traveller1st, Subject: Z340 Dissected   Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:19 pm

I was reading Chris Farmers work on the "Scorpion Code" and how he discovered that it consisted of sequences of symbols and went on to crack it. For a long time I’ve viewed some of Zodiac’s symbol choices as being like that. I don’t think that the Z340 is as simple as finding a sequence in the symbols but given that Zodiac does goes through what I would call a logical system for choosing symbols, I think it’s worth exploring the choices he made and if that can give us a clue to something, to anything.

The first 26 symbols are a given A-Z and Zodiac uses them. The then moves onto a reversal of those symbols to create a second batch. Next comes the standard geometric shapes and they are padded out with variations of themselves. Lastly we have the weird capital I shape with the dot on either side and then the zodiac symbol. Now I’ve listed those last 3 symbols separately because following from the shape progression, that I’m posting here as a starting point, I’m not sure they follow on at this point so they may be something separate.

When I say explore this I mean just that, an investigation of what we can gleam from the use of symbols and try and spot some sort of logic in the choices.

To give you an example, here’s one of my initial lines of thinking on it. In regards to the A-Z part of the cipher alphabet there are 16 of those that do not have variations. Now, did he intend for every symbol in the A-Z cipherbet to have a variation or even several variations? No idea. Let’s say he did. Where then are the missing symbols? How about the + symbols? so we assume that there are 16 additional symbols to be created from 16 of the plus symbols leaving 9 + symbols. I got all excited at this point because I thought, hold on, we’ve added 16 extra symbols using the +’s and thus removed them so we’ve added 16 but removed 1, the + which means we’re down to 62 symbols plus 16 which = 78 – exactly the length of 3 alphabets as opposed to the 2.6 alphabets we currently have. Of course I had forgotten about the 9 +’s left over so not only had I not actually reduced the initial key to 62 characters but there were potentially 8 other character I hadn’t accounted for or at least 1 with that pesky + and 9 occurrences of it. But that’s to give you an idea of what sort of things you can ponder with just a bunch of shapes in front of you.

I was also trying to be mindful of whether or not ZKD would have picked up on any theories I’ve gone through in my head. Sometimes the answer was yes but for things like the example above I wasn’t sure. If there was a missing 3 or even fourth alphabet or just 0.6 of one missing or even hidden within the cipher, would it matter to ZKD or would it throw it off if the pluses were extra symbols? Don’t know. Does only using 63 symbols (2.6 full alphabets) mean anything? Don’t know that either. Hopefully someone might if it does.

So here it is. Dissected and separated out into a starting point for an order. I say starting point because take the p and the V for example. The P has a reverse P but it also has a filled in P. The V has no alternative version of itself but it potentially has 3 variations from the right hand geometric shapes column. Should those variations on the V all be under the V or maybe just one of the variations. Should the filled in P be in the right hand column and would that make it more likely to be an odd symbol in the sequence like the cap I thing and the Zodiac symbol Guess what, don’t know lol. I also don’t know if any of this or all of it has been covered before or if none of this stuff would matter anyway when it comes to ZKD.

The shorter version of that would have been – Z340 symbols placed in a proposed order – please discuss

onewhoknows, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 pm

Very nicely done…now what does each letter represent?

dagmajor, Subject: Extra +’s   Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:13 pm

My belief is that the +’s are not extra. They are a representation just like all the other letters. I agree that there are three "alphabets" that were used which means some characters are missing. This would make sense if the Zodiac did not use every letter of the alphabet in his message. I am under the opinion that the three alphabets are (1) standard, (2) reversed or variated, and (3) symbolic.

As for the "+?"

It falls under the symbolic alphabet as a mathematical symbol:

+ addition
– subtraction
. multiplication
/ division

It’s over use was to thwart any attempt to solve the cipher. Hardin’s explanation on how he solved the three-part cipher was read in the paper by the Zodiac. This allowed the Zodiac to change his method so that the next cipher would not be solved as easily. In the military, we call this really bad COMSEC. Even during WWII, the US never let on that they broke the J25 code, and the British never let on that they broke the Enigma code. This was to keep Japan and Germany using the same codes so that the Allies could continue to intercept them, and eventually win the war. There is no doubt in my mind that the Zodiac would have continued using the same code if he was led to believe his three-part cipher was not broken, and that may have eventually led to his capture. Hindsight, as the saying goes, is always 20/20.

I believe the "+" actually represents every letter of the alphabet except for the two letters that were not used in the message. Once you find those two, you can start substituting every "+" with the remaining letters of the alphabet until you come up with fragments you can work with. If you have a life, that should take about 5-10 years. If the Zodiac IS your life, you may have a workable guide by next month.

entropy, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:00 am

I like the approach, traveller.

I still continually come back to the idea of Z using a catalogue of all letters and geometric symbols as well as reversed and/or rotated versions of themselves. This would potentially yield a catalogue of hundreds of symbols to choose from and he could select, for example, dozens of possible symbols to represent the letter E alone while avoiding awkward symbols such as a backwards G.

A few thoughts that come to mind from your collection of symbols:

– Why the need to designate two different versions of the capital I symbol? It would seem to me that the dot is used to differentiate the symbol in both "normal" and reversed form.

– As you mention, are the <, ^ and > symbols merely rotated versions of the letter v? The – symbol a rotated version of the letter I?

– Are the filled in P’s and cross/circle symbols purposeful or just sloppy variations of their unfilled brothers?

– Why the upside down T when only reversed versions of other letters are used? Is this a separate symbol? Could Zodiac have had upside down versions of other letters to choose from and merely opted not to because they just didn’t look right?

This method wouldn’t be difficult to create but the resulting complexity, however, would make it functionally unsolveable unless some specific substitution method was utilized.

dagmajor, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:07 am

It seems "upside down" letters were used where the reverse of a letter was the same as the obverse. A reversed "T" is still a "T."

doranchak, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:53 am

The – symbol a rotated version of the letter I?

This has the additional quality of forming this odd pattern of "box corners":

An interesting pattern, but it might just be pareidolia.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:31 am

All good stuff. This is what I was hoping for, trying to focus on the symbol use to see if there’s anything there.

Crazy things like ….. What’s under the symbols for instance? I mean is it plain text or is it cipher text from the, or one of the, previous encoding methods, if used. What if it was plain text, then why can’t we get at? If multiple encodings then what if the symbols were assigned to the cipher text of that encoding but those symbols where chosen from a logically ordered, simple table like the one I’ve suggested. If we took such an approach and considered the resulting plaintext as an accurate, or as close as, representation of the encoded cipher text underneath and thus have removed one layer of encoding. Or again would none of that sort of thing matter to ZKD.

EDIT: Basically what I’m saying as well is….if I were to hand you a print out of the symbol chart at the start of the thread and told you that these were the symbols you were to use – how would YOU organise them into a cipher table?

EDIT: Also to add. If you are more prone to things that make sense, say the progression of the variations of certain symbols – i.e variations on a circle that includes 2 variations of alternating halves filled in. Then on to a square and a triangle. Would that kind of organisation behaviour carry through to the layout choice of the the cipher table. Would you be as obvious as pairing sharp shaped letters with other sharp shaped letters or would you go the opposite, pairing soft shaped letters with sharp shaped ones? or maybe something in between. How would you make your choices to ensure maximum complexity if that is what we have here – it could be something simple that’s really hard to find.

Take the Zodiacs symbol choice where he has A-Z in the symbol table. So how do you pair that against the A-Z in the plaintext? Do you just go mad and completely randomize them or do you take one half (13 char) and reverse it? Knowing that you still have the geometric shapes to help flatten out the frequencies?

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Don’t know if this has anything to do with the topic of this thread, but I´ll share a thought I had for a long time:

I belive that the zodiac symbol (crossed circle) used by Zodiac in his 340 ciphers might be an I (i)

Why do I think that?

Because, due to Zodiac’s apparent narcissism I belive that Zodiac perceived himself as the center of the universe.

In astrolegy "Zodiac" even symbolizes the center of the universe, and is called ‘The Sign of the Zodiac"

So, IMO it would be logical for Zodiac to use the Zodiac symbol (crossed circle) for the letter "I", in the meaning of "me"

Additionally, in the alphabet I(i) is the 9th letter, and in the 340 cipher there are 9 "I"’s

And I also belive some Zodiac researchers have had suspected that Zodiac was kind of obsessed by the number 9, can´t remember HOW or WHY that is, maybe someone knows and could post about it?

I know Seagull is one of the researchers that belive Zodiac had a thing for number 9:

http://zodiackiller.21.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=3220

Here is backup that "Zodiac" symbolizes the center of the universe, and is called ‘The Sign of the Zodiac":

"Captain Martin Lee of the San Francisco Police Department told reporters that investigators had consulted astrologers regarding the Zodiac’s name and symbols. “We have made two or three inquiries of people in that business to gain information on what particular signs might mean. In fact, it was just a day or so ago that we learned that little symbol of the circle with the cross in the center of it, uh, what they told us is that this symbolizes the center of the universe, and this is called ‘The Sign of the Zodiac.’” Put simply, the crossed-circle symbol IS a Zodiac."

I know this might very well be just a total blind end, and if so, please just skip it:)

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:30 pm

Pfft this thread might be a blind end TF so we gotta consider everything and I know we don’t really like mathemagic but anything that involves numbers may be important in this so I personally can’t ignore even that – at least on a surface level.

I’m not saying ur last post was mathemagic btw – I’m saying that if , personally anyway, I can’t discount mathemagic’s uses until I know better then your line of thinking and querying is perfectly relevant and useful

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:33 pm

The – symbol a rotated version of the letter I?

This has the additional quality of forming this odd pattern of "box corners":

An interesting pattern, but it might just be pareidolia.

It does yes. I’m pretty sure you’ve wondered this too but anything popped out yet that might involve the pivots. I had a cursory glance but didn’t see anything….yet.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:13 am

Here I have ordered the symbols in descending order according, first, by the number of times they appear in the cipher then with that alphabetically alternating both normals and reversals, then finally the symbols in the order that matched my geometric progression thoughts. Just in-case someone see’s something in it.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:23 pm

And I also belive some Zodiac researchers have had suspected that Zodiac was kind of obsessed by the number 9, can´t remember HOW or WHY that is, maybe someone knows and could post about it?

I know Seagull is one of the researchers that believe Zodiac had a thing for number 9:

http://zodiackiller.21.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=3220

I know this might very well be just a total blind end, and if so, please just skip it:)

There is something about 9 that I came across in doing this but I’ll prob take some time and read Seagull’s and others thoughts on it. For me personally it’s mathemagic at this point, I think it had to do with alphabets (26) and/or differences between various amounts of various things but I do remember 9 figuring at one point in my dreamings and imaginings. That’s why I’m poking at the codes like this to see if anything shakes loose.

Here’s the 408 dissected. This one was weird (for me anyway). It seemed to take forever to separate even though there are less symbols. At times I was surprised that I’d finished doing a symbol but despite that it still seemed a lot slower going than the 340. Maybe I was just getting dissecting fatigue or the extra characters made up for less symbols.

There did seem to be some correlation between where the symbols fell in a logical order and which cipher they were used on ie there seemed to be groups that were used more heavily in each of the ciphers in order. Or at least I have a vague notion of thinking that as I was cutting n pasting tiny squares one at time at 4 in the morning.

Anywho here it is. I’ll do another one later and put them in descending order as with the 340.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:35 am

Ok so here’s some unusualness to throw into the mix – just in-case

I was watching Rosemary’s Baby. Trying to work my way through horror films of the time on the chance that Zodiac watched them. Secretly I was hoping for the batwing to turn up as some sort of bespoke satanic symbol. No such luck. There was however a bit where Mia Farrow is faffing around with scrabble tiles to make anagrams. I suddenly though, oh, letters with numbers associated with them as part of the scoring system.

Thought I’d have a look. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrabble_l … tributions

Lots of lovely letters and numbers and in many different languages. It’s too early / late to come find anything meaningful but I did spot something that might be interesting. Some of the variations used in his ciphers do turn up in the other languages.

Here’s this little guy for example. From the 408 and all on his own.

I had stuck it in below the L as an upside L but the stroke extending beyond the descender bothered me. I wasn’t sure if it was a mistake but why weren’t the normal L’s and reversed L’s like that also if it was maybe part of a style and how do you make a mistake on 1 symbol. So if it wasn’t a mistake what was it.

Whilst scrolling through the scrabble tables in different languages it jumped out at me has I hit the Hebrew Language. It might be a Dalet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daleth

Check out the orthographic variations. It could well be a Dalet and he just randomly picked it as one of his symbols but there’s also others or at least one other in the Hebrew.

Basically I was wondering if this angle had been looked at. Is there anything in the scrabble distribution tables and scoring system that might correlate to something in the ciphers?

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:53 am

Trav – I don’t know. But in scrabble each letter has a "number value". I think x and z have a high number value, because it is hard to use them in a word.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:08 pm

Trav – I don’t know. But in scrabble each letter has a "number value". I think x and z have a high number value, because it is hard to use them in a word.

I don’t know either lol. I was sticking out there so I could return to it and let others ponder it in the meantime. I’m fishing for techniques, influences anything really that might have played a part in symbol choice or anything relating to the ciphers.

Yes things like X and Z have high scores but they also have low usage. Is there anything in the numbers involved themselves? Or, and I’m probably leaning towards this, any coincidences, that may or may not be found, are simply because we are dealing with very similar subject matter ie alphabets and multiple occurrences of characters.

There’s things like the number of tiles in different sets. Closest to English and including English use 100 tiles.
Other languages use 102 or 104. Italian uses 120.

Would it matter if you based your frequency distribution on different languages for a message written in English? Or a message mostly written in English but with some foreign words, or a message written in English and then randomly or even systematically replaced certain words with a foreign, or multiple foreign counterparts. I’m primarily talking about the 340 as we know that the 408 is in English.

Those are some nice numbers for mathemagic it has to be said but is there anything behind it? Does it mean anything that the 408 is 4 x 102 tiles? Is the 340 two parts Italian to one part English in a crazy scrabble distribution scheme and/or in language mixed in such a way to make it difficult to solve?

You Know, weird crap like that. Just wondering.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:25 pm

Found this a nice little succinct thing on the 408 construction.

http://ovo127.com/2011/02/05/trevor-bla … explained/

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:43 pm

I’m posting this as an illustration of how you can get lots of compelling words in the 340 rather than a proposed partial solution. It is one of my many attempts at it in ZDK using my (and probably others) approach of letting it run on the 340 uniplus file and then as soon as I see words or groups of words that make sense and then I start locking them and unlocking them and completing some and letting it keep running to see what it produces, if anything.

The reason I’m saying it’s not a partial solution is because I have produced many of these, all with a different, but equally compelling, "story" emerging. I’m basically saying, isn’t this really interesting, well no it’s not because when treating the 340 a homophonic sub and the nature of it’s construction, these partials can be produced all day long to show something that looks really good but doesn’t mean anything because there are too many other possibilities. That and the fact that it’s a partial and not complete speaks for itself.

Even if it were likely that these could be part of a correct solution there’s no way to know until you have a complete solution.

I started with uniplus 340 and as something appeared I would lock it if it was interesting enough. I think this one started with what looked like "forced the queen back" then probably the "io" in presidio and I plugged that in then ZKD came up with cabbie on it’s own and possibly even some of the letters from heights. The first like I can’t remember but it came in pretty close to toschi the copedo and then copoffee. I just reduced it to cop. Sonoma was something like onona maybe. "The shame is" was as is.

smithy, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:42 am

All good stuff…..
Basically what I’m saying as well is….if I were to hand you a print out of the symbol chart at the start of the thread and told you that these were the symbols you were to use – how would YOU organise them into a cipher table?

I think my 408 key (cipher table?) would nowadays look like this. (With apologies to wiki in respect to the frequency distribution graphic lift, and the unknown supplier of the beautiful vertical original of this key, which I have lazily twisted thru 90 degrees, in part).

If I was to do the same for the 340, my key might look a bit like this, if I thought the pluses represented single occurences of each letter used (which I don’t, frankly.) Taller peaks on the silhouette of distribution, to reflect the Z. "trying to make it harder to solve":

Or perhaps like this, maybe:

If I thought the pluses were used in the key in some order against single characters (which I don’t either, frankly).
If the pluses were indeed "regularly used" somehow, how useful they would be. Oh well. *sigh*

I hope this makes some sense.

Please can you just copy the correct symbols from the 340 into the correct locations for me on these pillars Trav?
If you do those 80-something cut and pastes, we can all move on.

This last version (tries to) show the distribution and the pluses, but doesn’t have a representation of the characters like the triangles of the 408, which have been multiply assigned in the 340. Probably.

"Pick the bones out of that" as they say.

In respect to your points about shapes, points etc. in the symbols, I’m very sad to say I haven’t a thought in my head for you in respect to that. :no:

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:56 am

I’ve been crawling around a highly magnified 340 and have noticed some things, not sure if they mean much but hey, something to do.

Just found this and I wasn’t even looking for this kind of thing. I know this has been discussed many times regarding 340 symbols, is this really this and is that really that etc. Not sure if I’ve seen a discussion regarding the crosshair specifically but it’s bound to be out there or on here somewhere lol.

So the first thing I noticed was the third one in (marked in green). Thought it was nifty that 2 opposite quadrants appear filled in and I hadn’t noticed it before. I thought I’d better take a look but TBH I just assumed it was fill-in from the ink and the size of the symbols. I still don’t know but I though it was interesting if I had to suggest that these were different that the ones I’ve qualified as 1/4 (that’s 1 quadrant filled in) the quadrant used in each was the bottom right.

It’s probably just all fill in but still better to mention it than not.

I’m comparing to each other which is why, compared to the others, the second one from the left, the 4/4 could be interpreted as a 1/4 or a 2/4 but compared to the others its a 4/4. I’m also thinking that if this was the intention then to him they may have looked right but to us under closer scrutiny they just look like sloppy versions of the same symbol.

That 2/4 has me wondering though. The 1/4’s I can understand, if he’s pulling in with his stroke at that point in the ellipse, you can see that on the others but then suddenly there’s one with opposite quadrants filled?

Something to ponder/dismiss. Not sure how much difference it would make anyway if they were different symbols.

smithy, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:14 am

Interesting observation Trav – a good spot – but please don’t find any more seperate symbols in the 340, otherwise every third one will be a different letter, and the text could then be anything from your Sainbury’s list to something from the Bible!

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:35 am

Interesting observation Trav – a good spot – but please don’t find any more seperate symbols in the 340, otherwise every third one will be a different letter, and the text could then be anything from your Sainbury’s list to something from the Bible!

Ahh good point lol. I don’t think there’s any else in that regard. Just that wee one.

EDIT: Here’s the other thing I did spot. I may have a theory about this regarding someone’s handwriting but at it’s simplest, it’s attention to detail correcting the length of the crossbar as it was off centre beforehand.

Ok taking it back. Here it is before the correction. Now that doesn’t seem enough to warrant a correction.

So my second thought was this as the correction point.

The revised option with the corrected section below it.

smithy, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:31 am

Yes, I think that the correction was made, and possibly twice. What’s that say to you about the guy who wrote it out?

I hardly dare mention it, but there’s a guy around town saying that the ciphers may have been produced by someone other than the letter writer. I heartily disagree with that, just because of the penmanship against "Belli" for a start – but I wondered what you might think.

He also said that 408 was probably produced well before the first letters were – and that I think I can concur with.

But the 340 – that has an error in it, which makes me think that it was produced in a far shorter time scale. That thought leads me on to the idea that the message it contains may not be "A mission statement" then, like the first ciphers was. (Which in this light could have been something you would produce to vent your feelings, maybe – but have to express in code in order to make sure it wasn’t going to be read while it was just lying around your bedroom). And since it was "rushed" – relatively speaking – that might also be why we can’t get anywhere near it….. Any "fixes" you find would tend to support that, I think.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:52 am

Yes, I think that the correction was made, and possibly twice. What’s that say to you about the guy who wrote it out?

I hardly dare mention it, but there’s a guy around town saying that the ciphers may have been produced by someone other than the letter writer. I heartily disagree with that, just because of the penmanship against "Belli" for a start – but I wondered what you might think.

He also said that 408 was probably produced well before the first letters were – and that I think I can concur with.

But the 340 – that has an error in it, which makes me think that it was produced in a far shorter time scale. That thought leads me on to the idea that the message it contains may not be "A mission statement" then, like the first ciphers was. (Which in this light could have been something you would produce to vent your feelings, maybe – but have to express in code in order to make sure it wasn’t going to be read while it was just lying around your bedroom). And since it was "rushed" – relatively speaking – that might also be why we can’t get anywhere near it….. Any "fixes" you find would tend to support that, I think.

The 340 writer and the letter writer are the same person. There’s plenty of matching habits carried through on to the 340.

smithy, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:54 am

Yeah, I think so too. What about the rest matey?

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:07 am

Yeah, I think so too. What about the rest matey?

No real thoughts on the rest to be honest. Not yet anyways.

RTF, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:46 am

…Hardin’s explanation on how he solved the three-part cipher was read in the paper by the Zodiac. This allowed the Zodiac to change his method so that the next cipher would not be solved as easily.

Another take on this, Dag, would be that Z designed the 408 to be broken quickly. Hence, the multiple use of KILL, ING, IT IS in the first of the three sections; especially the first four lines. Not to mention that it begins, I LIKE KILLING, which pretty much points the way to some of your I’s, K’s, L’s and ING’s… and prompts the solution of PEOPLE for more letter solutions.

If the 408 was made for easy solving, and the 340 proving nigh on impossible, it does make one think that it was made for bussy work’s sake.

Ok so here’s some unusualness to throw into the mix – just in-case

I was watching Rosemary’s Baby. Trying to work my way through horror films of the time on the chance that Zodiac watched them. … There was however a bit where Mia Farrow is faffing around with scrabble tiles to make anagrams. I suddenly though, oh, letters with numbers associated with them as part of the scoring system.

I recall that Gareth Penn utilised Scrabble letters in Times 17 for some attempts/analysis, Trav. So you’re in good company.

Oh, and the Rosemary’s Baby Scrabble scene has crossed my mind too. I remember quickly checking whether the My Name Is solution could be Roman Castavet. Drat it!

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:17 am

…Hardin’s explanation on how he solved the three-part cipher was read in the paper by the Zodiac. This allowed the Zodiac to change his method so that the next cipher would not be solved as easily.

Another take on this, Dag, would be that Z designed the 408 to be broken quickly. Hence, the multiple use of KILL, ING, IT IS in the first of the three sections; especially the first four lines. Not to mention that it begins, I LIKE KILLING, which pretty much points the way to some of your I’s, K’s, L’s and ING’s… and prompts the solution of PEOPLE for more letter solutions.

If the 408 was made for easy solving, and the 340 proving nigh on impossible, it does make one think that it was made for bussy work’s

I agree.

You bet he wanted the 408 solved. I mean, what does it say? A bunch of hogwash that certainly didn’t need to be difficult and non-solvable.

bentley, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:17 pm

Yeah, he even sent in a key to the Vallejo paper! Or was that someone else?

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:09 pm

Oh, and the Rosemary’s Baby Scrabble scene has crossed my mind too. I remember quickly checking whether the My Name Is solution could be Roman Castavet. Drat it!

Oh yeah did that too. Hi Rufus BTW. Nice to meet ya.

Smithy I think I’m start to concur on the speedier 340, just letting the observations sink in.

I wonder sometimes if he wasn’t actually delighted the Hardens solved the first one. That must have made the FBI and Navy look like real goof’s in his eyes.
I bet if they had got it first there would have been no end of ridicule in the press about how amateurish and how good, the good guys are so were gonna catch him soon. Either way he won because they didn’t catch him.

As for the 340 it wouldn’t make sense to produce a similar encryption to the first, where would be the fun in that. So the ever asked question – is the 340 something more, something extra that might only be even attempted by a select few, a peer group of sorts among intellectuals and not necessarily just in the field of cryptography, a real puzzle for real people, whoever they are. Or was it all a set up including the 408 as the bait? It was cracked so the others must contain something.

It’s very tempting to speculate that the 340 is just nonsense but then what of the Z32 and the Z13. Any analyst worth his salt would know these were unbreakable or as near as given the shortness and symbols used. So why keep including these things after the 340 remained unbroken. They could hardly constitute bussy work. Did he just like using them? or is there something about the 340 that would unlock them – or are they independent of it? Or ….did he really not know anything beyond basic hom/sub. Given the excellent work by many researchers over the years there might seem to be something in the 340 and that’s pretty much how I feel about it. An approach or understanding that yet eludes us.

Then we have the message on the Halloween card envelope "sorry no cipher" using the cross configuration with shared letters, as he used on the cross of "paradice slaves". Was this a clue or a just a cut off point suggesting that he realised that his hints weren’t working because the 340 remained uncracked and his last gesture prior to this was to give a clue to the map cipher and of course the possibility that the Z13 was a clue to the 340. It seems like overkill to give clues to something that might mean nothing and how confident could he be that if this was bussy work that it would aid him, it’s not like the lead detectives would actually personally be trying to decode this stuff, they would be doing other stuff so who exactly did he think he was keeping busy?

It always comes back to "too clever" for me, there’s something about this that might be clever but we haven’t discovered it yet, is that enough on it’s own? probably but I don’t think so. I can’t shake the feeling that even if the 340 is "crack-proof" and even if it’s gibberish, there’s still a message to be discovered in that – like a Gordian knot of cipher encryption that once discovered would display the ability of the creator but ultimately betray nothing or say anything beyond that. It may in turn reveal the other ciphers but again, even if they weren’t gibberish, I doubt they would betray any but would complete the puzzle confirming the 340 as an evolving but unbreakable template.

Or he was just crap at this stuff an somehow felt obliged to keep including ciphers until he got bored or risked becoming obvious that he was as clueless as me lol.

doranchak, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:18 pm

and of course the possibility that the Z13 was a clue to the 340

I can’t help but think they are connected in some way, because of the way he worded the beginning of the 4/20/1970 letter:

"By the way, have you cracked the last cipher I sent you? My name is ______."

It’s almost like he was giving an example. Or maybe it was just a continuation of the original tease that his name could be found in the 408.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:28 pm

and of course the possibility that the Z13 was a clue to the 340

I can’t help but think they are connected in some way, because of the way he worded the beginning of the 4/20/1970 letter:

"By the way, have you cracked the last cipher I sent you? My name is ______."

It’s almost like he was giving an example. Or maybe it was just a continuation of the original tease that his name could be found in the 408.

I could go with either and be satisfied but then why repeat the exercise with the map, an even more (apparently) obvious clue – ie he spelled it out. Is the map and it’s cipher then perhaps the weakest link in this convoluted trail of clues?

EDIT: Actually that would be cute – the map is the map.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:29 pm

and of course the possibility that the Z13 was a clue to the 340

I can’t help but think they are connected in some way, because of the way he worded the beginning of the 4/20/1970 letter:

"By the way, have you cracked the last cipher I sent you? My name is ______."

It’s almost like he was giving an example. Or maybe it was just a continuation of the original tease that his name could be found in the 408.

A while back a poster named NIN had been working on a possible MyNameIs/340 tie in, and came up with the possible clue of POLISH NAME.

The 1986 Graysmith Raw Solution has a 4th line asking the questions SEE A NAME
On the 3rd line we have THEO (Greek for GOD and first four of a male name), with 9 letters surrounding it.

One is: MY NAME IS….AENZ8K8M8?NAM
One is: ILUEHSTHEOLHS….SEE A NAME

Zodiac asks "BY THE WAY HAVE YOU CRACKED THE LAST CIPHER I SENT YOU?". Zodiac is of course refering to the 340. He then gives us a clue how to solve the 340, he says "MY NAME IS" then gives us the code. By telling us his 13 letter NAME, he is calling attention to the 4th line in the 340 which asks SEE A NAME, and the 13 letters that preceeded it.

There does seem to be a strong match between the 13 symbols Zodiac gives us in April of 1970 and the Graysmith solution to the 340, more evidence that the much maligned Graysmith solution could be largely or at least partially correct.

Both the My Name Is Code and the Graysmith 340 3rd line have:

One set of triples
Three sets of doubles
Four singles

Coincidence? Maybe. Not a lot of good matches, other than what is stated above. No solid pattern in caesar shifts or anything else I can see.

Lets look further:

HHH…..888 (MATCH as H is 8th letter in alphabet)
LL…….AA (+15 shifts)
EE…….NN (+9 shifts)
SS…….MM (-6 shifts)
U………E (+10 shifts)
T………K (-9 shifts)
O………^ Aries Symbol (In the 408 virtually the same symbol translates to an O)
I………+ Zodiac Symbol (The Zodiac Symbol Is "I" to the Zodiac)

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:36 pm

Actually regarding Caesar shifts as AK just mentioned,

Is there anything about the No’s marked out on the cross hair at the end of the bus bomb letter that would be telling in that regard?

6,8,9,10,11

EDIT: Another thought, why do all the proposed solution to this thing appear to be in broken or backwards English? Is it in another language on top of any other twists. I can’t help thinking of my favorite German word which is "Luftkissenfahrzeug" it means hovercraft but if you translate it back to English it gives you 4 words which are – air cushion drive thing or sometimes 3 air cushion vehicle. Sounds like a lot of the solutions lol. Are we looking or should we be looking at a Germanic based language as well?

EDIT 2: There is of course "Des" instead of "Dec" on the dripping pen card which the 340 was sent with. Purported to be a German or Germanic word.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:38 pm

Probably should have a new thread but then shouldn’t they all regrading this beast.

Ok this concerns the 340 uniplus corrected. I say corrected because the original included one of the pluses as the same as the symbol "u" which had 5 matches rather than just one. I don’t know if this was intentional as without doing that it brings the number of patterns down to 7. This one makes every + unique.

I just plug n play and see what happens. This happened so I followed it.

"Folly the praise"

Led me to this:

In Praise of Folly (Greek title: Morias Enkomion (Μωρίας Εγκώμιον), Latin: Stultitiae Laus, sometimes translated as In Praise of More, Dutch title: Lof der Zotheid) is an essay written in Latin in 1509 by Desiderius Erasmus of Rotterdam and first printed in 1511. The essay was inspired by De Triumpho Stultitiae, written by the Italian humanist Faustino Perisauli, born at Tredozio, near Forlì.

Erasmus revised and extended the work, which he originally wrote in the space of a week while sojourning with Sir Thomas More at More’s estate in Bucklersbury. In Praise of Folly is considered one of the most notable works of the Renaissance and was employed as one of the catalysts of the Protestant Reformation.[citation needed]

It starts off with a satirical learned encomium after the manner of the Greek satirist Lucian, whose work Erasmus and Sir Thomas More had recently translated into Latin, a piece of virtuoso foolery; it then takes a darker tone in a series of orations, as Folly praises self-deception and madness and moves to a satirical examination of pious but superstitious abuses of Catholic doctrine and corrupt practices in parts of the Roman Catholic Church—to which Erasmus was ever faithful—and the folly of pedants (including Erasmus himself). Erasmus had recently returned disappointed from Rome, where he had turned down offers of advancement in the curia, and Folly increasingly takes on Erasmus’ own chastising voice. The essay ends with a straightforward statement of Christian ideals.

The remainder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Praise_of_Folly

Here’s the ascii for it. I probably got it wrong but hey you never know lol.

HER>ÐÌ^VPËI²LTG±Ä
NÐaB¢·OºDWy•<»KÆ£
BŸ„ÃMeuZGW¢£L·¤HJ
SÐн^̾»V´ÐOghRK±
¸¼Mi¤ÔÊÄIµFPmˆ³Ë/
оR^FÌO-»ÄCËF>±D¢
·µnKѺƒ±uÃXGV•¤LI
¢G±JÆÊ·Oo¸Ny¤r¹L¼
Ä<MsÂ*ZR±FBßA°³K
-¤ÌuVv^JwOн<FBŸ-
uxR/µÔEIDyBÐÂTMKO
±<ÃÌRJI»µT³M•QˆBF
¤°¼SŸ·0NIµFB⃾R
ÌGFN^Ƶ±³Â•ÃV³Ô`~
ŸBX²»„³¼CE>VuZµ-!
IÕ´¤BK¢OÐ^•ÆMÑG±
RÃT$L²°C<=FÌWBI£L
{}£WC¤WÃPOSHT/¢£Ð
IFËÄW<½ÔB¸yOB»-CÃ
>MDHNÐËS¤ZO¾AIKƒ+

EDIT: this is a straight run of only 6.19 hours with no plugs. The folly thing appeared quite early on. Continuing the run for another….who knows…days until I spot something else. I tend to run each one at full thread for a number of days.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:52 pm

I think it’s about time SETI shared their code with us so we can set up a global run on this thing. Anyone know their phone number? lol

doranchak, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:37 am

I think it’s about time SETI shared their code with us so we can set up a global run on this thing. Anyone know their phone number? lol

SETI@Home runs on the BOINC platform. It is rather easy to set up a project in BOINC:

http://www.boinc-wiki.info/How_to_create_a_BOINC_Project_-_Step_By_Step_instructions

The challenge is figuring out what kind of experiment to run (and, of course, getting enough volunteers). A million people running ZKD on the same transcription is likely to yield nothing useful. But a million people trying out variations of the transcriptions (to test different encipherment hypotheses) might be useful.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Z340 Dissected   Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:23 am

I think it’s about time SETI shared their code with us so we can set up a global run on this thing. Anyone know their phone number? lol

SETI@Home runs on the BOINC platform. It is rather easy to set up a project in BOINC:

http://www.boinc-wiki.info/How_to_create_a_BOINC_Project_-_Step_By_Step_instructions

The challenge is figuring out what kind of experiment to run (and, of course, getting enough volunteers). A million people running ZKD on the same transcription is likely to yield nothing useful. But a million people trying out variations of the transcriptions (to test different encipherment hypotheses) might be useful.

Mmmmm I see what you mean. Turbo no good. Need turbo with purpose.