Sit back and think about this whole mess. It reeks of LSD and tripping people doing these things. Slaves in paradise, villains in hooded costumes, victims with histories of drug offenses, dripping pen cards, cryptic nonsensical letters, etc. . Is this the normal mainstream behavior or a drug induced malstroem of insanity? Hartnell was going to a small community college, most likely to become exempted from the draft. Yet he drove a brand new Volkswagen. He was not from money so how did he manage a brand new Karma Ghia? All together this is an extremely bizarre case.

it was the late 60s/early 70s. even normal mainstream behavior was comparatively weird. you have a theory. you have no evidence to back it up other than it seems like it could make sense, but let’s pretend you’re right – why would zodiac go on a letter-writing campaign if he’s a low level drug offender killing people to settle drug debts? why draw attention to himself?

Sit back and think about this whole mess. It reeks of LSD and tripping people doing these things. Slaves in paradise, villains in hooded costumes, victims with histories of drug offenses, dripping pen cards, cryptic nonsensical letters, etc. . Is this the normal mainstream behavior or a drug induced malstroem of insanity? Hartnell was going to a small community college, most likely to become exempted from the draft. Yet he drove a brand new Volkswagen. He was not from money so how did he manage a brand new Karma Ghia? All together this is an extremely bizarre case.

it was the late 60s/early 70s. even normal mainstream behavior was comparatively weird. you have a theory. you have no evidence to back it up other than it seems like it could make sense, but let’s pretend you’re right – why would zodiac go on a letter-writing campaign if he’s a low level drug offender killing people to settle drug debts? why draw attention to himself?

Anyone who has ever been around someone tripping on acid would know it is highly unlikely Zodiac was under the influence at least while committing the attacks and writing the letters.

I am a fan of the television show Dragnet. After Gannon retired to Pismo Beach and got his health back eating Pismo Clams, I dearly wanted to go there to eat the giant mollusks, but because of the Zodiac Killer I never went to California. I went to San Diego because the Zodiac stayed out of Southern California. I may go to Pismo Beach next year.

hmmm, I probably not even post on this thread… but after reading all of this, I am wondering… what in the holy hell LMAO

ok, let’s start over here, because .. (1) I have no idea why this thread was bumped for me, and how you came up with any of this stuff… hopefully, not from me LOL

now if you want to know all about LSD etc, and the times back then etc, I really can tell you all about that, but I don’t know what you are thinking, but it’s not making sense to me. Can you explain please.

I believe amazinggrace is a male. He knows the lyrics to City of New Orleans by Arlo Guthrie. That isn’t a woman music.

haha, I totally love Arlo and if you listen to this video, you can see he also has the KEYS . haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUa7_T7 … qw&index=2

sorry, could not help it LOL. it is a great video though. but that was the 60’s haha.
it is any wonder The Zodiac communications are the way they are ? JK

They put the LSD which is water soluble, in waster based ink and print sheets of blotter paper with postage stamp sized LSD dosed pictures on it. Because Colliver had the small printing press it is likely he was involved in the multi million dollar LSD trade that was in place in San Francisco during the late 1960s. Maybe these kids got whacked for a drug deal gone bad. There was heavy players in that racket back then. All the people killed were young people in their 20s. A cab driver in San Francisco would certainly be involved in the drug trade. Cabbies know everything going on. Maybe Stine owed people money. The victims of these crimes look like drug dealers to me. One kid had a brand new Karman Ghia car. How does a college student get a new car when he goes to school full time? These murders could be over drugs and the whole case is a ploy to cover up the true nature of these crimes.

LSD was no longer good acid by the time window pane and blotter was out. it was full of garbage crap. by the time the sunshines and micro-dots came out the stuff was crap. You might as well have guzzled down some rat poisoned laced crap, then you had mescaline, STP, MDA and all the other crap mixed in. Owsley was a good acid and so was the pink rosetta and green avacado coming out of berkeley, I knew the cook. it was made off the owsley recipe.
the old sugar cubes were crazy as they dotted it and eye droppered it and the dose was off the chart. then they are the black 12-way acid that left a guy up in del puerto making a freeway with his hand for 3 days because he wanted a short cut to get to the monterey pop festival. I don’t think he ever got there haha. Then the old bathtub acid cough drops. those were as crazily dosed as the sugar cubes. Yep, I’m a wild child of the 60’s.

now why in the world do you think that harvey was printing up blotter acid on his printing press?

you see the whole world changed in the 60’s. The transition from the 50’s-to the 60’s was like landing on another planet, especially in California, and believe it or not, Wichita KS of all places had it’s own crazy culture as well. and then of course the village ny … yes it was a strange time. so for THE ZODIAC to emerge during all of this craziness, it no surprise to me. The Zodiac could surface and not even be noticed.

we also had all these really radical factions out there… and I was not a peace and love person so I was around a LOT of different radical factions…. most ALL of them. so I really do have a lot of knowledge of the times from just about every perspective. maybe not the way people read about it, but from the inside looking out. And maybe it was not that way for everyone out there, but I know what I personally lived, and I was out on the street since I was 11. I know longer lived at home… at 11 I started living on the streets, and of course most the people out there then were a lot older than me. So yah, I saw a lot.

Sit back and think about this whole mess. It reeks of LSD and tripping people doing these things. Slaves in paradise, villains in hooded costumes, victims with histories of drug offenses, dripping pen cards, cryptic nonsensical letters, etc. . Is this the normal mainstream behavior or a drug induced malstroem of insanity? Hartnell was going to a small community college, most likely to become exempted from the draft. Yet he drove a brand new Volkswagen. He was not from money so how did he manage a brand new Karma Ghia? All together this is an extremely bizarre case.

yes it was a crazy time for some of the counter culture factions, for sure it was. but still the communications of The Zodiac case really do make sense. And there are rules for those communications, so they communications however crazy they SOUND on the surface, sound totally different in the layers in which they are woven. So whoever wrote the communications, no matter how comical they sound, they make sense. The weaver just had a strange sense of humor. Maybe that is why I laugh so much. I get it. not that I think it is funny people died, I don’t… but all the rest of it, yes, it is hilarious

but what is more strange to me is this… there are people out here doing the very same thing LOL… And I see it… LOL

These people could have been getting shaken down because of drug dealing. They didn’t pay and they got hurt really bad. That is very common. The two victims are not going to implicate themselves so they said they didn’t know the Zodiac.But maybe they knew him quite well. So they lied and said it was a crazy shooter that came upon them. The idea that these were random killings is incorrect I believe. I think the people who got shot were associated with zodiac in dealing heavy acid and cannabis. As I mentioned, the police thought so too.

I agree with you on one point here Holmes. I don’t think any of the KNOWN killings were random at all. I also think there are a ton more out there.

Sit back and think about this whole mess. It reeks of LSD and tripping people doing these things. Slaves in paradise, villains in hooded costumes, victims with histories of drug offenses, dripping pen cards, cryptic nonsensical letters, etc. . Is this the normal mainstream behavior or a drug induced malstroem of insanity? Hartnell was going to a small community college, most likely to become exempted from the draft. Yet he drove a brand new Volkswagen. He was not from money so how did he manage a brand new Karma Ghia? All together this is an extremely bizarre case.

it was the late 60s/early 70s. even normal mainstream behavior was comparatively weird. you have a theory. you have no evidence to back it up other than it seems like it could make sense, but let’s pretend you’re right – why would zodiac go on a letter-writing campaign if he’s a low level drug offender killing people to settle drug debts? why draw attention to himself?

Anyone who has ever been around someone tripping on acid would know it is highly unlikely Zodiac was under the influence at least while committing the attacks and writing the letters.

I don’t really want to disagree with you, however, because there are many different opinions in this case and we use those different opinions to make individual decisions, I guess I’ll post this, but know disrespect to your opinion, but I have a totally opposite one. I’ve been around a TON of people on acid and they are very capable of doing murders like that, and in my opinion whoever did those murders very much could have been on acid or any other drug for that matter; not saying they were, but they certainly could have been(my opinion). without getting too revealing out here, I think I have a pretty good idea of what WHACKY people can do.

as far as the writing, why could they not be on acid and writing the communications, most of our great musician’s of the time wrote magical lyrics because they were on acid. it just makes your neurons fire all over and pick up on stuff in an unusual way, it does not make you stupid

but then of course there is LSD-25 and there is acid made of who knows what. but still I’ve been around a lot of people on both. A lot of us were taking acid before it was even illegal.

another example you don’t think Charlie had a code? he was capable of writing one and to this day most all of them do. and of course, most of them were on acid, and if you ever have talked to Leslie, she is an extremely intelligent person. Now patty, well she was still lost in la la land last I saw her, which was ages ago, back around 85… and of course susan atkins was just well, she was just … needed to have the bark beat off of her. i guess I don’t know any other way to describe her.

and then we have band members of the time into hermetics, the golden dawn, the teachings of crowley etc. these musicians were not crazy, but many were on acid and involved in different belief systems,… could they have killed someone, of course they could have… could they be able to code while on acid, of course they could have

and don’t forget all the other factions out there at the time… the panthers, all the mc groups, the old mexican mafia, AIM, the AB, and all the war protesters, and of course some of our vets then came home mean as f…. and capable of anything(no disrespect at all to them, as many were my close people. in fact, people from all these groups I knew. I’m not saying anything bad about them as a whole etc, I’m just saying there are some of them who could definitely be on drugs and still coding and still killing. It happened all the time

and now just so you know, I won’t ever talk specifics about anything I know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwtdhWltSIg

I said USD not LSD

I didn’t come up with it i was asking amazingates what the hell she was talking about in one of her riddles.

I only "riddle" as you call it when people start "riddling" to me. or to someone else and I see it. just because you can’t understand me, does not mean I can’t understand others . I do.

what amazes me is this… there have been people out here CODING on the z forums for ages. I saw it way back on the irc boards of Tom’s and it still goes on. And I have to wonder why, this case is not solved yet being it seems there are a lot of people who know how to code who have been on these forums for years. So why all the "chatter" all these years. Well I won’t say what I think about that either. but I watch it. and then I see the other "chatterers" too. and at times I understand that more that the other "chatterers" do. And I’ve had the authorities get ahold of me before because of it, so anymore I don’t talk to where anyone can understand me, other than the people I’m chattering with… so if you don’t understand it and think I’m nuts well all the better for me LOL

perhaps holmes is not so far off in thinking maybe SOMEONE twisted these cases around to look like they are something else so they can CHATTER about other things???? now lets blame it on drug dealers who did not get paid haha okay … well I guess that seems more sensible than some guy in a costume and crazy communications killing random people…. seems like any time someone comes along and says something that really does make sense they are basically told they are crazy. hmmm, seen it happen for years.

so what will be the next theory? well I have one, but I think it would go over like a lead balloon, and no I am not talking about zeppelin

and as for harvey which this thread is about. He codes also. so does nancy. and once I get through all of this stuff, I’ll show you some of this stuff.
I know several people who do this. I’m one of them. We are not all dead.

some of us just have a head full of rocks and some of us are just the crazy diamonds who shine on… and a few of us… well we just are lost souls swimmin’ in our own fish bowls.

try looking for donna lass up on the very very old shack up there, whitch is not there anymore … blue angels. not the one down town they use to have a tiny little shack up there on the top, by the pines witch is spine… the ridge. I’ll work it all out for you when I get more time.

Lucille?

1273UFCA
UP#5848

DEMOGRAPHICS
Age: 15 – 25 years old
Race: Asian
Sex: Female
Height: 5’2 (62 inches)
Weight: 113 pounds
Postmortem interval: Recent
State of remains: Recognisable face

CIRCUMSTANCES
Date: October 1, 1976
Location: Southern shore of Lake Merced, San Francisco, CA
Background: Man walking his dog along the shore of Lake Merced behind a pumping station noticed a small animal and walked over to get a closer look at it. When he got closer, he noticed a hand sticking out of the sand. LE was called and they unearthed the body of a young Asian woman.

PHYSICAL
Hair: Dark brown, shoulder-length or slightly longer
Other marks: Pierced ears

CLOTHING
Clothes: White sweatshirt/hoodie. Halter-type blouse with buttons on length of back and blue floral print on top half of the shirt. Size 12 Wrangler jeans. White panties and knee-length nylon pantyhose.
Jewelry: Three thin straps of leather tied to form a ring (left 4th finger), white metal Timex watch w/ crystal intact (left wrist), small gold-colored stud earrings (ears), small gold owl w/ a single link gold chain (in pocket).

IDENTIFIERS
Dentals: Available and entered
DNA: Samples submitted – Tests complete
Fingerprints: Available elsewhere

“Lucille” incident aborted.

It’s mental gymnastics, but the entire Chichi adventure is bizarre it occured early 1976 and she was a young asian who reminded Harvey of Esther.