps make them orange, red, or blue, or any color that shows up better.
This is perhaps a compelling idea, but could maybe be shown clearer. No offense intended, it just was not obvious at first.
-glurk
——————————–
I don’t believe in monsters.
Trav –
What he said. 
It’s a fair enough comment and one I had considered. Ironically I thought that highlighting them in some way might make it harder to read but it would make it easier to see. I guess I was also holding off to save any confusion "So what are the ones with the highlighted symbols, are they the same as the ones that aren’t?"
Now thanks to your query/request I can do that and we’ll know why I’m showing them.
Lets add this in at this point. Just to make it clear that the ‘stencil’ shape is derived from the placement of the pluses in the 340 and it’s back into those positions that the symbols lifted from the 408 are being placed.
And now on to the amended versions of the previous images.
Matching position.
Pos.1
Pos.3
Pos.4
Pos.5
Pos.6
“I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.“
Here’s the ascii for the ‘matching position’ and ‘position 3’
Matching position
HER>ÐÌ^VPËI²LTG±Ä
NÐ+B¢·OºDWy•<»KÆ£
BŸ„ÃMIuZGW¢£L·¤HJ
SÐн^̾»V´ÐOÆRRK±
¸¼MM¤ÔÊÄIµFPVˆ³Ë/
оR^FÌO-»ÄCËF>±D¢
·µÔKѺƒ±uÃXGV•¤LI
¢G±JÆÊ·OѸNy¤^¹L¼
Ä<MÑÂIZR±FBßA°³K
-¤ÌuVÊ^JOн<FBŸ-
uÃR/µÔEIDyBÐÂTMKO
±<ÃÌRJI»µT³M•XˆBF
¤°¼SŸ·ÔNIµFB⃾R
ÌGFN^Ƶ±³Â•ÃV³Ô¢P
ŸBX²»„³¼CE>VuZµ-P
IÕ´¤BK¢OÐ^•ÆMÑG±
RÃTSL²°C<ºFÌWBI£L
ÐÅ£WC¤WÃPOSHT/¢£Ð
IFËÄW<½ÔB¸yOB»-CÃ
>MDHNÐËS¤ZO¾AIKƒ¸
Position 3.
HER>ÐÌ^VPËI²LTG±Ä
NÐyB¢·OºDWy•<»KÆ£
BŸ„ÃMBuZGW¢£L·¤HJ
SÐн^̾»V´ÐOVWRK±
¸¼MG¤ÔÊÄIµFP¾ˆ³Ë/
оR^FÌO-»ÄCËF>±D¢
·µ/KѺƒ±uÃXGV•¤LI
¢G±JÆÊ·OѸNy¤M¹L¼
Ä<MRÂÊZR±FBßA°³K
-¤ÌuVW^J+Oн<FBŸ-
u¼R/µÔEIDyBÐÂTMKO
±<ÃÌRJI»µT³M•KˆBF
¤°¼SŸ·¼NIµFB⃾R
ÌGFN^Ƶ±³Â•ÃV³ÔOP
ŸBX²»„³¼CE>VuZµ-M
IÕ´¤BK¢OÐ^•ÆMÑG±
RÃTÑL²°C<¾FÌWBI£L
ºO£WC¤WÃPOSHT/¢£Ð
IFËÄW<½ÔB¸yOB»-CÃ
>MDHNÐËS¤ZO¾AIKƒÑ
“I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.“
Our resident cryptanalysts might find William Poundstone’s section on "The Beale Cipher" (from "The Big Book of Big Secrets", Barnes & Noble, 2001) worth a read. In a nutshell, a three-part cipher is alleged to contain directions to an enormous treasure located near Montvale, VA. The second part has been deciphered, and details the treasure; part three is a list of heirs to whom the treasure should be disbursed; and the all-important first part contains directions to the treasure. Parts three and one have never been deciphered.
Unlike Z’s ciphers, the Beale Cipher is numerical rather than symbolic, but the same principle obtains–and the same depressing outcome: years squandered by many individuals in attempting to solve a riddle that, increasingly, has come to be considered a hoax.
Coy as a Homecoming deb, Z has flirted with investigators, promising to reveal his identity IF they can only crack his code. Well, good luck to them! If ever the 340 is cracked, it will no doubt proclaim that Z is Alfred E. Neumann. With all due respect, anyone who pursues the possibility that Z would jeopardize his anonymity is simply wasting his/her time.
With all due respect, anyone who pursues the possibility that Z would jeopardize his anonymity is simply wasting his/her time.
All true.
With all due respect, anyone who pursues the possibility that Z would jeopardize his anonymity is simply wasting his/her time.
All true.
None of us expect Z to reveal his true name. We just want to see his next stupid twitter message.
-glurk
——————————–
I don’t believe in monsters.
With all due respect, anyone who pursues the possibility that Z would jeopardize his anonymity is simply wasting his/her time.
All true.
None of us expect Z to reveal his true name. We just want to see his next stupid twitter message.
-glurk
I disagree. The BTK left very strong clues to his real identity in his puzzle. So did the NYC Mad Bomber. So have other killers.
IMO it is thus very possible Zodiac did as well.
As rational people, we think "if I were a killer, I wound not put my real name or good clues to it in a code, puzzle or letter". But we are not killers. In some killers, particularly the minority who write letters, puzzles or codes, the ego overwhelms rationality. The desire to be known is greater than the urge to resist being caught. And putting your real identity into a code or letter increases the thrill.
MODERATOR
I agree with AK, in a weird way Zodiac wanted us to know who he was. And yet he has never been caught. I find this one of
the most moving cipher threads that I have read. No lie. It is amazing that some of the symbols line up exactly, from the
340 to the 480. I personally feel it is deliberate. These matching symbols, in and of themselves, perhaps anagrammed, could be a message.
Now imagine someone who might have the privacy and the time to create these ciphers. And was anyone else ever, "in the know", with Zodiac…
