I think the emergency was that his mother was unwell,
Dot and tipsy were his dogs.
I think Dot was shot by nancy but i don’t recall where i got that from.
I never understood “gave dot permanent” perhaps dot was a horse?

I reviewed “Words and their wicked ways” once again as i figured that’s what you honed into amazingates. We know Harvey was fired from Santa Maria College in or around 66 but he seemingly continues to be a english teacher somewhere in cali up until 67/68 when he returns to SF. I don’t believe we ever truly figured out where he was exactly after SM.

It’s a really interesting file with plenty undertones:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fzum9ub4smrdoyl/AADNc1buKtF_6M30gtSSgHjCa/WORDS%20AND%20THEIR%20WICKED%20WAYS?dl=0&subfolder_nav_tracking=1

Hate to say it but there is a drawing of a female dated april 66 with a rather unique looking hair style, it’s not nancy nor do i believe it to be his mother.

I think the emergency was that his mother was unwell,
Dot and tipsy were his dogs.
I think Dot was shot by nancy but i don’t recall where i got that from.
I never understood “gave dot permanent” perhaps dot was a horse?

I reviewed “Words and their wicked ways” once again as i figured that’s what you honed into amazingates. We know Harvey was fired from Santa Maria College in or around 66 but he seemingly continues to be a english teacher somewhere in cali up until 67/68 when he returns to SF. I don’t believe we ever truly figured out where he was exactly after SM.

It’s a really interesting file with plenty undertones:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fzum9ub4smrdoyl/AADNc1buKtF_6M30gtSSgHjCa/WORDS%20AND%20THEIR%20WICKED%20WAYS?dl=0&subfolder_nav_tracking=1

Hate to say it but there is a drawing of a female dated april 66 with a rather unique looking hair style, it’s not nancy nor do i believe it to be his mother.

I thought I read in that stuff in this thread he got Dot a phone, did I just imagine that, I was scanning fast. I probably just thought i saw that because then it is not like you go get a cell phone lol .

all this HAIR stuff is weird, it might not mean anything about HAIR at all. I have not had time to look. I’m working on some Z stuff right now… but I’ll look at your link in a bit

we still need to find out where that ranch really is and who’s name it is in. that is going to be a huge piece of info (for me anyway)

You are right i recall something about Dot and a phone (call?) could Dot be short for Dorothy? might be Dorothy Millar.

On second thought, nope not Dorothy Millar.

You are right i recall something about Dot and a phone (call?) could Dot be short for Dorothy? might be Dorothy Millar.

On second thought, nope not Dorothy Millar.

so I did see something about Dot and the phone, I need to go back and read that and see what he really means.
dot is short for dorothy… but dot can mean so many things with these dang coders and Harvey is definitely a coder to the max. One of the best I’ve see at this stuff, almost like he is the one who wrote it to begin with. I’ve seen it before a LOT.

ok wait a minute .

Dot.. period, the end
Permanent – the end
let me find that again and read all of that.

dig up everything you have with dot, permanent and let’s figure out what the heck that is

if you shoot someone that can definitely be the end, permanent Period. and depending on the way that is written we should be able to get a CHECK or not to see if it is right.

I just went back through all this stuff about 3 times. This is some crazy stuff. Are you SEEING this.
We need to match the dates up. It’s late and I’m tired but I’m seeing stuff in here I need to look at

_____________________
so making a note to myself… I’ll come back and work on this tomorrow
I just don’t want to forget what I am seeing tonight so jotting it down here
don’t try to make sense out of it, it will confuse you.
I’ll redo this post tomorrow.
__________________

IN HER HAND… ??? HMM very interesting… who is she writing to, why is that historical . … historical .. having to do with the past… CHECK DATES
what historical notes in HER hand. hmmmm ….

you don’t work for your money… double speak..

this is not word for word, I’m just jotting down a note for later
Dot was shot
Dot called and grandma told her not to call
I got Dot a toll phone

what is all this HAIR STUFF

CUT HER HAIR
SET HAIR
Gave dot permanent

travels all over the place
check the reno date with something
check the names of the towns, what do they mean

who cares what someone said 4 years ago, how is that so important? hmmm
check the dates

what is an Italian movie that makes esther so mad all the time

read back through the VA and bank stuff compare to news

HISTORICAL NOTES . what the hell is that a title for.
why is this stuff HISTORICAL??? what NOTES

check the money draw out 50.00 a week
with the front page news
also
remember the SEE note, elsewhere, find that again. zodiac code
match dates tanC (I bend low) funny note
___________________

I’ll clean this up tomorrow and post what I’m thinking. I just don’t want to forget this stuff or have it get lost in my piles of papers.

Harvey F Colliver had address in Pleasanton 1980.
Wonder what year he moved there?
because Zodiac posted his Exorcist, March 13, 1971 to LA Times, letter in Pleasanton.

I’m pretty sure that the 1900 year of birth is an error, because the name and date of birth Dec 7 is right :

Harvey F Colliver
in the U.S. Public Records Index, 1950-1993, Volume 1
Name: Harvey F Colliver
Birth Date: 7 Dec 1900
Phone Number: 462-1423
Address: 444 San Gabriel CT, Pleasanton, CA , 94566-7644 (1980)

Harvey F Colliver had address in Pleasanton 1980.
Wonder what year he moved there?
because Zodiac posted his Exorcist, March 13, 1971 to LA Times, letter in Pleasanton.

I’m pretty sure that he 1900 year of birth is an error, because the name and date of birth Dec 7 is right :

Harvey F Colliver
in the U.S. Public Records Index, 1950-1993, Volume 1
Name: Harvey F Colliver
Birth Date: 7 Dec 1900
Phone Number: 462-1423
Address: 444 San Gabriel CT, Pleasanton, CA , 94566-7644 (1980)

He moved to Pleasanton in 1972.
His birth year is 1925.

Harvey F Colliver had address in Pleasanton 1980.
Wonder what year he moved there?
because Zodiac posted his Exorcist, March 13, 1971 to LA Times, letter in Pleasanton.

I’m pretty sure that he 1900 year of birth is an error, because the name and date of birth Dec 7 is right :

Harvey F Colliver
in the U.S. Public Records Index, 1950-1993, Volume 1
Name: Harvey F Colliver
Birth Date: 7 Dec 1900
Phone Number: 462-1423
Address: 444 San Gabriel CT, Pleasanton, CA , 94566-7644 (1980)

Hi Forest Princess… nice to see you here helping. i don’t know how long I will be on the board as someone banned me a few hours ago, and now I’m back on. LOL
I’d really like to work with you on some of this stuff, and I guarantee you, this stuff relentless has is for real. If you will remember back 17 years ago, and
the following few years, this stuff all connects up also. If you remember the river by Patterson years ago and I kept insisting someone was out there, you
will eventually see the tie here. Of course NO ONE will believe that, but keep an eye out, YOU will see it.

I have tried over and over to message you but it won’t let me, do you have your messages set to where no one can message you?
sorry for posting this here on your post, but I had no other way to "talk" to you, and I’ve been trying for ages to get someone to tell you, but no one
understood what I said.

btw, when you are looking at Harvey, remember FreeBird. remember what was said about his his cousin the zodiac. I’ve lost all of that in my old computer
but still have bits and pieces of it, but knowing YOU, you probably have it all, do a comparison of subject matter with harvey stuff
also remember THE FRAT way back way way, they were on there also. so if you saved any of that stuff, pull that out too. I am also sure you remember the post
by Concerned? 2003… that ties to this.
Forest Princess, we have to find that RANCH of Harveys. I have looked through All the deeds etc, I can’t find one. It either is in someone else’s name or not in stanislaus county
I also did not find it in contra costa. And if you have done Harvey’s genealogy, which I assume you have, if Not I did, I can’t find any relative around there. And I know for a
fact that Ranch with the pine trees is NOT in Patterson. I am GUESSING it is on Mt Diablo or up in Toulumne county, I will not be surprised at all if it is not on mt diablo
but I don’t think it is under the name Marshall. And I could not find it in Del Puerto, although I had guessed it might be, being so much stuff going on back then in Del Puerto
and at that time I thought The Zodiac would have a tie there. I always knew he would have a tie to Patterson, and I always knew he was around Pleasonton and had some kind of
tie to Clayton, so I don’t know who is in Clayton or what the tie is there, but there is one, and I vaguely remember it tied up to the eureka card. I’ve lost a lot of info over the years I had.
anyway, I’ll fill you in as I have time.
loveS.. ME

ps… if I remember correctly you worked on some of the eureka stuff??? I think, maybe that was just me working on that. but at the time everyone thought there was not tie to anything but there was and is.
it tied to stanislaus county and the stine family and that card tied to "concerned" post of 2003. It also tied back to Michigan. and now I have just been shown the Dr Guidini news ad and that definitely is connecting back to Michigan and you should remember that I told you long ago that Zodiac originated out of Michigan, and the feds new it long before anyone ever heard of Zodiac. I don’t believe I told you that because I think at that time we already got separated over whatever that was, but the reason for all of that was someone was going to get HIT and it had to go out there but I could not say that at the time. and I believe it happened and we lost one of our posters over it. ugh. I could not come out and tell you. anyway, history … just if you have any of that old stuff, pull it out and I’ll explain it to you

California was a hotbed for the Ku Klux Klan in the 1960s. Culver City was very racist. This could be a race war scenario here, The police must be holding back on the information. Like Manson, this is about starting a race war.

California was a hotbed for the Ku Klux Klan in the 1960s. Culver City was very racist. This could be a race war scenario here, The police must be holding back on the information. Like Manson, this is about starting a race war.

Cali is STILL a hotbed for the KKK, it is just not as much on the surface at is use to be. Modesto was a REALLY racist place in the 60’s. They were burning crosses in people’s yards there in the 60’s and early to mid 70’s.
Certain sections of town and scattered through modesto(south side, airport, parts of westside, parts of ceres, through Keyes Turlock, you DID not go if you were African American or Hispanic. and vice versa, you had to watch it if you were white and went over into the section of town that was mostly all african american. There were some pretty bad race riots there in the 60’s. Modesto was a really sectioned off town for different races. Some areas you just did not set foot in, and if you were someone who would hang out with people out of your race, you were not safe around your own race once they new it. Unless, of course, it was all about MONEY, then you could walk in and out of any place if you were running guns or dope. But it was strictly business, and a lot of people would not even do that.

HOLMES>>>> you think Manson was trying to start a race war? and why do you think that? just curious. sometimes those gates just swing open and someone needs to close them before the dogs get out or in. Wild dogs are always wanting in your yard, sometimes more so than your’s want out. Manson was more of a hound, drove you nuts howling all the time, but he never really bit. He might sick his other dogs on you though… he was more into dog training, bringing in money with his show dogs. I don’t think he was as much into a race war as people would believe, he was all about his message music. But he probably saw the race wars coming. He was not a stupid man, much smarter than people think, he saw things that other people did not and he too, definitely told it in a weird way through his music. He managed a lot of people so he had to be on his toes and always have his eyes open to know what they were doing, if not, He would have been dead ages ago. His war was with those who did not like his music. He had a message and he wanted someone to hear it, but people kept laughing at him and not listening. had people listened, we probably would not have seen his world blow apart.

I read more on Harvey last night, and I’m BEGINNING to understand his ABSTRACTION "CODE".
I don’t even think he is talking about what he is talking about. I can see it all through his stuff since minute one, but I could not really figure out exactly what he was doing,
but I’m BEGINNING to understand the whole ABORTION/ABSTRACTION thing in a different context. I don’t have it figured out enough to really explain it correctly, but
I’m getting there.

kind of a little bit of explanation.

I think he is keeping tract of murders in all of this gobbly -gook of his. Although it has a "surface" meaning,
I think underneath in another "layer" this is his way of keeping track of who is dead etc.

Abortion = murder, and because abortion is acceptable, so is all murder(his thinking)
women can murder = abortion, but if men kill it is illegal murder.
Nonetheless, murder is murder and so is abortion, so the equal one another in his eyes

Also harvey believe that Rape is just sex and that MALE SEX act is ART
He believes Female sex is prostitution.

so if you kind of equate the words to have another meaning that surface meanings, I’m beginning to see his CODE emerge.

The Abstraction is to HIDE the meanings of the words, this is why he says Words HAVE NO MEANING, because they do not mean what they say, therefore, if you read them on the surface, it means NOTHING.
He also says "Never say what you mean, never mean what you say"(maybe not exact but pretty much word for word like that. That is the universal rule for Coding.
All throughout his doodles and writings he will tell you A= this, B= that, etc . or A – R = blah blah etc. So he has this algebraic system going on as well. And that is a very good way of substituting letters for whole words,
which is a "kind of" shorthand(if you will).

The whole HAIR thing … Hair is strength and when you cut is(like Samson) you get WEAK, you are WEARING DOWN… I think when he is referring to "cutting hair" he is weakening the person.
He says he uses words to wear people down so he can control them. He knows the power or words, probably more so than anyone but a few people I have met in my entire life, and I’ve met
many who use words. Harvey knows how to manipulate and BRAINWASH with words. I think he would use the power of words to try to brainwash people into doing what he wanted, and possibly even
to the point of having them help him or cover up what HE was doing…

It is going to take me a little while to make a "dictionary" of his "code" words and symbols, but he definitely has them and he USES them. He’s a total control freak, and if he can’t get you under control, he probably kills you.

He is definitely into WORD MAGIC and not in a good way. Once we can figure out his "coding system" it makes much more sense what he is doing and saying and drawing and writing about. It’s a COMPLEX system, one of the most complex I have seen in some ways. One of the reasons is he uses MATH and ART mixed in, and that makes it hard. All that Math scribbling is more code. We really need someone who is good at trigonometry to go through all of that. I can SEE it but I’m not that good at doing it. he definitely is using trig… I do believe he is probably working out RADIANS as well, but again, I too slow at working on that MATH because I just have never learned it. I could learn it, but I don’t want to take the time if someone else can glance at that stuff and see it quickly. I see the MATH formulas for it, but I don’t want to be PLOTTING all this stuff out because I just don’t have a background in doing that. but if someone who does have the background were to look at those numbers and formulas, and plot them, we might be very surprised at where they locate.

The other thing I see Harvey doing is CREATING this immensely complicated coding system that takes forever to create. I can see where he has been working on it and at times he will make a note… " that does not work", and he changes things around. He’s also got some "routes" going on that he lines up with math so you are moving and following exactly where you need to go, much like the 340 works. I have not determined enough of that yet to know if it works the same way, but it is looking like it at first glance. He also "shifts" the alphabet numerically, but in a complex way

the question is… who is harvey writing this code for? himself? or someone else? or the government?

Okay, this thread was just brought to my attention today(I am not on here very much anymore)
But I’ll play along and post this(hope it hasn’t been brought up already)but this could make this guy a suspect in Domingos/Edwards(if it’s the same guy)

For what it’s worth, this guy lived in Pleasanton, Z mailed a letter from there, and I still think these crimes may be Zodiac:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=21

By the way, no Collivers listed in Riverside 65-66 or Vallejo 69 directories

Anyone see this article?

Some great finds morf. I think the earliest we can put Harvey in Santa Maria is September of 1963. That’s the start of the school semester though so if he was working there at that time he would have already moved there before then. There is a letter or note by his wife where she spoke about getting a job, or maybe it was a house, in Lompoc.

LOL, and a Gilbert and Sullivan opera to boot.

Google Chumash Indians. They have pictographs on wikipedia. They have Zodiac circle cross symbols all over them. The have Pine Mountain Club there. It used to be a ranch until they developed it in 1967-1971. Harvey lived not to far from there. He must have used their language in his coded writings. Just like the Code Talkers during WWll.