doranchak, Subject: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:57 am
Here is my tortured analysis of Thomas Dougherty’s code theory:
http://www.zodiackillerciphers.com/?p=183
Thanks again to traveller1st and Zamantha for digging up this material!
traveller1st, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:34 pm
Super work Dave,
I can’t even imagine how melted your head must be after that.
Theforeigner, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:08 pm
Interesting!
Does anyone know any background history on Thomas Dougherty?
DOB/age, middlename, education/work previous to beeing a "bum" ?
I ask because I found an interesting Aug 2nd, 1968 newsreport on a cop named Thomas Dougherty.
Thomas Dougherty was suspended because of violent behaviour by no other than
San Francisco Chief of Police Thomas J. Cahill !
This suspended cop was 28 years old in Aug 1968 so he was born ca 1940.
Could this be the same Thomas Dougherty as the "cipher solver" Thomas Dougherty ???
IF he was the same could he have developed a hatret against the police, as Zodiac seems to have ?
Zodiac’s first letter was sent Aug 2nd, 1969, the 1 year anniversery of this Thomas Dougherty newsreport.
Of couse this might very well be nothing but a name coincident, but what if it´s not?
traveller1st, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:18 pm
Same spelling and the issue of the drinking. Great find TF even if it’s not him but then you have all the stuff about asking for court orders and knowing a judge to write to would fit in with being associated with LE.
Could all this code stuff been the attempt of man to redeem himself out of a spiral of alcoholism and loosing his job. I’ll solve this then they’ll have to re-instate me.
EDIT: Or it was an attempt to back at other officers that he felt had something against him? Very common behaviour and thinking pattern in alcoholics.
doranchak, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:22 pm
I, too, thought he might have been a cop, mainly based on this publication his name appeared in:
http://www.sfpoa.org/journal_archives/Vol_8_No_5_May_1977.pdf
Here’s the blurb:
And Ricardo (MKZODIAC) said this: "There was a police officer named Thomas Dougherty who lived at 804 Potrero Avenue in San Francisco circa 1969".
The name Thomas Dougherty is very common, though, so I don’t have any definitive link yet.
doranchak, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:34 pm
Then there’s this:
But it’s from a New York newspaper in 1978.
morf13, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:38 pm
Interesting!
Does anyone know any background history on Thomas Dougherty?
DOB/age, middlename, education/work previous to beeing a "bum" ?I ask because I found an interesting Aug 2nd, 1968 newsreport on a cop named Thomas Dougherty.
Thomas Dougherty was suspended because of violent behaviour by no other than
San Francisco Chief of Police Thomas J. Cahill !This suspended cop was 28 years old in Aug 1968 so he was born ca 1940.
Could this be the same Thomas Dougherty as the "cipher solver" Thomas Dougherty ???
IF he was the same could he have developed a hatret against the police, as Zodiac seems to have ?
Zodiac’s first letter was sent Aug 2nd, 1969, the 1 year anniversery of this Thomas Dougherty newsreport.
Of couse this might very well be nothing but a name coincident, but what if it´s not?
Theres a THOMAS J. DOUGHERTY in San Fran/Novato areas, 72 years old & a Thomas J. Dougherty born in 1914 in RIVERSIDE (Dad?) Also a THOMAS A. DOUGHERTY in the San Jose/Los Gatos areas age 73
morf13, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:58 pm
Then there’s this:
But it’s from a New York newspaper in 1978.
Hey,I remember from the FBI files,that there was mention of a bank robber,and they wanted to examine his bank note against Zodiac’s writing. Anybody remember the details of this?
Theforeigner, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:19 pm
Here is another newsreport on the suspended cop from Jan 28, 1969, and
in the newsreport it is stated that his middle letter is "J".
(the reason Elbert W Boyd is highlighted in the newsreport is because I searched his name in my database to see if I could get more info, and it worked:))
I also found and 1970 address on a Thomass J Dougherty in San Francisco:
California City Directories San Francisco > 1970
Thomas J Dougherty 240 Dolores ….. (phonenumber) 552-3236
Link fixed by Mod
doranchak, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:00 pm
Here’s more info on that accident involving Tom Dougherty, mentioned in "The San Francisco Policeman" publication:
http://www.sfpoa.org/journal_archives/Vol_5_No_9_September_1974.pdf
doranchak, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:07 pm
Poor resolution photo from "San Francisco Policeman" of Tom Dougherty on a boat:
http://www.sfpoa.org/journal_archives/Vol_3_No_8_August_1972.pdf
traveller1st, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:12 pm
Here’s more info on that accident involving Tom Dougherty, mentioned in "The San Francisco Policeman" publication:
http://www.sfpoa.org/journal_archives/Vol_5_No_9_September_1974.pdf
I would say that would qualify someone to have an odd walk
Theforeigner, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:52 pm
Officer Thomas J. Dougherty was declared disabled October 20, 1975.
Interesting coincidence of dates, thinking of that the "cipher solver" Thomas Dougherty , as I unerstand it,
began to send his letters about the Zodiac also in 1975 (don´t know what month?)
http://www23.us.archive.org/stream/minu … f_djvu.txt
"Minutes – Police Commission of the City and County of San Francisco"
Quote:
d) Police Officer Thomas J. Dougherty,
Traffic Bureau-Solos, for disability,
effective October 20, 1975.
Zamantha, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:56 pm
Totally enjoyed the team work with Trav & Dave. Nice adventure to SF, took Sandy with me & we totally enjoyed ourselves looking through these files. Sandy & I meant Ricardo for lunch at Hayes St. Grill where of course we talked Zodiac. I mentioned to Ricardo why we were in the City and he said I have some of those files on my site, and explained how Blaine turned him on to them. I was surprised but not shocked that Ricardo knew about them. So keep in mind to check his site now and then, it’s MKZodiac.com
What’s more then amazing is the wonderful report Dave put together on this. Trust me, it was pages & pages of "The Thomas Dougherty’s code theory, he must of put hours & hours of time into this. Thank YOU, Dave & Trav.
Zincerely, Zam*
PS
Some of Thomas’s mailings were sent from Hotel Warfield, 118 Taylor St. SF, CA.
morf13, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:57 pm
Not sure this is the right Tom Dougherty or not, but hes bay area….any ideas?
https://edisk.fandm.edu/occ/magazine/pr … _td52.html
Maybe a son?
http://www.baycrossings.com/dispnews.php?id=2674
Zamantha, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:10 pm
IF we find the right Thomas, I’d be happy to go interview him for the scoops. >grin<
Zam*
morf13, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:13 pm
Hey, you guys got some mention on a zodiackiller cipher(if somebody already mentioend it or posted the link, sorry for double posting it)-
http://www.zodiackillerciphers.com/?p=1 … ode-theory
And who’s writing is this about half was down that page? (using the word ‘SHALL’ no less)-
That page is all over the place I cant keep up-
"He focuses on his suspect, Ray Hughes, whom he claims is the magician son of Howard Hughes and a famous actress"
I saw the RH in the suspect’s name, just curious
And who wrote this?
IS THIS DORANCHAK’s site?
morf13, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:19 pm
OKAY…sorry, I see it IS Dave’s site…I somehow missed the intro & backstory of this material….anybody have cliff notes? 
traveller1st, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:32 pm
I found the existence of the files whilst searching for Manalli’s stuff in a SF Library listing. I asked dave if he had heard of it, he hadn’t so he contacted SF Library but there were restrictions on copying some stuff for emailing. We asked Zam if she would be able to take as trip and check it out which Sandy & Herself did. Posted the stuff to Dave. Dave wrote the article about it for his site and here we are.
Oh and of course on the day Sandy & Zam went to the Library they met Ricardo afterwards only to find out that the Dougherty code stuff was already posted in part on his site.
And here we are
morf13, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:40 pm
Okay thanks for catching me up. So the hand written stuff, is that Dougherty’s writing?
Any clues on where Dougherty was from, went to school, etc? Think Foreigner said his middle initial was J. Now I am starting to look thru pics inyearbooks etc…not a whole lot of guys with this name but a few…heres one from the 1959 University Of CA Los Angeles…(guy on right)
morf13, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:49 pm
I also missed it, do we in fact know for sure that the TOM DOUGHERTY that worked with the codes was in fact a cop? Found this another bay area mention of a guy by that name-
"San Jose Mercury News – Dec 9, 1993
”Understand that this is our bird," said Thomas Dougherty, Lockheed’s program manager for the $630 million NASA repair mission, who has been helping direct … "
"San Jose Mercury News – Dec 2, 1987
The space station contracts will not be part of the Ford Aerospace operation moving to San Jose next year, said spokesman Thomas Dougherty. …
"Thomas Dougherty, Hubble Space Telescope, and Hugh Dougherty, Relativity Mission Spacecraft, program managers at Lockheed Missiles and Space Co., "Fixing the Hubble Telescope: The Servicing Mission."
Theforeigner, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:59 pm
This is the birth record of the suspended/disabled Thomas J Dougherty Cop :
California Birth Index, 1905-1995
about Thomas John Dougherty
Name: Thomas John Dougherty
Birth Date: 23 May 1940
Gender: Male
Mother’s Maiden Name: Bourdieu
Birth County: San Francisco
But, as far as I know, NO we are NOT 100% sure that the Cop Thomas J Dougherty
and the "cipher solver " Thomas Dougherty is one and the same.
traveller1st, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:00 pm
No I don’t think we do know what he was, occupation wise that is lol.
morf13, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:08 pm
No I don’t think we do know what he was, occupation wise that is lol.
Any thoughts on the writing?
morf13, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:14 pm
This is the birth record of the suspended/disabled Thomas J Dougherty Cop :
California Birth Index, 1905-1995
about Thomas John Dougherty
Name: Thomas John Dougherty
Birth Date: 23 May 1940
Gender: Male
Mother’s Maiden Name: Bourdieu
Birth County: San FranciscoBut, as far as I know, NO we are NOT 100% sure that the Cop Thomas J Dougherty
and the "cipher solver " Thomas Dougherty is one and the same.
Heres another SF police paper thatmentions an Officer Thomas Dougherty..
http://www.sfpoa.org/journal_archives/V … e_1980.pdf
morf13, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:32 pm
Okay, I think I am lost…
"Another character in his story is Louis Gottlieb, who was apparently involved in the killings"
When you wrote story,are you saying that this guys research sounds like a story or is it really a story of fiction??
traveller1st, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:42 pm
Well it looks like a story with people that Dougherty knew or knew of crowbarred into a rambling narrative using the letters of his proposed code solution as the start letter of each word in the story. And more randomly sometimes a letter represents a word like x = poison, poisoned, poisoner etc presumably because he couldn’t think of any words that started with x.
The writing looks similar to Zodiac in some aspects but there’s bits that are way off like the y’s. One of the things I have noticed about writing of this nature in POI’s is that they are more often than not victims of drug or alcohol abuse or both. Tends to lend to that sloppy approach as their situation and condition worsens.
morf13, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:45 pm
Well it looks like a story with people that Dougherty knew or knew of crowbarred into a rambling narrative using the letters of his proposed code solution as the start letter of each word in the story. And more randomly sometimes a letter represents a word like x = poison, poisoned, poisoner etc presumably because he couldn’t think of any words that started with x.
The writing looks similar to Zodiac in some aspects but there’s bits that are way off like the y’s. One of the things I have noticed about writing of this nature in POI’s is that they are more often than not victims of drug or alcohol abuse or both. Tends to lend to that sloppy approach as their situation and condition worsens.
Well, maybe this guy wanted to bring attention to his ‘work’, so maybe it is intentional, or by accident, but the guy writes Lake Tahoe/Incline Village(Donna Lass) and also writes about Melvin Belli.
Fot what its worth, there is NO listing for any ‘Thomas Dougherty’ in the 65-66 Riverside phone directory
traveller1st, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:14 pm
Well, maybe this guy wanted to bring attention to his ‘work’, so maybe it is intentional, or by accident, but the guy writes Lake Tahoe/Incline Village(Donna Lass) and also writes about Melvin Belli.
Yes so maybe he’s a good story teller but it just feels so much like he had a head full of Zodiac info and used that to jump from what is basically the start point of an idea for tackling the 340 to a proposed solution. You see you have to ask where he got the names from, he certainly didn’t stumble upon them in his solution. I mean how could you ever know that the letter G stands for Gottlieb unless you already had that name in your head connected with Zodiac.
He didn’t discover this or any solution. He created it.
You also have to ask if he had this info in his head why didn’t he just phone or write to the Police with this information? Why did he instead arrive at nothing like a solution through the 340 to present his story (it barley warrants being called evidence) and that’s probably what LE thought at the time and is why they didn’t want to know. The reason he has done it this way is to try and add significance to his claims where there aren’t any.
It would be interesting to know if he had contacted LE with a more traditional presentation prior to this that was dismissed out of hand as ridiculous and then decided to show them by finding what he had already told them but this time hidden in the 340.
doranchak, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:37 am
I would say that would qualify someone to have an odd walk
Dougherty’s accident was in September 1974, but the "odd walk" descriptions for Z emerged back in 1969.
doranchak, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:39 am
Interesting coincidence of dates, thinking of that the "cipher solver" Thomas Dougherty , as I unerstand it,
began to send his letters about the Zodiac also in 1975 (don´t know what month?)
The earliest postmark I saw on Dougherty’s letters was September 10, 1975. The latest was December 2, 1975.
doranchak, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:49 am
In this bizarre letter, Dougherty does mention arresting someone:
http://zodiackillerciphers.com/images/dougherty/2012_08_16_06_36_29__1975_09_29.jpg
traveller1st, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:03 am
I would say that would qualify someone to have an odd walk
Dougherty’s accident was in September 1974, but the "odd walk" descriptions for Z emerged back in 1969.
Maybe he was planning ahead? lol.
I’m not convinced there’s anything to that anyway. I tend to feel that it was just how he happened to be walking at that moment and probably as a result of seeing the patrol car approaching and attempting to appear unsuspicious and not in a hurry. None of the other witnesses mention it, it’s not mentioned regarding the Berryessa attack and I would have thought given the terrain that any walking impediment would have been noticed.
Nin, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:27 pm
Also:
Mary Pilker
A Citizen
Shall we..
doranchak, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:45 pm
Interesting. Here are more examples of "shall":
"Shall try to get a court order":
"Suitable words shall be formed":
"I shall speak to you later about that":
"they shall be discovered":
"letters shall have to be rearranged"
Maybe the more he stared at the Zodiac writings, the more he started to mimic them.
Nin, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:49 pm
I am in particular wondering about the Citizen and the Mary Pilcher reference. When did the original Zodiac Citizen card information surface? And when was Mary Pilcher publicly mentioned as being related to Donna Lass? I don’t recall. Howard?
-Nin
doranchak, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:25 pm
The earliest newspaper mention of the Badlands letter that I can find is from September 1976.
I think the Dougherty stuff is all from around the fall of 1975.
Seagull, you have a bigger collection of old newspaper articles. Do you know of any that mention the Badlands letter?
And I double checked the transcriptions: Zodiac doesn’t use the word "citizen" until the Badlands letter.
I also can’t find any references to Mary Pilcher in the news clippings. Do you know of any, Seagull?
Seagull, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:17 pm
I will check about an article announcing the Citizen letter. I am in the throes of reorganizing my articles right now. My filing cabinet was stuffed and I got another one, articles are everywhere!
I do know that the 1974 SLA letter was not announced until Aug. 1976 but don’t know if the same is true for the Citizen.
Tahoe or Howard would be better people to ask about any Donna Lass articles. Tahoe because she has local to Lake Tahoe articles available to her and Howard because he keeps in touch with Mary Pilker. I believe I’ve posted any Chronicle articles related to Donna Lass that I’ve found.
Seagull, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:24 pm
Zodiac does use the word Citizen in the May 8, 1974 card. He signs it "A Citizen".
http://www.zodiackiller.com/CitizenCard1.html
Nin, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:44 pm
Zodiac does use the word Citizen in the May 8, 1974 card. He signs it "A Citizen".
Yes, but was it public knowledge?
morf13, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:48 am
I am in particular wondering about the Citizen and the Mary Pilcher reference. When did the original Zodiac Citizen card information surface? And when was Mary Pilcher publicly mentioned as being related to Donna Lass? I don’t recall. Howard?
-Nin
Was she EVER mentioned as being related to Donna Lass?
bruce3, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:14 am
Mary Pilker…there were articles after the Pines. Some have her picture. Most of the ones I have were sent to me by Mary and were in midwest papers.
doranchak, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:53 am
I emailed Howard about Mary; here’s his reply:
Mary some time ago sent some articles from newspapers from the 70’s-as you know the card was sent in ’71. She was shown in one photo looking at one of Donna’s dresses.
I don’t think N CA papers ran stories about her though. Just in the midwest as she lived there and still does.
I am not saying LT papers didn’t mention her,but they did a few years ago as she visited LT to revisit the case with the PD.This was in 2000 or around that time.
doranchak, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:35 am
A quote by Mike Cole from the old ZK board:
The S.F. Chronicle published Mary’s name and the city in which she was employed (which also happens to have been the city in which she lived) in the March 26, 1971 article: Zodiac Hints of a Body Near Tahoe.
http://www.zodiackiller.com/discus/messages/25/173.html?1153026775#POST6088
morf13, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:08 am
"The S.F. Chronicle published Mary’s name and the city in which she was employed (which also happens to have been the city in which she lived) in the March 26, 1971 article: Zodiac Hints of a Body Near Tahoe"
Was that in South Dakota? If the article was posted in South Dakota, how could Zodiac, or anybody seenit in CA? Pretty unlikely. Add that to the fact that somebody from Alameda County mailed the Christmas card with double postage to Mary Pilker in SD. ‘IF’ Z mailed her that xmas card, how did he get her address in SD? How would he have ever read Mary’s name? Leads me to believe that it could have been somebody close to the Family.
Also, any chance that this girl LYNNE COSSETTE from Stateline knew Donna? She was in Darlene Ferrin’s address book. (just looking for connections)
http://www.zodiackiller.com/DeeBook4.html
tahoe27, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:43 pm
Newspapers had a way with sharing friends and family members addresses with serial killers and whackos.
After the fiasco with weirdo #2 mailing Mary a bunch of bizarre Zodiac crap, it wouldn’t suprise me a bit if someone mailed Mary that card who had absolutely nothing to do with the Donna’s disapperance.
Morf–Joanne G. was not familiar with the name Lynn Cosette. (Don’t know about her SLT friends)
But, Jim Phillips/Crabtree thought it familiar. He and Darlene of course lived in the South Lake Tahoe/Stateline area for a bit.
Seagull, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:03 am
"The S.F. Chronicle published Mary’s name and the city in which she was employed (which also happens to have been the city in which she lived) in the March 26, 1971 article: Zodiac Hints of a Body Near Tahoe"
Was that in South Dakota? If the article was posted in South Dakota, how could Zodiac, or anybody seenit in CA? Pretty unlikely. Add that to the fact that somebody from Alameda County mailed the Christmas card with double postage to Mary Pilker in SD. ‘IF’ Z mailed her that xmas card, how did he get her address in SD? How would he have ever read Mary’s name? Leads me to believe that it could have been somebody close to the Family.
I went to the library and got this article. It is posted here-
http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … icle#35816
doranchak, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:15 pm
Thanks, Seagull!
Seagull, Subject: Re: Thomas Dougherty’s "code theory" Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:52 pm
I am in particular wondering about the Citizen and the Mary Pilcher reference. When did the original Zodiac Citizen card information surface? And when was Mary Pilcher publicly mentioned as being related to Donna Lass? I don’t recall. Howard?
-Nin
I found the SF Chronicle article where the Citizen Card was announced to the public. It’s posted here-
http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … nced#36401
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