Some of us have added threads/investigators when we have come up with a topic of conversation. Feel free to contribute!

In December of 2008, some of us were lucky enough to "chat" with Ed, who, couldn’t personally attend the task force meeting hosted by Tom Voigt in S.F, but Ed was online with us during it. It’s a little hard on the eyes, but there were some good questions…and interesting replies! –I’ll try and clean this up a bit later.

*************

tomvoigt:Is everyone hearing okay? Welcome to the tomvoigt chat room

6:04 tomvoigt: Ed Rust was ill this morning and can’t make it
6:04 libby2130: oh, sorry to hear that
6:04 tomvoigt: yes, we were too
6:05 tomvoigt: but we still have a great lineup
6:05 sandiegowhofan: I’m hoping for a little armand pellisetti — what do you think?
6:06 rembrandt4: is the harden’s daughter there?
6:07 vindog785: whos batting ninth?
6:07 otrabrit: Can anyone tell me what the "line-up" is. I know Nancy’s next and I’ve tried clicking the "Schedule" link but nothing happens!
6:08 tomvoigt: Leslie Harden is here and she will speak last, I believe
6:08 rembrandt4: cool
6:09 vindog785: does she share the talents her mother/father had?
6:09 vindog785: my checkbook wont balance
6:09 vindog785: so far he’s describing tom
6:09 tomvoigt: lol
6:10 vindog785: hehehe
6:10 vindog785: the advantage of not being there is being able to heckle tom unfairly
6:11 vindog785: is eric weil expected to call in
6:12 mjrice: only if belli shows up
6:12 vindog785: it’d be pretty impressive coming from the "other side"
6:13 mjrice: there’s cameras there-he could find a way
6:13 vindog785: HE SAID BYSTANDER
6:14 vindog785: static terrible now
6:14 spencertim: agree
6:15 sandiegowhofan: i concur
6:15 vindog785: might warn speakers to keep their distance ang
6:15 vallejo_dave: "I Am Back With You"
6:15 tomvoigt: ok
6:15 vindog785: WB
6:15 tomvoigt: sorry guys
6:15 vallejo_dave: lost connection
6:15 vindog785: no prob we arent complaining ang!
6:15 libby2130: drfinitrly. understand was is said
6:15 vindog785: very grateful
6:15 lapst: if the speaker talks a little softer it seems to disappear
6:15 vindog785: yes it does
6:15 vindog785: theres ang in yellow
6:15 vallejo_dave: BRAVO
6:16 vallejo_dave: BELLISSIMO
6:16 tahoe27: how awesome for her to be there
6:16 vindog785: yep
6:16 alexjonb: static gone!
6:20 tomvoigt: sound check
6:20 vindog785: fine now for most part
6:21 vallejo_dave: loud and clear in PA
6:21 otrabrit: agree with vin. nancy clearer but quieter than DVN No problem
6:22 libby2130: much better, static here and there when she gets louder
6:24 tahoe27: NIN is watching with us..just can’t sign on. Welcome NIN!!
6:24 libby2130: hi nin!
6:24 rembrandt4: hi Nin
6:24 vallejo_dave: Hi NIN
6:25 tonka2: Hi NIN, try adding a number to your name, thats what I had to do-
6:26 otrabrit: Hey NIN. Welcome
6:27 rembrandt4: same here tonka,
6:28 mjrice: or at least four characters
6:28 lapst: Tom: If you and the speakers would talk in a normal voice it would eliminate most of the static and I think all attending can still hear you. Might try it.
6:29 tomvoigt: i’ll let him know, lapst
6:29 lapst: thank you
6:29 tomvoigt: sorry for any inconveniences guys… i’ve been stressin’ out trying to get this set up
6:29 tomvoigt: <plans> In early 60’s I worked in Watford just north of London. The Who were regulars at The Trade (Trades Union Hall) next to the bus stop I used. Met em there. Also dated the secretary of the Screamin Lord Sutch fan club. Do you know of him??
7:10 erust1: I have had a close relationship with H.Hines and have his report on Kane/Klein and believe he built a very good "informational" case. The way I look at it is if Kane isn’t the Z, he should be.
7:10 vallejo_dave: Ed, did you interview the raccoon hunters?
7:10 erust1: the who?
7:11 vallejo_dave: the hunters on lake herman road
7:11 sandiegowhofan: Exactly. Seen them 21 times. Great live group!
7:11 vallejo_dave: they had rifles at the scene
7:11 erust1: OH. No, that was the sheriff’s office case. I was with Vallejo PD
7:11 eastcoast2: Mr. Rust – was Larry Kane’s DNA ever checked against what was taken from the letters – that you know of ?
7:11 vallejo_dave: OK, thanx Ed
7:12 erust1: No. The SF lieutenant who went up and interviewed Kane failed to even ask for a dna sample. Other than that I don’t believe there has ever been any attempt to match them up.
7:12 rembrandt4: i wish we could see the inside of the theater
7:12 otrabrit: I cant sing nut love music. My first ex-wife is a distant relation of Elton John. She saw him play piano at wedding reception at age 8!!
7:13 otrabrit:Nut s/be but!!
7:13 vallejo_dave: My condolences, otra
7:13 tomvoigt:the theater is pretty bland
7:13 erust1: Go Elton!! I still have his first LP
7:13 mjrice: bob vaughn was his real name
7:13 sandiegowhofan: Has anyone ever spoken to George Bawart? Who’s his favorite suspect? He made soem illusion to how he thought Cheney may have had more to do with it.
7:14 erust1: Mary Jane, is that you?
7:14 otrabrit: Eltons real name was bob vaughan ???
7:15 mjrice: no reggie something
7:15 lapst: Mr. Rust- Was there any talk/discussion at your Dept after the Stine shooting/connection re. SFPD officers stopping and a Q&R of "Zodiac"?
7:16 otrabrit: mjrice wight. I was joking!!! Its an English thing !!
7:16 erust1: Only the one where the Z says they stopped by and talked with him.
7:16 tahoe27: Mr. Rust? How well did VPD communicate with the Solano Sheriff’s office about potential suspects?
7:16 mjrice: ah- sorry and hip hip
7:16 rembrandt4: i thought the theater would be fancy
7:17 mjrice: or is it pip pip?
7:17 erust1: The SO had definite suspects in the Lake Herman shooting and as far as I know, they still think it was a local, not the Z who did that shooting.
7:17 lapst: Yes, was there discussion AT THE TIME about that? Locker room rumors about it?
7:17 vallejo_dave: it’s Marshall’s old decor
7:18 rembrandt4: marshall’s?
7:18 alexjonb: or maybe that local ended up becoming Z….?
7:18 vallejo_dave: he was associated with roxie?
7:19 rembrandt4: oh. thanks dave
7:19 eastcoast2: Mr. Rust – do you think its possible that Z didn’t do Lake Herman Road – he really goes out of his way to give a lot of info – if Z didn’t do Lake Herman Road – how would he know so much about it ?
7:19 erust1:ooohh! that sound is awful!!
7:19 erust1: sound is awful
7:20 sandiegowhofan: Agreed.
7:20 erust1: sound is still awful
7:20 mjrice: who died?
7:20 eastcoast2: Angie said she would try to encourage a stationaly mic after intermission
7:21 mjrice: oh marshall
7:21 alexjonb: i hear stuff without the mic better than I do wit the mic
7:21 sandiegowhofan: Quick straw poll – who (besides me) think that there was a writer and a shooter (2 different people)?
7:21 lapst: nope
7:21 alexjonb: possible
7:21 vallejo_dave: no
7:21 mjrice: no here
7:22 erust1: The SO had very strong info on a local thug that knew both victims at Lake Herman and that he was the shooter. They even tied him to a similar weapon used. Never could get enough for trial.
7:22 libby2130: no, don’t think so
7:22 eastcoast2: Hi Sandy – in my gut I think it was one person – but maybe I have been conditioned to think that way
7:22 libby2130: who is speaking next?
7:22 spencertim: I think it is possible the writer takes credit for things he didnt do
7:22 erust1: same person
7:23 otrabrit: One person
7:23 eastcoast2: I thought it was Ms. Harden
7:23 libby2130: who is speaking now? I couldn’t understand what was said
7:23 alexjonb: so is it possible that Z was copycatting the LHR killer when he shot Darlene and Mike?
7:23 tomvoigt: Speaking now is Jackson Garland, who lives in Beijing, China
7:24 tomvoigt: He created the very first known webpage dedicated to the Zodiac case
7:24 tomvoigt: back in 1996
7:24 libby2130: thanks! All I heard was the china part, a long way to come
7:24 erust1: I think Z claimed the Lake Herman case to add to his notoriety. Not a copycat thing.
7:25 erust1: The Lake Herman shooting supposedly involved drugs and romance.
7:25 rembrandt4: ed, how did he know so much about the scene?
7:25 sandiegowhofan: Didn’t he know specifics about ammunition? So wait, Mr. Rust, you think that Z did not actually do Lake Herman?
7:26 vindog785: sorry so long…kid got hurt
7:26 eastcoast2: If Z claimed Lake Herman Road but didn’t really commit the crime – that would explain why no letters after the crime – the link I’m missing is still how he knew so much about it
7:26 otrabrit: Hope not badly vin
7:27 vallejo_dave: wb vin
7:28 vindog785: no not too bad…but they think theyre dying
7:28 vindog785: ty vd
7:29 rembrandt4: i remember that movie "copycat"
7:29 erust1: I am going by what the original SO investigator told me. He was quite certain the shooter at Lake Herman was a local guy. Most of what the Z said in his letter was public knowledge. I am not sure about the ammo use, may have been a lucky guess as …
7:30 vallejo_dave: who is speaking now?
7:30 vindog785: gary busey
7:30 vindog785: joke
7:30 eastcoast2: thanks Ed – interesting angle
7:31 vallejo_dave: c’mon vin, lol
7:31 vindog785: i’m not sure vd
7:31 eastcoast2: that should be David Madsen – Davidmad on our board
7:31 vallejo_dave: did Clint make it?
7:31 vindog785: cool!
7:31 rembrandt4: the guy who made movie "copycat"
7:32 erust1: I hope they are putting this on a dvd as I can’t tell hardly anything being said.
7:32 mjrice: he wrote the movie copycat-and i can,t understand a word
7:32 vallejo_dave: ok, thanx ec
7:32 vindog785: tom/ang….asdk him to get away from mic maybe
7:32 tomvoigt: we are taping this with 2 separate recorders
7:32 vindog785: sounds like charlie browns teacher
7:32 spencertim: the mike needs to be held further away
7:32 alexjonb: (imperial troops have entered the base! imperial troops have entered the –)
7:33 erust1: excellent!
7:33 sandiegowhofan: Lends even more weight to my accomplice theory, since Z got the ammo right maybe his accomplice was this local LHR shooter?
7:33 libby2130: that’s great news, Tom!
7:33 rembrandt4: i feel like i’m under water
7:33 tomvoigt: sorry guys.. i’ll try to get his attention
7:34 otrabrit: put a hood on
7:34 vindog785: i’m trying to give him charade hints but he cant see me
7:34 rembrandt4: vin lol
7:34 vindog785: by the way thanks for all the effort for doing this for us!
7:34 otrabrit: Absolutely.
7:35 rembrandt4:i third that
7:35 erust1: sandie, I don’t think Z had anything to do with Lake Herman. That is just my old police gut feeling, just like I dismissed Arthur Leigh Allen as the Z, almost immediately.
7:35 tomvoigt: you’re welcome! Thank you for the acknowledgement… It’s been a challenge to get this much of it available so hopefully we learn better for next time
7:35 spencertim: i’ll take the fifth
7:35 libby2130: yes, many thanks!!
7:35 eastcoast2: David Madsen also wrote the teleplay for a move called Deep
7:36 otrabrit: Was that with the lovely Jackie Bissett
7:36 eastcoast2: I hit enter too quickly – the teleplay was for Deep Family Secrets
7:36 vallejo_dave: glub glub
7:36 libby2130: sound is better!
7:37 vindog785: *clap clap clap*
7:37 rembrandt4: never heard that one
7:37 otrabrit: JB still gorgeous!!
7:37 libby2130: I spoke too soon
7:37 vindog785: hahah libby
7:37 spencertim: graet book by benchley
7:37 alexjonb: if Lake Herman was not Z, what evidence do we have that Blue Rock Springs was in fact Z? Is it possible just SF and Berryessa?
7:37 spencertim: i liked it better than jaws
7:39 erust1: The only evidence is that provided by Z himself, ie: his phone call after the shooting and his followup letters. The only real hard evidence are the bullets and the shell casings. Even the printed letters are suspect.
7:40 sandiegowhofan: Brand name ammo at Lake Herman Road was Super-X. I wondering if that is a common brand.
7:40 erust1: Winchester Super X was probably the most popular brand at the time.
7:41 sandiegowhofan: Interesting — so you’re right probably just a lucky guess in the letter after Blue Rock Springs.
7:41 erust1: Who really knows? Z does.
7:42 vallejo_dave: Z described what darlene was wearing
7:43 erust1: He did? I really don’t recall. I am not saying the guy who wrote the letters isn’t the Z, probably is. I just don’t think he did the Lake Herman crime.
7:43 spencertim: Mr Rust, I also felt the Stine shirt was not 100%, remotely possible Z worked for law enforcement, news, or ambulance and found the shirt, impound maybe , and sent everyone after a cab killer
7:43 sandiegowhofan: Mr. Rust — what is your guess on Riverside and the Kathleen Johns kidnap?
7:43 vallejo_dave: he described it in the one letter
7:44 vallejo_dave: something like culottes?
7:45 erust1: I will have to check. She had a white w/blu flowers dress I think
7:45 rembrandt4: patterned slacks
7:45 vallejo_dave: yes
7:46 erust1: I think she has a summer dress.
7:46 erust1: had
7:47 vindog785: sorry grabbed bite to eat if anyone addressed me..but i’m guessing not
7:47 vindog785: yes vd and remb. you are right
7:47 sandiegowhofan: And Mageau had on multiple layers and pants apparently.
7:48 spencertim: trying to look buff
7:48 erust1: He was self conscious of being thin.
7:49 erust1: who is this?
7:49 rembrandt4: hardens daughter
7:49 sandiegowhofan: And it was like 90 degrees that night or something too, I think. This is Leslie Harden.
7:49 vindog785: yes
7:49 erust1: thanks
7:49 libby2130: leslie harden, the daughter of the couple eho solved the cipher
7:50 erust1: I see, I don’t keep up with all of this.
7:50 vindog785: boy i’d sure like to hear this part better
7:50 vindog785: dvd will rock
7:50 rembrandt4: me too
7:51 tahoe27: Mr. Rust, How long were you involved in the investigation?
7:51 vindog785: erust1 how are you feeling?
7:51 otrabrit: I,m lip reading
7:51 vallejo_dave: is that Tip O’Neil sitting in left corner?
7:51 vindog785: thats what i’m doing with your chat otrabrit
7:51 rembrandt4: otre lol
7:51 spencertim: she stutters
7:52 rembrandt4: meant otrabrit lol
7:52 vindog785: yes vd…that HAS to be Tip
7:52 vindog785: there is a gavel in his right hand just out of view
7:52 vallejo_dave: lol
7:52 vindog785: lol
7:52 erust1: I am feeling a little better, thanks. I was only actively involved for about the first 30 days. My partner, John Lycnch being the senior investigator, followed up most. I helped out when asked.
7:52 vindog785: glad to hear it
7:53 sandiegowhofan: And Lynch interviewed Leigh Allen first, correct?
7:53 erust1: I think he did, but I am not sure if it was him or Mulanax.
7:53 otrabrit: vin: who said "Two nations divided by a common language" Either Churchill or Deputy Dawg?
7:54 sandiegowhofan: The thing about Leigh Allen is that looks absolutely nothing like the Stine killer, as far as I can tell, while Kane and this Gaikowski do resemble.
7:57 rembrandt4: leslie gonna read 340?
7:58 vallejo_dave: AEN+8Dave8Madd8+MENam8:01rembrandt4:oh crap, i can’t hear
8:01 erust1: can you hear me now??
8:02 rembrandt4: i can read you
8:02 rembrandt4:lol
8:02 vallejo_dave: I can’t hear–garbled
8:02 tahoe27: I think if they just laid the mic down it would work.
8:03 alexjonb: yeah i can hear everything BUT what’s said into the mic
8:03 eastcoast2: can the folks in the audience hear clearly ?
8:03 sandiegowhofan: Hate to be crass (okay, no I don’t) but what exactly does it mean that Kane was "losing control of self-gratification" after he got hurt?
8:03 libby2130: Bill sounds really clear right now
8:03 tahoe27: ahhh
8:04 eastcoast2: I can hear the hypontist great –
8:04 tomvoigt: they’re using the same mic so i dunno what the problem could be
8:04 libby2130: is she holding it too close?
8:04 erust1: I think it meant that he like to kill, and lost control is why the Z killings. I may be wrong on this, but that is my guess.
8:05 tahoe27: It’s the movement of the mic
8:05 sandiegowhofan: Reading the hines report now. Interesting …
8:05 libby2130: kane couldn’t control his urges
8:05 eastcoast2: how did Kane originally become a suspect ?
8:06 erust1: I have read it several times and became more convinced each time. Too much for coincidence.
8:06 eastcoast2: Sandy – how do we get a copy of the report – is it online ?
8:06 sandiegowhofan: What about fingerprints with the Stine cab ,and Kane?
8:07 sandiegowhofan: http://www.zodiackiller.com/KaneReport1.html
8:07 erust1: I have to go feed my horse before dark. be right back I think Harvvey’s report is on Tom’s ite.
8:07 tahoe27: Thanks for your help Mr. Rust
8:10 eastjersey: horses nice
8:11 spencertim: did Z know the 3-part cipher had been cracked when he wrote the 340?
8:11 otrabrit: Hungry horses not so nice !!
8:12 sandiegowhofan: Looks like the best evidence on Kane is the physical similarity and the physical ID by Fouke and Darlene’s sisters. Plus the Tahoe connection with Lass. No fingerprints or handwriting though.
8:13 rembrandt4: spencer, my guess is yes
8:14 rembrandt4: written months apart
8:15 spencertim: i knew that, but i thought there was a time lag between publihing findings
8:15 rembrandt4: oh sorry misunderstood
8:15 spencertim: no, i dont know-u could be right
8:16 sandiegowhofan: boy, I really wish there wasn’t static because she saying some good stuff right now.
8:16 eastjersey: anybody get that answer?
8:16 sandiegowhofan: she said thank you everybody.
8:16 mjrice: no
8:17 tonka2: nope
8:17 alexjonb: at least we know it’s being recorded! we’ll hear it sooner or later. thanks to everyone’s efforts on this live feed
8:18 eastcoast2: thanks to all who pulled this off
8:18 eastjersey: the recording will probably have static
8:18 sandiegowhofan: Yes, thank you!
8:18 rembrandt4: is it over?
8:18 alexjonb: i think they’re gonna show the most dangerous game
8:19 alexjonb: or part of it
8:19 libby2130: not necessarily, the live sound can be alot better than the streaming sound
8:19 sandiegowhofan: True — this is a streaming mic issue I think.
8:19 rembrandt4: do we get to see part of the bus tour?
8:19 mjrice: think so
8:20 eastjersey: nice picture, shame about sound
8:20 alexjonb:i have that book!
8:20 alexjonb:lol
8:20 rembrandt4: yeah good picture
8:20 mjrice: raffle time
8:21 vallejo_dave: I have that book too, lol
8:22 eastcoast2: Ed , if you’re still on, we would love if you joined the message board, speaking with you has benn wonderful – thanks for taking the time
8:23 erust1: I am back, as Jack would say!
8:23 sandiegowhofan: Welcome back!
8:23 vallejo_dave: Angie, what time is the hood going off?
8:24 alexjonb: yes ed this has been a really interesting conversation, thank you so much
8:25 sandiegowhofan: Mr. Rust — if Darlene’s sisters identified Kane, I wonder why he wasn’t really interviewed — or was he?
8:25 sandiegowhofan: I agree Ed, thanks very much for your insights and taking the time to chat.
8:26 eastcoast2: I think I speak for all remote user when I say that having Ed online more then made up for all the static we experienced from the microphones
8:26 tahoe27: Yes!
8:26 erust1: Kane was interviewed by Lt.Bruten? of SFPD. I met with he and Harvey and laid out the whole Kane story.
8:27 spencertim: i agree
8:28 otrabrit: Need to go now. Have enjoyed it immensely. First time Ive chatted. Wont be the last. Thank you Tom and everyone who helped organise things. Merry Christmas and a happy and healthy new year to everyone. And finally thank you Ed,Leslie, Nancy , Dr Dav…
8:28 eastcoast2: Angie – will the transcript of this chat be kept – Ed gave out some very interesting info
8:29 spencertim: oh great, now it will be documented that I’m nuts
8:30 spencertim: Well, my wife was quoted in the paper as saying, "It keeps him amused"
8:30 tahoe27: I can hear the audience member perfectly!
8:30 erust1: Bruten was to take Harvey with him for the interview, as a "resource" person, but we never heard from him until he had went up on his own, and alone, and interviewed Kane. We believe Kane "shined" him on and Bruten didn’t know the difference and thu…
8:31 alexjonb: are those the hardens on the phone?
8:31 sandiegowhofan: Kane had a record, no? wonder why his fingerprint didn’t match the Stine cab. Always a possibility that the fingerprint was someone else’s, but it sounded like the first responding officer to the washington/cherry sealed it off before anyone touche…
8:32 mjrice: mr. harden, yes
8:32 libby2130: thats mr harden, mrs harden died several years ago.
8:33 erust1: The print in the cab was never substantiated as the killer’s.. Unfortunately, they did not do a thorough print elimenation process for all the people who were at the scene. The print could have been any one of several people.
8:36 sandiegowhofan: Always wondered, was this a print left prior to the killing, or was it on top of the blood? Always wondered why it couldn’t have been a previoius passenger.
8:37 spencertim: Why did Z refer to the hit on wash. and maple when it occurred on wash and cherry?
8:37 erust1: I believe it was a print in the blood. That is why they thought it was the killers, but it could have been any number of persons who were at the scene.
8:38 erust1: I have no idea what is going on now, does anyone else?
8:39 rembrandt4: just questions and answers
8:39 erust1: ok, thanks
8:39 sandiegowhofan: QA
8:40 libby2130: is vin still here? puma didn’t get the code.
8:43 alexjonb: I’ve got to run folks, but thanks for the chat and thanks for another successful TFM
8:43 sandiegowhofan: No fingerprints at any other crime scene?
8:48 erust1: There were some prints lifted on the victim’s car at Lake Berryessa. They have never been ID’d, so it would appear whoever’s they were has never been arrested or printed. They were, at some point, compared with Kanes and did not match. They could …
8:49 erust1: BTW, my 21 yr old son is a fan of the Who and several other British rock groups, having been introduced to them by myself!
8:50 erust1: Whoa, not to them, to their music.
8:50 sandiegowhofan: Seriously? Excellent — ever had the chance to see them live?
8:50 eastcoast2: Ed, I have heard so many new facts tonight speaking with you – Thank You
8:50 erust1: Only on DVD/
8:51 sandiegowhofan: Yes, Ed, it has been surreal chatting in real time. My wife said "no way" when I said the detective that found Mageau on the DVD was chatting real time. So thank you very much for all of your effort and hanging in there with us!!
8:52 erust1: Thanks. I keep my interest in these events in the hope that someone, hopefully the FBI, will get into this case and solve it. I spent hours on the phone with an FBI serial crimes unit agent a few years back and thought she would get something done,…
8:53 eastcoast2: Ed, when you responed that night , could you ever have thought we be talking about it 40 years later
8:53 sandiegowhofan: Do you know if Toschi or the others have any invovlement anymore?
8:54 libby2130: good questions,, ed, thanks for chatting with us!
8:54 libby2130: good questions,, ed, thanks for chatting with us!
8:54 tomvoigt: As soon as Tom is done speaking, we will disconnect and attempt to reconnect on the bus…
8:55 tomvoigt: I haven’t tested that yet but hopefully it works! If it doesn’t work for some reason, we will be taping on the bus
8:55 rembrandt4: libby, did puma get the access code yet?
8:55 mjrice: thank you Angie
8:55 libby2130: no
8:55 mjrice: and Tom.
8:55 sandiegowhofan: Okay — off to the gym!! Thanks Ed! Thank you Angie!!
8:55 libby2130: should I pm him with it?
8:55 libby2130: should I pm him with it?
8:55 sandiegowhofan: Thanks All!
8:55 eastcoast2: Thanks all
8:55 tomvoigt: Thank you so much everyone
8:55 rembrandt4: thank you
8:56 erust1: Thanks tom, sorry I wasn’t there.
8:56 spencertim: ty
8:56 tahoe27: Thanks—you too ED!
8:56 spencertim: ty
8:56 tahoe27: Thanks—you too ED!
8:56 libby2130: thanks everyone!
8:56 tomvoigt: no problem, Ed! Thank you so much for joining the chat. I know everyone here was very excited to see you in the chat.

I’ll try and clean this up a bit later.

Beat ya to it. Well the bulk of it anyway. You can tidy anything I missed or you don’t like. I’m off to put my eyeballs in ice

THANK YOU!!! Very much appreciated. I know that was quite the task. Rest those eyes…

Highlighting some interesting comments:

erust1: The SO had very strong info on a local thug that knew both victims at Lake Herman and that he was the shooter. They even tied him to a similar weapon used. Never could get enough for trial.[/list:u:2jzl3a4p]
erust1: I think Z claimed the Lake Herman case to add to his notoriety. Not a copycat thing.[/list:u:2jzl3a4p]
erust1: The Lake Herman shooting supposedly involved drugs and romance.[/list:u:2jzl3a4p]
erust1: I am going by what the original SO investigator told me. He was quite certain the shooter at Lake Herman was a local guy. Most of what the Z said in his letter was public knowledge. I am not sure about the ammo use, may have been a lucky guess as …[/list:u:2jzl3a4p]
erust1: sandie, I don’t think Z had anything to do with Lake Herman. That is just my old police gut feeling, just like I dismissed Arthur Leigh Allen as the Z, almost immediately.[/list:u:2jzl3a4p]
erust1: The only evidence is that provided by Z himself, ie: his phone call after the shooting and his followup letters. The only real hard evidence are the bullets and the shell casings. Even the printed letters are suspect.
[/list:u:2jzl3a4p]
erust1: Winchester Super X was probably the most popular brand at the time.[/list:u:2jzl3a4p]
vallejo_dave: Z described what darlene was wearing
erust1: He did? I really don’t recall. I am not saying the guy who wrote the letters isn’t the Z, probably is. I just don’t think he did the Lake Herman crime.[/list:u:2jzl3a4p]
tahoe27: Mr. Rust, How long were you involved in the investigation?
erust1: I am feeling a little better, thanks. I was only actively involved for about the first 30 days. My partner, John Lycnch being the senior investigator, followed up most. I helped out when asked.
[/list:u:2jzl3a4p]
****
I will look further into this. Some of it is missing (nothing you did Trav). I had asked him about a shooting range on LHR (where the murders happened) and he was not aware of a shooting range for LE at that location.


“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969

 

Off Topic:
But it was nice to see Vallejo Dave &’VinDogs comments. Kinda miss their energy, sad when they passed.
@Tahoe, seems like we all asked everyone about the possibility of a gun range behind L.H. Still confusing as most knew nothing about it & some still said, there was one.

Zam*

I was thinking the same thing Zam.

I think the confusion about the gun range lies with the fact there was one there later, but I don’t see how a Vallejo cop wouldn’t know about a LE shooting range off LHR.

Hi-

I spoke to him several times a few years ago. He is a proponent of Harvey Hines’ work.

He said that the mystery man that Darlene met flew a plane, was older and either was or may have been from SF.

He feels that the person who attacked at BRS was definitely not much taller than 5’8" because of how he measured up as compared to the low profile Corvair. He said that MM was pretty sure in 1969 on that point.

Mike

I think too, the fact MM recalled that bit about the height of Zodiac v. the car, showed he was paying attention to detail…best he could.

I had a crush on Ed Rust for a few years, until I found out he was married. I was on the bus,so this is the first time I have read what was taking place while we were traveling . Ed said that the prints on the cab may not belong to Z because there were so many who touched the cab after the shooting. I read in a report or from a good source , that everyone who was around that cab were finger printed to eliminate them. So those prints were more than likely Zodiac’s, especially the bloody prints.
He also said that he didn’t feel Lake Herman rd was done by Z. That everything Z said about it was public knowledge. I beg to differ, the exact position of the body’s was not public knowledge.

I was glad to read ED Rust said that Zodiac was probably 5ft 8 or so not a tall man, it was proven by the angle of the shots fired. That eliminates so many suspects! I am not sure if it was this site or Zkiller.com, where I posted a few weeks ago about the angle of the trajectory in the window of the Rambler at Lake Herman rd. That angle showed the killer was a short person.

I remember Harvey Hines telling me that Ed Rust liked Larry Kane as a suspect. Donald Foukes said of all the suspect pictures he had seen, that Larry Kane looked the most like the man he saw on Jackson street. I have a suspect who is still alive that could be a clone of Larry Kane. For many yrs I thought that was the name of my suspect. VPD told me the picture I showed them looked like Kane. I like my suspect out of all the others, everything about him is a match to Zodiac, including his writing.

I had a crush on Ed Rust for a few years, until I found out he was married. I was on the bus,so this is the first time I have read what was taking place while we were traveling . Ed said that the prints on the cab may not belong to Z because there were so many who touched the cab after the shooting. I read in a report or from a good source , that everyone who was around that cab were finger printed to eliminate them. So those prints were more than likely Zodiac’s, especially the bloody prints.
He also said that he didn’t feel Lake Herman rd was done by Z. That everything Z said about it was public knowledge. I beg to differ, the exact position of the body’s was not public knowledge.

I was glad to read ED Rust said that Zodiac was probably 5ft 8 or so not a tall man, it was proven by the angle of the shots fired. That eliminates so many suspects! I am not sure if it was this site or Zkiller.com, where I posted a few weeks ago about the angle of the trajectory in the window of the Rambler at Lake Herman rd. That angle showed the killer was a short person.

I remember Harvey Hines telling me that Ed Rust liked Larry Kane as a suspect. Donald Foukes said of all the suspect pictures he had seen, that Larry Kane looked the most like the man he saw on Jackson street. I have a suspect who is still alive that could be a clone of Larry Kane. For many yrs I thought that was the name of my suspect. VPD told me the picture I showed them looked like Kane. I like my suspect out of all the others, everything about him is a match to Zodiac, including his writing.

Sandy, I cant share any crush sentiments, now or in the past, lol, but I can say that his sincerity and genuine interest in this case, without any hint of loss of passion is admirable. There are many impressive investigators in this case, it is sad that so many are no longer with us.

Phylos, I totally agree with you about Ed Rust. I feel the same way about Dave Toschi who I did talk with many times in the early 70’s.

I would love to talk to him again, it is my understanding that his wife Carol is very protective of him and won’t let him talk to anyone about the Z case. What sadly happened to him in 1978 over the "Tales of the City fan letters",harmed his health as well as the case.
I have never spoken to a more dedicated detective than Dave Toschi. Most of the detectives that I have talked to over the past years, don’t know as much about the case as some of us do ( Or so it seems)and that bothers me a lot!

Phylos, I totally agree with you about Ed Rust. I feel the same way about Dave Toschi who I did talk with many times in the early 70’s.

I would love to talk to him again, it is my understanding that his wife Carol is very protective of him and won’t let him talk to anyone about the Z case. What sadly happened to him in 1978 over the "Tales of the City fan letters",harmed his health as well as the case.
I have never spoken to a more dedicated detective than Dave Toschi. Most of the detectives that I have talked to over the past years, don’t know as much about the case as some of us do ( Or so it seems)and that bothers me a lot!

Well Sandy, You have been on this case much longer than a lot of them have been, so you have advantages.
We also have the advantage of time. I believe that it is easy for a Detective who has multiple other cases where the facts haven’t been picked over so much to concentrate efforts there. It is even quite possible that many feel it is a hopeless case and venture limited interest in it at all. I can not speak to any person’s interior thinking, perhaps Detectives have been as eager as us, and we just do not know it. The most important thing in this, or any cold case, is that people continue to work it, to see that it is not forgotten. I believe we are all accomplishing that.

So we need to talk about that Hood in your back seat…that is a bit fascinating

Sandy has poured a ton of info about her case at Zodiackiller.com’s message board and this site. You can certainly learn a lot about her experience via those threads.

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=355

http://zodiackiller.fr.yuku.com/topic/4 … VZiaYQrK70

Many people Phylos have spent years on this case, but as most of us only have an internet computer as our crime fighting tool, our ability to crack this case is effectively zero. I know Mike Morford has spent some time looking at the Golden State Killer and the police have recently set up fresh appeals to the public for any information, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem. The problem is, when you do contact them with something significant they never reply. I have contacted Sacramento PD three times, with absolutely no response, not even a courteous email, that takes five seconds of effort. You eventually get to the stage, where you realize that many of these appeals to the public are simply lip service and a public relations stunt. It paints them in a good and caring light. When you do contact them with genuine, tangible, solid, evidence based information, they simply don’t reply. I have recently contacted Cydne Holt, a friend of Cheri Jo Bates, Sacramento PD, Lake Tahoe PD, Riverside PD, and Ray Grant contacted the DOJ on my behalf. The last replied with basically nothing but a hand off, the rest not so much as a sausage. You have to realize eventually, but it will come, that the police are simply not 1/1000th as interested in solving this case as we are. They appeal for your help, no matter how small, but ignore you when you do. With people like this in charge, don’t expect a breakthrough in the Zodiac case any time soon.

Many people Phylos have spent years on this case, but as most of us only have an internet computer as our crime fighting tool, our ability to crack this case is effectively zero. I know Mike Morford has spent some time looking at the Golden State Killer and the police have recently set up fresh appeals to the public for any information, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem. The problem is, when you do contact them with something significant they never reply. I have contacted Sacramento PD three times, with absolutely no response, not even a courteous email, that takes five seconds of effort. You eventually get to the stage, where you realize that many of these appeals to the public are simply lip service and a public relations stunt. It paints them in a good and caring light. When you do contact them with genuine, tangible, solid, evidence based information, they simply don’t reply. I have recently contacted Cydne Holt, a friend of Cheri Jo Bates, Sacramento PD, Lake Tahoe PD, Riverside PD, and Ray Grant contacted the DOJ on my behalf. The last replied with basically nothing but a hand off, the rest not so much as a sausage. You have to realize eventually, but it will come, that the police are simply not 1/1000th as interested in solving this case as we are. They appeal for your help, no matter how small, but ignore you when you do. With people like this in charge, don’t expect a breakthrough in the Zodiac case any time soon.

I do not have such issues with Law Enforcement. I never have, unless I was suing them or challenging them in court.