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Found it!! By Fire, By Gun, By Knife, By Rope

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traveller1st
(@traveller1st)
Posts: 3583
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Think I’d rather face Z than the ginger doll on the last page lol.


I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.

 
Posted : December 30, 2013 10:00 pm
(@anonymous)
Posts: 1772
Noble Member
 

Another thing that I like about this comic book as a likely source of the Zodiac Killer’s inspiration:

There is another story starting on page 26 about a bad guy who is a genius of disguise. I have often wondered if Z fancied himself another "Man of 1,000 faces".

G

 
Posted : December 30, 2013 10:04 pm
morf13
(@morf13)
Posts: 7527
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This comic was published in June/July 1952. Question is, did Z buy it back when it was brand new in 1952,and hold onto it, or did he buy it used in the 1960’s from a comic book store,etc? Maybe we could get a better idea of his age. I tend to think that MOST comic book readers are younger.

Also, if I wanted to buy a used comic book in 1969 or 1970 in Vallejo,where would I get it from? Was there a direct comic book store in Vallejo?

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : December 30, 2013 10:37 pm
(@entropy)
Posts: 491
Honorable Member
 

Oh good Lord… Rope AND Water? I’m going to be having nightmares now. Thanks a lot, G. The 1952 publication date actually fits quite nicely if this were perhaps something that a fledgling Z encountered as a child or adolescent. If he were 25-30, for instance, in 1969 he would have been 8-13 when this was published. Total speculation, of course, but I certainly don’t think the age of the publication works against the idea of it being a possible influence.

 
Posted : December 30, 2013 10:38 pm
(@anonymous)
Posts: 1772
Noble Member
 

This comic was published in June/July 1952. Question is, did Z buy it back when it was brand new in 1952,and hold onto it, or did he buy it used in the 1960’s from a comic book store,etc? Maybe we could get a better idea of his age. I tend to think that MOST comic book readers are younger.

Also, if I wanted to buy a used comic book in 1969 or 1970 in Vallejo,where would I get it from? Was there a direct comic book store in Vallejo?

I remember kids going from door to door with a bundle of comics asking other kids to trade.

Perhaps there were comparable practices in California.

There were usually a fair number of significantly older comics in circulation, probably from older siblings, and maybe even from parents.

G

 
Posted : December 30, 2013 10:45 pm
morf13
(@morf13)
Posts: 7527
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ANother thing I just spotted(sorry if somebody pointed it out already), at this page of the comic-
http://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=21570

It mentions ‘LADY DOOM’, and Zodiac wrote you are DOOMED in the Halloween card.

Also, ‘THE DEATH WHEEL’ , sounds similar to the ‘THE DEATH MACHINE’ as described by zodiac

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : December 30, 2013 11:09 pm
Seagull
(@seagull)
Posts: 2309
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Yard sales and secondhand stores could be another source to buy the comic. Some people are packrats, too, some parents save all of their kids things.

www.santarosahitchhikermurders.com

 
Posted : December 30, 2013 11:27 pm
Welsh Chappie
(@welsh-chappie)
Posts: 1538
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Very impressive T, good find. The character on the page is dressed from head to toe in red clothing. Red Phantom inspiration possibly?

"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.

 
Posted : December 30, 2013 11:54 pm
Tahoe27
(@tahoe27)
Posts: 5315
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Topic starter
 

ANother thing I just spotted(sorry if somebody pointed it out already), at this page of the comic-
http://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=21570

It mentions ‘LADY DOOM’, and Zodiac wrote you are DOOMED in the Halloween card.

Also, ‘THE DEATH WHEEL’ , sounds similar to the ‘THE DEATH MACHINE’ as described by zodiac

I mention the Lady Doom & "you are doomed" in my first post. :)

I actually downloaded this via the same site last night…after I found the cover. Another thing I found interesting is the Red Ryder advertisement in the back. These were both popular comics at the time and it wouldn’t surprised me if the symbol on the front WAS influenced by that cattle brand. Doesn’t have to mean a thing necessarily. He could have just liked it. That is how I came across this cover…looking for that Red Ryder cattle brand.

Morf–you asked earlier where I stood in regards to Zodiac writing it. My opinion has not changed.


…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep. L.A. Times, 1969

 
Posted : December 30, 2013 11:56 pm
Tahoe27
(@tahoe27)
Posts: 5315
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Topic starter
 

Very impressive T, good find. The character on the page is dressed from head to toe in red clothing. Red Phantom inspiration possibly?

Thx Chappie. I was pretty stoked when I found it. It HAS to be the influence behind the HC card.

I know a couple of others have mentioned the possible Red Phantom connection and while the word "red" seems to be a red flag, I tend to think the Red Phantom writing was simply referring to the being angry "red with rage" and writing anonymously "phantom"…just like Count Marco does. To me, the author of the Red Phantom letter states clearly why they sign he letter they way they did.


…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep. L.A. Times, 1969

 
Posted : December 31, 2013 12:02 am
(@anonymous)
Posts: 1772
Noble Member
 


It HAS to be the influence behind the HC card.

I agree. The fact that the front cover had the specific words By Fire, By Gun, By Knife, By Rope STRONGLY suggests that he had the comic in front of him when he prepared the Halloween Card.

Many other elements strongly resonate of Z-isms as well. If this is just coincidence, then it is taking Zynchronicity into a whole new dimension. It may not be proven, but it would be wise to assume it is true as a working hypothesis to see where that leads.

The next question, imo, is whether or not this little comic book can help us squeeze out more clues. Was this just an artifact of Z’s fantasy world, or is it a hiding place for his clews? Did he consider it possible somebody would spot the cover of a comic book that was old in his day? Certainly not impossible, imo.

[Tahoe, I think you deserve credit for an A-1, top-notch, bona fide, genuine Z-discovery. Absolutely brilliant work!! Just wish I knew how you found it.

All hail Tahoe!]

G

 
Posted : December 31, 2013 12:48 am
(@entropy)
Posts: 491
Honorable Member
 

Wow,great find TAHOE! :o

Not bad for a ‘coffee clutch housewife’ :lol:

I’m only 99% sold on the idea as an influence but it deserves to be pursued to the furthest extent.

I have no idea what a "coffee clutch housewife" is but some of the best researchers I’ve ever worked with probably fit that description.

Score one for the anonymous housewife posse… :twisted:

 
Posted : December 31, 2013 1:02 am
(@theforeigner)
Posts: 821
Prominent Member
 

Absolutely excellent find Tahoe !!!

This Tim Holt / Frank Bolle comic is, as far as I know, the ONLY finding ever where ALL 4;
By Knife
By Gun
By Rope
By Fire

are present within the same image/text 8-)

And by the way Tim Holt created both a caracter nicknamed "Red Mask" and another one "Black Phantom" so Zodiac’s "Red Phantom" could IMO indeed have been a creativ mix Zodiac made up based on those two Tim Holt caracters.

Personaly I belive it is indeed VERY possible that this is wherefrom Zodiac got his idea of By Knife, By Gun, By Rope, By Fire!

.

And concerning wheter Zodiac was some kind of a comic nerd, and/or inspired by comics, It made me think of somthing
that was said by radio host Bill Jensen:

Radio show:
Shadowpulp 5-8-13
Wednesday at 11:02pm on TradioV Los Angeles

About Zodiac by Bill Jensen:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/32577715

We´r going to be talking about, possibly America’s, at least America’s most famous unsolved serial killer; The Zodiac killer
And this guy was really particular interesting.
By the way my name is Bill Jensen.
The crazy thing about The Zodiac killer, is that we have so much evidence from him.
And he really was…almost, if he wasen’t so evil, he was almost a satirical version of a supervillain.
He had his own name; "The Zodiac".
He had a logo, which very few you know serial killers have, logos.
He had a costume, which he wore during the Lake Berryessa attack.
He sent puzzles, like The Riddler would, to the police and the newspapers.
He like to taunt the police.
He had his own catchphrase.
He wanted fans to wear his logo on buttons on their lapels.
And even the Task force, that met to try to solve it, met in a place called "The Hall Of Justice".

You know it would be funny if it wasen’t so wicked.

I also find the cattle symbol from the Red Ryder advertisement VERY interesting due to that, that symbol is the only time I´v seen a symbol that really match the Halloween card symbol.

All together, thise latest findings might very well point to that Zodiac was living in, and inspired by, some kind of sick comic fantasy world.

Hi, english is not my first language so please bear with me :)

 
Posted : December 31, 2013 2:43 am
(@theforeigner)
Posts: 821
Prominent Member
 

Here is Frank Bolle’s handwriting (the person who drew the comic Tahoe found):

http://www.buycomicbooksonline.com/ebx2 … 3r-004.JPG

Hi, english is not my first language so please bear with me :)

 
Posted : December 31, 2013 3:48 am
BuckwheatFlowers
(@buckwheatflowers)
Posts: 172
Estimable Member
 

Interesting. Nice find.

 
Posted : December 31, 2013 3:53 am
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