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A PALM PRINT HOLD BACK?

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(@mike_r)
Posts: 838
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

Hi-

In 2007, former SFPD Criminalist Alan Keel told me something shocking out of the blue. He said that one of the 1974 Zodiac letters is a forgery and that this was discovered through the presence of DNA on that letter that matched the 1978 letter. I wanted to scream when he said that he could not recall which letter it was! So he has left me to ponder this question for over six years.

This past week, I think I finally made a breakthrough in reasoning and am ready to put forth a theory on what happened (assuming that he is correct and that there is a 1974 forgery!).

Susan Morton, who is the face of SFPD when it comes to palm prints, wrote a 1986 article in the journal, Fingerprint Whorld, entitled "A Hand From the Old West." This article speaks about a palm print found on a stagecoach in an robbery from 1916. So the analysis and appreciation of palm prints long predates the Z case.

Here is what I believe is the most likely scenario:

At the time Keel left SFPD, only one 1974 letter had been analyzed for DNA. And cells were found on it, in contrast to may of the other letters, as per the report that leaked in 2001. This letter is the so-called Exorcist letter. So this letter seems to be the logical choice as the forged letter. But there is one catch: As a Z researcher with a suspect, I have always been cautious about making definitive statements about this letter as a forgery because I know what happens on MB’s. I would be accused to trying to "bury" a piece of evidence in the palm print that I had *somehow* learned had been compared negatively to my suspect (speaking theoretically–I know of no such comparison even though ironically I personally attempted to develop his palm print from several signed fly pages of books I had acquired of his over the years). I’d be laughed off the MB for making negative statements about this letter and the "sacred palm print." Surely, my suspect was eliminated and now I was turning my attention away from the DNA to the palm print, etc.

But here is a possible scenario: The palm print was recognizable as such soon as the letter was treated with Ninhydrin in 1974. This long predates DNA testing. So for years, SFPD felt it had a key piece of evidence. Maybe they didn’t wonder much why Z wrote twenty other letters and seemingly remembered his gloves for all of those. But then in the late 1990s, DNA testing proved that this letter was actually a forgery and that it had the same DNA as the forged 1978 letter.

So what to do? Instead of telling the public about this, they may have decided they had something useful on their hands: a hold back. Only the killer would know that he didn’t write that letter. So they have continued to allow the public to believe that is Z’s palm print and if someone ever wished to confess and said that he wrote that letter, they’d know they had a false confession. There are precious few hold backs in this case (one of them apparently the DMV letter), so they are precious commodities.

That is just my opinion based on the state of DNA testing when Keel left SFPD. I am assuming that he did not learn about this new testing after he lost his SFPD clearance. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe he did learn about some other letter having identical DNA to the 1978 letter after he left the Department. But this theory explains the known facts at the time Keel left, as reported in the 2001 (2002?) chart. And that is all I can do at this point, since Keel is not talking to me anymore. Maybe someone else can try calling him at Forensic Science Associates in Fairfield to see if they can even ascertain if the forged letter had been tested during his tenure.

This letter, like the 1978 letter, bridged a long gap in "Z communications" and came on the heels of a huge event in the Zebra case. While Z may have had a motive to keep his name in the news after the Zebra murders, so too may someone who had his own vested interest in keeping the story on the front pages have had a motive to forge this letter.

Mike

Mike Rodelli

Author, The Hunt for Zodiac; 3.9 stars on Amazon and
In The Shadow of Mt. Diablo: The Shocking True Identity of the Zodiac Killer, a second edition in print format. 4.3 Amazon stars and great Editorial reviews. Twitter:@mikerodelli

 
Posted : November 10, 2013 8:32 pm
(@dag-maclugh)
Posts: 794
Prominent Member
 

Just a thought: Many have wondered why Z ceased mailing letters to the press. Had he died, perhaps? Certainly, that is a possibility. On the other hand. he was a publicity hound. Could it be that he received so much publicity that his ego was sated, and he retired to a scrapbook filled with newspaper articles? Which of course doesn’t mean he retired from killing people. He may have come to consider himself so accomplished in this respect that he no longer needed negative appreciation.

 
Posted : November 10, 2013 10:12 pm
morf13
(@morf13)
Posts: 7527
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Mike, alot of good info, thanks. FWIW, I personally think the Exorcist letter is real

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : November 10, 2013 10:26 pm
(@mike_r)
Posts: 838
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Topic starter
 

Hi-

Well, so did the handwriting guys but DNA apparently proved that ONE of the 1974 letters was a fake and like I said, this one is the only one that was tested for DNA ay the time Keel left AND cells were found on it. Just trying to account for all the facts. Theories need to be proven…so I am not saying this is gospel.

Mike

Mike Rodelli

Author, The Hunt for Zodiac; 3.9 stars on Amazon and
In The Shadow of Mt. Diablo: The Shocking True Identity of the Zodiac Killer, a second edition in print format. 4.3 Amazon stars and great Editorial reviews. Twitter:@mikerodelli

 
Posted : November 10, 2013 10:50 pm
traveller1st
(@traveller1st)
Posts: 3583
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FWIW I think the exorcist letter WAS written by the same person that penned the others, the CJB letters included. Primarily by the handwriting but also the syntax. That being said, what Mike R has presented needs to be considered and factored in. There are questions we need answers to and, if not definitive, at the very least, might bring some closure. Nail all the hatches, or not, as it were.


I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.

 
Posted : November 10, 2013 11:29 pm
(@mike_r)
Posts: 838
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

Hi-

That is correct. The answer is out there and is apparently held by SFPD. I have had contacts there over time but nobody has told me anything about a forgery. I keep trying. Maybe Keel is mistaken or doesn’t know what he is talking about. But he said what he said and is in a position to know what he is talking about, so this possibility must be pursued to its conclusion.

Mike

Mike Rodelli

Author, The Hunt for Zodiac; 3.9 stars on Amazon and
In The Shadow of Mt. Diablo: The Shocking True Identity of the Zodiac Killer, a second edition in print format. 4.3 Amazon stars and great Editorial reviews. Twitter:@mikerodelli

 
Posted : November 10, 2013 11:49 pm
Tahoe27
(@tahoe27)
Posts: 5315
Member Moderator
 

Hi-

….This letter, like the 1978 letter, bridged a long gap in "Z communications" and came on the heels of a huge event in the Zebra case. While Z may have had a motive to keep his name in the news after the Zebra murders, so too may someone who had his own vested interest in keeping the story on the front pages have had a motive to forge this letter.

Mike

Whoever it was who forged the ’78 letter did a fine job. To this day there are those who doubt it. Someone had knowledge of not only writing style, but tone, etc. It could very well be this same person had these same skills in ’74. It is almost too perfectly laid out. I’m also reconsidering the Citizen letter.


…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep. L.A. Times, 1969

 
Posted : November 11, 2013 12:57 am
morf13
(@morf13)
Posts: 7527
Member Admin
 

Hi-

Well, so did the handwriting guys but DNA apparently proved that ONE of the 1974 letters was a fake and like I said, this one is the only one that was tested for DNA ay the time Keel left AND cells were found on it. Just trying to account for all the facts. Theories need to be proven…so I am not saying this is gospel.

Mike

I would have to see some documentation of it to fully consider it

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : November 11, 2013 4:53 am
Tahoe27
(@tahoe27)
Posts: 5315
Member Moderator
 

Hi-

Well, so did the handwriting guys but DNA apparently proved that ONE of the 1974 letters was a fake and like I said, this one is the only one that was tested for DNA ay the time Keel left AND cells were found on it. Just trying to account for all the facts. Theories need to be proven…so I am not saying this is gospel.

Mike

I would have to see some documentation of it to fully consider it

If the Exorcist letter could be proven a fake Zodiac letter, it would be a HUGE reality check for some handwriting analysts. Might give reason to study more the attributes of fakers.

Until then, I think most agree the Exorcist letter will remain on the "confirmed" list. Considering the DNA testing…it is for sure something to ponder.


…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep. L.A. Times, 1969

 
Posted : November 11, 2013 11:14 pm
(@anonymous)
Posts: 1772
Noble Member
 

Are we to assume then that the so called partial Zodiac DNA sample does not match this DNA found on the Exorcist letter? Which sample are they comparing suspects to?
How do we know that Zodiac didn’t write these letters and ask someone else, perhaps a sidekick type of buddy, to lick the envelopes? I know the palm prints from Napa to the Exorcist letter to the cab are not a match right? Which witch is which? Do you have matching DNA from two "forgeries". Matching DNA on two letters? I find this compelling.
By the way, even on the partial DNA SFDP has, if someone does not match the four markers, they cannot be a match to the entire profile. They must at least match the four Alleles. There would be no way to definitively to say, "Yes we have our man" though with just four markers matching.

 
Posted : November 11, 2013 11:31 pm
Quicktrader
(@quicktrader)
Posts: 2598
Famed Member
 

I don’t see any letter proven to be a forgery, rather like the handwriting belonging to each other…so imo the dna might be Z’s and in fact should be compared to other cases, such as CJB, if possible.

QT

*ZODIACHRONOLOGY*

 
Posted : November 12, 2013 1:59 am
Paul_Averly
(@paul_averly)
Posts: 857
Prominent Member
 

There are rumors about Toschi forging the Exorcist letter:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/seri … ac/28.html

and rumors have even suggested that he was identified as the author by DNA testing in the 1990s… indicating that David Toschi had authored one or more ‘Zodiac’ letters

 
Posted : November 12, 2013 3:04 am
Tahoe27
(@tahoe27)
Posts: 5315
Member Moderator
 

There are rumors about Toschi forging the Exorcist letter:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/seri … ac/28.html

and rumors have even suggested that he was identified as the author by DNA testing in the 1990s… indicating that David Toschi had authored one or more ‘Zodiac’ letters

When you consider the comments about the 1978 letter. It does make me wonder. They flat out say "DNA SAMPLE OBTAINED/NOT AUTHENTIC ZODIAC LETTER"

Sure sounds like they had someone to compare it to. How can they flat out say this otherwise? (I still can’t help but think of Maupin being involved somehow)

http://www.zodiackiller.com/SFPDDNA.html


…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep. L.A. Times, 1969

 
Posted : November 12, 2013 10:20 am
(@nachtsider)
Posts: 367
Reputable Member
 

Sure sounds like they had someone to compare it to. How can they flat out say this otherwise? (I still can’t help but think of Maupin being involved somehow)

http://www.zodiackiller.com/SFPDDNA.html

Here’s one possibility. The DNA was female, possibly from an accomplice of Maupin’s (I maintain that he was behind the 1978 letter in an attempt to smear Toschi).

 
Posted : November 12, 2013 10:29 am
Tahoe27
(@tahoe27)
Posts: 5315
Member Moderator
 

Sure sounds like they had someone to compare it to. How can they flat out say this otherwise? (I still can’t help but think of Maupin being involved somehow)

http://www.zodiackiller.com/SFPDDNA.html

Here’s one possibility. The DNA was female, possibly from an accomplice of Maupin’s (I maintain that he was behind the 1978 letter in an attempt to smear Toschi).

Female DNA. Could certainly be the case! It makes sense…they were flat out positive it was not an authentic letter. Good one Nacht!

When you consider this was going on at the time….I think people will understand why you and I (and others) consider Maupin and/or friends a likely source:

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=163


…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep. L.A. Times, 1969

 
Posted : November 12, 2013 10:55 am
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