True, Z didn’t care about being seen it seems and couldn’t wait to announce he was the assailant. But….

He didn’t mention the encounter with Fouke and Zelms in the letter sent two days after the incident, he simply told the readers ‘Zodiac’ was the offender. It wasn’t until a month later when Chief Lee pissed Zodiac off by calling him a liar, clumsy criminal and latent homosexual and said "He is a liar, he was nowhere in the area when we searched the park." This seemed to be taken rather badly by our faceless friend and it’s now, in retaliation for this barrage of abuse, does Zodiac reply with his own claims of incompetence on the ther side with his "PS, Two cops pulled a goof…" rant.
Very easy to seem unbothered when nobody has come knocking the door to question him, and if he is telling the truth, he only looks like that when he does his thing anyway so it’s no bother. But, I guarantee you that on the night itself, as his gaze was drawn to headlights approaching, and realizing that the vehicle coming straight toward him contained two SFPD Officers, he’d have almost needed to change his trousers. That is why I believe Fouke when he says as soon as the man saw them, he put his head down and turned into a driveway. He probably felt his legs go weak as he was caught like a rabbit in the headlights looking nothing like the ‘Crack Proof’ individual he told the Law he always was.

And don’t forget, for the first 4 weeks after he had this encounter, Fouke said nothing officially about it to anyone. He kept it quiet and to himself. This can only be due to fear of his superiors reaction to letting a suspect walk away from a murder, aswel as maybe feeling that he hadn’t detained the Zodiac while he stood right in front of him, and didn’t want it broadcast.
It wasn’t untill the arrival of your aformentioned letter by Zodiac, where he boasts ‘PS, Two cops pulled a Goof….’, did Fouke officially come forward and ackwnoledge the encounter and make a record of it.’

Fouke says that he verbally reported (verbally, not put in writing) his encounter on that very night to someone at the Richmond station, who ‘possibly’ was Toschi (he cannot remember). He mentions that he was bummed about not nabbing Zodiac, but that he felt no fear from his superiors, as he knew that it was a dispatcher error and the fault did not lie with him.

Yes Nach that has been my exact same view of the whole "White male allowed to walk off as police drive straight past" issue. I’ve always said that Don would hae no reason or cause to wish to keep this quiet because he had been told that the man he need’s to concern himself with looking for regarding this offence is a black guy. It’s not his error on the street that let Z walk away, it’s the information fed to him. There is a saying isn’t there thats something along the lines of ‘Your can only as good as the information you have been given." If someone asks me buy them a new plasma TV, I won’t go into an electrical store paying attention to the fridges because I am not looking for a fridge. I just realised how crappy that metaphor is

Don Fouke has his reason, and a perfectly plausible one too, ready for any criticism he may face for that night. So yeah I’ve always thought it was the higher up’s keeping it hush hush and Zodiac seems to also realize this and notice the encounter suspicious in it’s absence from the Paul Stine event and decides he now has an Ace to play

But lately I can’t help wondering after seeing how adamant Don is that he not stop and speak to Z weather it was Armond that Zodiac referred to? I have to question if Z was hid close by, heard Armond ask the dog walker had he seen anything and in his letter he is trying to imply he himself was the man sporting a pooch on a lead who was spoken to by Pellisetti.

When you think about it, what Pelilisetti said he asked the man with a dog is almost exactly, almost word for word, what Z would later claim the cop asked him in his letter.

The thing is, though, Zodiac describes being stopped by two cops in a car, not a lone cop on foot.

Another thought on this: On October 11th, the cops were looking for a murderer of a cabbie. They had no idea this was a Z attack until Z sent in a letter with the piece of Stine’s shirt. I wonder how different everyone’s actions may have been had they had the knowledge they were looking for Z at that moment.

Ok we’re combining a lot of things here, and we have to go back to the beginning as we know it. Pellessetti receives a dispatch, he says he is close by the scene (never has stated his location, but he must have been close). Pel roles up on Wash/Cherry, depending how close he was, Z probably has not made it to Jackson as yet. Z had to be concerned seeing an SFPD unit already on the scene. Pel goes up to scene, sees kids heading to cab, intercepts them, walks them back to their house, and finds out perp is a white guy. Still thinking it’s a robbery. Pel then goes up to cab and sees Stine and thinks that he is dead. In the video Pel states, "Boy I couldn’t get to that radio fast enough to report it in". He doesn’t say that’s what he did. I don’t he did. I think he immediately went down Cherry, heading North towards Jackson, looking for white killer. In the police report filed that night Pel states it’s when he gets to Jackson and Cherry, doesn’t see anyone, and is about to head back to crime scene when Fouke’s roles up.

Fouke’s is answering a different dispatch, then what Pel first answered. Fouke’s is only 1 minute away from the time he receives the dispatch to arriving at Jackson and Cherry (even if he stopped and spoke with Z). Impossible for Pel to do all that in 1 minute’s time and be at Jackson and Cherry when Fouke’s roles up.

Now in the video Pel. says he got to Jackson and Cherry, turned east on Jackson and walked down to Maple and met the dog walker there. Well first why would he turn east onto Jackson? He has no knowledge, or reason to believe that Z headed that way, correct? But let’s say that’s what he did. He walks down to Maple, then speaks with dog walker, then turns around and heads back up Jackson, heading west towards Cherry. When he gets to Cherry that’s when Foukes roles up, correct? That’s what Pel. says in the video. Ever walked that walk? I have many times….Now Pel. is looking for an armed murderer, so he’s has to take time to check around cars, buildings, etc, every step of the way. Minimum time it takes to walk from Wash./Cherry to Jackson to Maple and back, to Cherry, have 2, 30 second conversations, is about 11 minutes, and according to the video that’s when Fouke’s pulls up. 11+ minutes after Pel receives the initial call, means Foukes was answering a dispatch some 10+ minutes after Pel’s. dispatch, and Fouke’s still isn’t aware that perp isn’t black, but white, and crime isn’t robbery but murder. Doesn’t sound to me like Pel. ever notified dispatch about the race change, or the crime change, not before he saw Fouke’s anyway.

And it’s Fouke’s, to be sure, that leads investigation into park east of Maple. when fouke’s leaves Pel at Cherry he heads west on Jackson up to Arguello, turns right goes to Pacific, turns right and heads back down Pacific heading east. Full siren and lights by then. for sure Fouke’s has called in on what he has seen and where he thinks perp went. That’s why there’s immediate coverage in that area of park. Info couldn’t have come from Pel. He didn’t see Z, or have any idea which way Z went, only Fouke’s did. So Foukes did report that night that he saw perp. He didn’t make it official. It seems both Pel and Fouke’s maybe had some animosity towards assisting detectives in any way, and none came to Fouke’s until Z releases his embarrassing letter in Nov. and to Fouke’s I think he sees it as their problem not his. If no one cared to come to him and ask him, too bad, that’s their job not his.

Lee may have also been trying to incite Z to write again to communicate, to piss Z off and hope he makes a mistake. I recall when that took place and when Lee finished with his comment about Z may be a latent homosexual it was such an odd thing to say. But he may have said it just again to incite Z.

Yes… Bayarea60s, The Beginning is a good start. I would like to know, #1,what happen to the grove in the back seat of the cab?
#2, And, was a child following the perp? Their is alot happening on Jackson and Cherry.

You make a pretty good argument, Chappie. How did Fouke notice "graying in the back"? And why wouldn’t he and Zelms stop a guy who, presumably, given the proximity to the crime scene, may well have been able to offer good info?

How did Fouke notice the "Greying at the rear?" My opinion on the incident is that Fouke saw his hair at the back of his head because Zodiac had turned onto the steps of 3712 Jackson St when he saw Fouke & Zelms approaching. Fouke original memo states ‘suspect last seen heading North on Maple’ but in 2008 Fouke admitted that he’d actually last seen the man going up the front steps toward a house. I think as Don and Eric approach, Zodiac see’s them and, knowing he’s covered in blood and their headlights and streetlights will clearly show this, he turns onto the steps of a house and this then, like the original memo states, would mean that Zodiac had his back to officers as the pulled up on the street. That also explains how Fouke states in his memo that the suspects Pants were pleated and ‘Baggy in rear.’ I think they (Probably Eric) called out to the man as he was walking toward the door of 3712 while he was on the driveway, and the Zodiac can now turn (maybe only side on) to talk to them and will not be in their headlights or under street lights so they won’t see the blood on him.

You make a pretty good argument, Chappie. How did Fouke notice "graying in the back"? And why wouldn’t he and Zelms stop a guy who, presumably, given the proximity to the crime scene, may well have been able to offer good info?

How did Fouke notice the "Greying at the rear?" My opinion on the incident is that Fouke saw his hair at the back of his head because Zodiac had turned onto the steps of 3712 Jackson St when he saw Fouke & Zelms approaching. Fouke original memo states ‘suspect last seen heading North on Maple’ but in 2008 Fouke admitted that he’d actually last seen the man going up the front steps toward a house. I think as Don and Eric approach, Zodiac see’s them and, knowing he’s covered in blood and their headlights and streetlights will clearly show this, he turns onto the steps of a house and this then, like the original memo states, would mean that Zodiac had his back to officers as the pulled up on the street. That also explains how Fouke states in his memo that the suspects Pants were pleated and ‘Baggy in rear.’ I think they (Probably Eric) called out to the man as he was walking toward the door of 3712 while he was on the driveway, and the Zodiac can now turn (maybe only side on) to talk to them and will not be in their headlights or under street lights so they won’t see the blood on him.

This sounds like you are picking and choosing which parts of that memo you want to believe.

You say Fouke "admitted" he actually saw the guy go up to a house. In the memo he states the man was headed "into the Presido". So either way…Fouke lied. Not your fault Chappie. We can thank Fouke for making us choose.

Also, let us quote Fouke’s entire statement: "light colored hair possibly graying in rear (May have been lighting that caused this effect)".

POSSIBLY being the key word. Since the man’s hair was "light colored", it would be easily understandable that it might have been difficult to distinguish whether it was gray or just an effect from the light.
http://zodiackiller.com/FoukeReport.html

If we are to believe Fouke when he says he drove past this man, why would he be next to him to see Zodiac’s backside as he walked up some stairs?

Fouke must have simply looked in his review mirror. If one believes they stopped and talked to him, they watched him walk away and up to a house and Fouke, flat out did not mention that.

Since that memo mentions specifically Fouke & Zelms NOT STOPPING Zodiac, and Fouke’s reason as to WHY they did not stop him, I can’t help, but believe this memo was created because of Zodiac’s letter published 11/12/69….the SAME day as Fouke’s memo.

Was Fouke made to lie back then by the S.F.P.D? Is that why such hostility today? The cops searched the park because of Fouke so??

Someone lied…we know this much. And it would seem Eric Zelms never acknowledged this man walking up to a house on Jackson. As we know, coming from his widow, he said they did stop..if at least briefly. THAT would make sense. Responsible cops giving a quick shout out feeling safe with a white guy…"have you seen anyone"…and this gave Fouke that extra moment to observe more closely.

I can’t help but wonder if Fouke was made to write that memo that day…it’s just too convenient.

…and sorry to hash this out again here…a subject that has been discussed a million times. This thread should truly be dedicated to Eric.

No question Fouke lied, but I am not simply picking bits of the memo to believe T. Let me explain why I think it’s Don’s 2nd account of the man heading toward a house, rather than ‘North on Maple.’ (Last post regarding this, I agree this is Eric Zelms thread so we should stick to events relating to him).

My main reason for believing this ‘Possibly greying at rear’ comment is because it is consistent with having seen the white male walk toward the house. The comment in the memo would be out of place otherwise because Don says that as they approached Maple, he saw, on the north side of the street, a white male adult on the sidewalk. This means that the white male and Don Fouke were heading toward each other so any encounter would have been straight on, face to face so to speak. How would Don be able to see the back of this mans head if he’s simply walking toward him? Same with Don’s comment regarding the suspects pants being ‘Baggy at the rear’. However, if Don’s version of last seeing the suspect actually walk up some steps toward a house is true, then the comments in the memo of his hair ‘Possibly greying at the rear’ & ‘Brown rust coloured pleated trousers, baggy at rear’ immediately make sense now because as Don arrives parallel with the man, the man has turned up steps and now would have his back to Don and Eric as he walks toward the house, allowing Don to see the back of the mans head and pants. If Don really has seen the suspect ‘going north on maple’ then he’s have to have done so via his side mirror on Eric’s side because we know when he saw the white man it was face on because he gave a description of him so he couldn’t have been passing as the man is going north on maple because he’d never have seen him from the front.

I hope that answers your question. I assure you T, as I’ve said before several times, if I form an opinion on something then it always has a basis or evidence to it, something I can point to to show why I have that opinion. I don’t just decide "Yes, I think this version of Don’s is the true one because I want to too." I am simply looking at what makes sense given the contradictory accounts Fouke had given and as stated above, his second version of last seeing the suspect heading up steps toward a house, when coupled with statements made by him in his memo, now makes sense. I am not picking and choosing T, I am well aware that seeing what you want to see and accepting what you want to accept will get you nowhere in a hurry and have criticised others on other sites for doing just that.

The Journal: Official Publication of The San Francisco Police Officers Association.

Volume 46, Number 1.

January 2014. (www.sfpoa.org)

New tribute dedicated to Eric in the SFPD’s 2014 Journal paper. Screen shot of the first page….